Here is something that came up recently that I thought might be worth throwing out for discussion. It's an old and persistent topic that usually results in a lot of speculation, opinion, and different theories; but I believe the answer is almost always the same, and always simple.
We get it a lot. Western Guy calls up Olga for advice because he can't reconcile the behaviour of a Russian Woman with whom he had been corresponding with how she acted during their in-person meeting. Western Guy admits either directly or indirectly that he "has feelings" or "has fallen for the Russian Woman.
Russian Woman was warm in her correspondence and invited Western Guy to visit, but when Western Guy arrived Russian Woman acted like a different person. Cold and offish. Russian woman tells Western Guy that Russian women always act like this - that they don't readily show their feelings unless they deem it "important to them" (to the Russian Woman).
Because of her actions during the visit, Western Guy is not convinced Russian Woman is sincere, so he stalls on the K1, maybe plans a return visit "to be sure." (If the return visit is made, usually nothing changes. Or, if the K1 is pushed through despite the reservations, the cold behavior manifests itself once again upon entry into the U.S.) They continue the correspondence and/or the K1, neither willing to dump the other. Western Guy really wants to believe that it is part of the Russian Woman's culture not to tell him (or even act like) she loves him. He has bought this story because it is all he has to hang onto. Relationship drags on like this, floating, going nowhere.
Advice to these Western Guys for what it is worth:
There is some truth to what you have learned about Russian women not revealing their feelings unless they feel it is important to them. But know that when it comes to relationships with Western men, some will use this cultural quirk as an excuse for leading a man on.
Why? because the Russian Women have no better offers and they are curious. They have nothing to lose by having the Western Guy come all the way to FSU with his hopes up and his heart wide open.
When Russian Women lead men on like that, we sometimes ask them why they did it? A lot of them say, "If the guy is crazy enough to pursue me, why not? I had nothing else going on? Why not let him come to Kiev/St.P/Wherever and buy me dinner and entertain me? If he is so naive to think he can have a woman like me, he deserves to be taken advantage of!"
Now, that makes absolutely no sense to Western Guys (or WesterneERS period), but to Russian women (and RussIANS) somehow it is a valid rationale. They shore this up with the routine about it being part of their culture and femininity not to reveal their feelings unless it is "important" to them.
In my mind, this is just code for "I don't really love you, but I'm going to take advantage of you and not feel guilty about it."
Western man is in love (or infatuated) and in DE NILE.
Very hard to break out of this treacherous African current, especially when she looks like one of those Victoria Secrets Angels on the posters in the store windows that you try not to be caught gawking at or slowing in front of as you walk along the crowded sidewalk in the trendy shopping district of the town where you live.
But to those guys to whom this has happened or is happening, take heart. Cheer up, break away from it. Swim ACROSS the current, not AGAINST it, and keep trying! There are tons of nice Russian women out there. Plenty that would LOVE you. You just need to adjust what you are shooting for to be realistic.
If she isn't obviously absolutely crazy about you, affectionate, and thrilled to meet you when you visit, then forget about her and try another.
Persitent topic or not QC it is very true .........and your description of it should dispel many doubters,IT IS true that some women are like that,but as you state there are so many more who freely express their feelings.
Sometimes you are right on - and I have to admot I am amazed at your insight.
I find myself in that situation right now. I do care very much for my Moldovan fiance and I am engaged to her - but certain things about he made me question her while I was in Kishinev. I made that visit with Fiance Visa papers in hand (back in April) determined to either finish them with her or to move on to someone else.
While ther were absolutely GREAT moments with her - there were also very bad ones. We argued nearly every day and when I left I honestly had no intention of coming back. It was for that reason that I began to pursue my other Moldovan and eventually made a trip to Riga.
But other situations have not worked out so well.
But we spoke often on the phone and old feelings were revived. Now I find myself on the verge of visiting Moldova again and bringing her over on a Fiance Visa.
We will have serious discussions this time and we will either work things out to become husband and wife or I will cut my losses.
The other Moldovan I pursued swore her love to me. Called me at least 30 times (because of the expense, of course, she would call briefly and ask me to call her back). She even sent me pictures of her mother in the hope, she said, that I could find an older gentleman for her as well so that mother and daughter could live in the same area.
Well, all this while "my" Moldovan claimed that the other had a boyfriend - but of course the other denied it. In Septemeber, these former friends met again for the first time in 10 months and this "other" Moldovan presented... A BABY which she had just delivered.
Seems that while she was callig me, begging me to meet her in Odessa in August, had we met I would have discovered her to be EIGHT MONTHS PREGNANT. When she tried to talk me into visiting Moldova two days early and seeing her before I saw the other (I actually only saw one girl) she was FOUR MONTHS pregnant.
Of course the father is the boyfriend she claimed she didn't have. Now she is alternatingly planning to marry him, go to Odessa to try again or planning to go to Italy to try her fortunes there. She is also considering combinations of two or three of these alternatives.
These girls are incredbly beautiful and intelligent - and there are times you nerly have to be pintched to believe that you are with such incredible examples of femininity. But they can be very deceptive.
Ditto Jet. I know my girl loves me completely and with all her heart, but... There were times, not every day, that were difficult. She would not like something I would say or not understand what I really meant and she would pout. She is very emotional. I talked about this in a thread a month or two ago. I had just returned from visiting her and I was uncertain about our future together. Now we are talking almost every day and I am going back Dec 29th and my plan is the same as you are saying. We will either work this out or...
It is difficult because I know she loves me more than anyone has ever loved me. I'm 47 and she is 38, so I don't think it is an age related thing. I could never deal with a 20 something! More power to you, and good luck.
Neonred:
Glad to know that there is someone else who gets similar mixed messages.
I envy tradman and a few others who go and visit their girls and come bounding back with nary a question or a hesitation that what they are doing is the right thing.
As I said - when I visited Moldova I was ready to fall into love's rapture - I was geared for it - but it didn't happen. There were MOMENTS that would melt my keyboard if I typed an accurate description of them. But there were also moments when I wondered what the hell I was doing there.
Since I HAD been in contact with two Moldovans (former friends) I was prepared for the worst. and I did bring along names and phonenumbers of other women just so that my three week trip would not be a total bust if things did not work out between us. There was even one time when I suggested that she leave my room with her terrible mother and we would consider ourselves to be finished. And I meant it with all sincerity at the time.
But now I find myself going back.
We WILL reach agreement this time. If we are in love (as she purports) we will advance this thing. If not - I will go back to Odessa most likey in July or august on a Romance Tour.
Honestly I want to marry her. But if it is unworkable - I am not stupid enough to go that direction - if it is not to be.
neon, jet,
this is funny. i did not really know the details of your actual relationships on your visits. but both your stories closely parallels mine . my first visit was a social and a few i met from fiance. then my second trip was to be with my interpretor that we fell for each other from the first trip. i thought it would be a bed of roses but she gave me plenty of reasons to not be happy with her. i couldnt understand her reasoning. i thought it was over when i departed. but it has rebounded and we are closer than ever on the phone twice a week,in what capacity i am not sure. but i know i have a good friend. jet, if nothing materializes by february i am sure i am going to an afa to odessa.
Just spoke to my Moldovan (my fiance) by phone. If current attitude is ANY indication of what will occur between us in January - well jmoluv you may have to go to Odessa alone.
What's going on here.Once again, this is my work. Why are you plagarizing my posts? Witness the reference to my wife Olga, and if that's not enough go see it under my name on the Saint John's List, Yahoo RWL, and a few others.
Oh yeah, and note that sionce Shaggy didn't realize who the author was, he agreed completely. (Don't feel threatened by QC, do you Shaggy?)
Don't jump the gun. I don't read every post. The forum was dying and I found 4 interesting articles that I felt might stimulate discussion and entertain. That's all. Looking forward to anything else you may have that may do the same.
I browse quite a few sites and copy and paste stuff that catches my interest. Friends also send me snippets. Since I have zero memory I usually can’t remember where I found the original. There is no intention to mislead here and I had not read the responses. (I’m not one of those who compulsively reads every submission and who wishes constantly to see his name in lights). Had I done so I would have 'taken a bow' or responded.
Since the stuff is out in the public domain and there is no mention of copyright, I never really gave it a thought. It was a non-issue for me. Clearly, it is for you and I will bear that in mind in future. QC
Doug if you must know I don't feel threatened by you or QC.
The simple fact is what is above is not an exclusive and the fact that one letter from you is without hostility is most likely because you did not write it. Someone else edited your work and made it worth something. But hey keep trying marshmallo!
Last I noticed things posted on public forums became property of those forums. I would not worry about your plagarizing. I would work on your quality of information. I have said many times that information is only as good as the source. Well Doug I guess maybe you have learned something.