I have to agree with GladiatorUK on post deletion. This issue with Martin has gone on for a long time this is nothing new. I am one that is guilty of my retorts to Martin and most were not very pleasant. As a whole this forum operates with minimal problems. The random deletion of posts is a form of censorship that paying customers should not have to tolerate. I am no longer a paying customer. If deletion of posts is appropriate form of censorship then Fiance.com has dropped the ball. What should have been done, as would be done in many establishments, i.e. bars, restaurants and the sort. The individual should be reprimanded and then told if his behaviour continues he will be barred from the site. Not some softball statement like, Martin please unsubscribe from the forum. I had asked him many times and the question will still stand what contributions did he offer here? Many replys here are mean spirited, but hey folks let's act like adults and get over it. We would have eventually wore him down and he would have left. This place is not for the timid, as in the search for a lady from the FSU is not for the timid. So if you can't take the verbal jousting here, how do you expect to deal with situations in a foreign country? For some making their first trips abroad you better open your eyes and beware. Especially my fellow Americans. You are leaving your backyard and the rules change dramatically. I've had two bad encounters in a foreign country, I got the crap beat out of me pretty bad in a Somalian jail, Berberra is not a pleasant place and they don't know what the hell Miranda is. As for Martin, I will support his right to say what he pleases, I do not support censorship in any form. If you don't like what he say's ignore it or hammer him back. That's free speech! I know at times the language is inappropriate, but we are adults. Yes it is not polite, but neither are many of the people we have to deal with at passport control. So you better have some thick skin. Deleting posts is not the answer, especially ones that have valuable information even if they take a verbal shot at someone like Martin. We are all guilty of these things at one time or another.
Mike, forum is free to everybody. it has nothing to do with site memberships. posts are deleted just to keep our forum on the subject and not make our forum looks like it is a fight club, and competition in swearing. this forum is our on company servers, and it is our right to manage content. Using our site means accepting our terms and conditions. Mike, we did what you suggested, it did not help. it is impossible to block somebody from posting to the forum. we do not censer post as you may have noticed. posts are published right away. we just clean this place up sometimes, so forum readers find it useful to be here.
The real answer to someone like Martin is to pass over his silly remarks. Why retaliate? It is pointless. He was given reason to become annoyed in the begining I think, but his overreaction and futile continuance became ridiculous. Not threatening, or dangerous it is just a forum on the internet not fight club as Olegnay puts it. None of this really matters. When Martin plastered this forum with nonsense poetry before many of us made out farewells and quietly bowed out and it settled down. It really wasn't that important. For every minute I am writing here I could be writing to Marina again (yeah like the woman doesn't get enough attention by God). I really don't think it is necesary to have a virtual fight with anybody here it is foolish. What is achieved - absolutely nothing. It isn't a bar fight it is a forum about finding a wife in FSU right Freebird, Tradman, Crash, Nasfan, et al. Just a forum nothing special. Just a bunch of stupid electrons flying around the world.
Also it is wrong to gang up on someone. I have poked fun but I have never insulted the man and I also think he does have something productive to contribute. He has said things about plane schedules and other bits and pieces that were useful. Unfortunately he is not able to just let go and accept a knock or two.
Given time it will all settle down especially if everybody does not antagonise. Poking a little fun is one thing constantly attacking is another. I do not feel that Martin has ever gone for my throat and I have made fun of him more than once, not insulted. Therefore apparently he has a sense of humor.
Spirit and I always take a sort of middle path and I think that we are on the right track. I know how Martin feels though I have been brutalized here many times especially at the begining. I didn't let it become a festering sore and my natural sense of humor has always rescued me. I prefer to poke fun at myself before others can do it for me.
So why don't we stop constantly using Martin as a whipping boy and ignore anything that he says that is excessive. There are 2 choices throw gas on a fire or let it quietly calm down until it is friendly again.
Now I have to write a letter to Martha Stewart and do some yoga. After that I shall make some lentil soup and paint a rainbow on the side of my van.
I have only one thing to say here, all of you please cast your minds back and decide with an honest mind, not a biased mind, who started the unpleasantness, Toad or me?
If you truly want a 'pleasant' forum, where all are 'buddies' etc. then perhaps you may practice what you preach, if you want others to be pleasant to you then you need to get your own house in order first.
I've only been doing what I've been doing to teach you, some of you, a lesson, perhaps that lesson has been learnt now and just perhaps some of you will be nicer people as a result, but then perhaps not!
Maybe we can start over? Hi Martin,I am Blaine. Hey there`s plenty of room for you here. You`ll find me to be pleasant,polite,and respectful person who is willing to discuss any number of subjects,and who will be glad to rep the benefite of any wisdom you have
I just have a very quick word about freedom of speech and deleting posts.
I do not totally believe in freedom of speech it is an overrated concept. It is a guide and a protection from the opposite situation. Book burning etc.
Too many of the 'inalienable rights' in this great land have been misinterpreted over the years and attempted to be used as a yardstick for all personal and societal ills. Basically you just cannot say whatever you want, to whoever you want, whenever you want. It goes completely against the standards of a civilized society.
It is very much like dieing your hair green, putting a bone through your nose, sporting a mohican haircut, wearing work boots and applying for a job as a bank clerk. You are not going to get the job and it isn't any good bitching about 'freedom of expression' or 'prejudice'. If you look like a thug the cops WILL profile you. Hell I will profile you !
Somebody's mother dies and you say "tough luck bud you'll get over it" - wrong!!
To a 12 year old child "so do you like anal sex?" - wrong!!
I don't like an opinion you hold so therefore you are sexually incompetant and probably gay - wrong!!
The proverbial yelling fire in a crowded theater - wrong!!
I think you get the idea. I don't need to continue. If somebody speaks to another person in a unnecessarily abrasive way they can expect nothing in return except the same thing and it escalates from there. A la Korea.
Personally, I don't expect to find 'buddies' here it is just a forum on the internet. Bunch of like minded people pursuing the same goal sharing info and sometimes having some fun and poking fun at one another, hopefully, in a relatively respectful way. Likewise, it is best just for the purposes of etiquette to not come across as either overly opiniated or a know-it-all.
In my own case I am a very experienced world traveler but regarding the former soviet union I have been there once. It is more than somebody that has not been there at all but it is still just once and doesn't make me an FSU expert. I can talk about blinys and changing money but that is about it. 9 months into this, a couple of relationships later and still very much a novice. A beginner.
Regarding deletion I can't find fault. If I was running a server and I felt like it I would delete stuff. It is my server I can do what I like with it. Fiance is a paying service for the dating agency only. The forum is merely a niciety that they have provided to presumably attract business. If they ditched it this site would be not very different from a million others so that is why they have it.
The only thing I do not understand is the inability to remove somebody from the membership roles. I am not an expert but I did dabble with IT a few years ago. I absolutely do not believe that you cannot delete somebody's membership and block their further posts. I am not saying that should be done to Martin, I think this situation is repairable, but I am amazed at being told that technically it is not possible. It is a few keystrokes. Therefore I would say that overall Fiance has been pretty tolerant.
Now you can all destroy me.
Ready, steady, GO.
This has all gotten too far I think. When I wrote in another thread the other day that "I am finished with you Martin, for now" I really ment it. I felt this had all gone too far. It was time to stop it. It pleases me that others have come to the same conclusion.
The best thing to do when things goes "Out of control" as it did, I think is just to ignore. There has to be freedom of speech in a forum, however personal things should not be allowed to be published. I have also done my share of being unreasonable to Martin, I think most of what I have said is true, but I had no business interfering when he and toad had an argument going. It wasn't my business in the first place. I let me self be provocated by Martin, and that is my fault and nobody elses. I decide my own my choises, I can choose to get angry or to just to ignore. I did choose wrong that time!
When it comes to you Martin, I think it is about time you also take a break. This recent comment is a stupid comment I think: "I've only been doing what I've been doing to teach you, some of you, a lesson". If this is your way of teaching someone a lesson I think you should reconsider. this is absolutely the worst way to teach someone. Why don't you try to be constructive instead of throwing shit in all directions? I think that is a lesson easier learned than the bullshit we ALL have been doing here. I agree to izi when it comes to the contribution, you had some rather good posts about flights.
I just wonder how fun this Forum will be for you now when everyone is friendly...
If you try to be a little more humble, I will try to ba a little more friendly..
Guess I have to chime in. I'm not exactly in line with your argument. I ultimately do believe in the right of free speech. But, it's tempered with the rights of others. I am very much Jeffersonian in my view of rights (which ultimately sprang forth from John Locke). If all men are created equal, and are created with certain inalienable rights, then I can't have a right that lessons or removes another.
The issue stands to more of where government powers should be derived, and where actions of society in general should apply (and use of private property rights).
That's important, since the Bill of Rights and the 1st Amendment specifically deal with the former, and others often delegate that to the latter, which is invalid.
The Right of Free Speech is a safeguard against government censorship, pure and simple.
A private organization has no such obligations, other than to honor it's agreements, and not use force to violate the rights of others.
My ultimate point is that this is not a truly "public forum", but one sponsored by a private organization. They are not violating free speech, since we don't have a "right" to say whatever we want on this forum, which is their property.
How do we defend our perceived violations of speech in this case? Simple, you go elsewhere. If the issue of censorship is pervasive, then the majority will vacate the premises. In the same vein, if presence of hostile views are occuring that are driving away participants, then it is within rights of the owner to perform actions to further their interests in having a "public forum".
As do I.That was the point I was trying to make in my post in my ever so vulgar way. By the way I am not from the UK, But I don't belong here so I will leave
yeahright.. To understand the conflict that have been going on here I think you would have needed to be here for a while to understand... Most of the posts that have been done is deleted by now... For all I know, you could have been around also... nothing surprise me anymore..
Once upon a time there was a poster here in this forum. Amoungst a variety of real contributions he also posted a thread contaning links literally exposing himself and someone else, and for this he took an enormous amount of flag. Even wildcards came flying in to condemn, and all because he made a point, indeed a graphical one. Irrespective of the fact wether you agreed with this, his message was a clear one, however the thread was edited and closed.
Not cencorship but merely a moderator moderating, their prerogative entirely, for as said this medium is a privately owned one.
Abide by the rules when posting here, not very strict ones but only pertaining to common decency, and try to contribute whilst posting.
If it is displayed that manners are grossly lacking, if the sometimes fine line between polite and rude is crossed with lightspeed from a dazzling height, if an IQ of a retarded carrot is ad infinitum not indicated but proven to such an extent that even similar vegetables smirk in recognition, and if the meagre contributing value of posts is paled by the greasy personal attacks then I think it is only normal that a Moderator steps in, for in the end this is actually what they get paid for, it is their job.
Madame Olga & Monsieur Oleg, you in fact DO have the means of banning to your avail - remember Chipscher? Quite a different case, but he also polluted these pages, admittedly with another kind of filth. In hindsight he however was a gent compared to the current case at hand, and a foulmouth nutcase he is.
Please extend all of us the courtesy to euthanase this forum back to where it was, it would do the world of good.
Izi,
one specific post of you I commented on you'll remember. I've never doubted your sanity however, you just needed a tug in the mouth. Your above post I think is one of your best ever though, keep those coming.
Here's my take on moderation of this forum. If you are going to moderate then do it. Martin is a bit of a lighting rod, but there are many other posts here that are a bit worse than his. After being on here a year there were many more inflammatory statements made that make his somewhat subtle. In fairness to all you can't pick and chose. You set a standard of norms and follow it. That is for everyone. To use a kind word there have been "houseboys" here that have gotten away with far worse than Martin. I'm not defending him, but let's be fair in who we chastise.
Izi freedom of speech will never be highly overrated, as with certain freedoms many take for granted. The problem is we have given up freedoms for certain securities so we won't feel uncomfortable. Sorry that's not for me. I will never surrender my freedom for security and first and foremost my freedom to speak my mind whether another person likes it or not. We have blurred the lines and made many things very gray and that was intended to keep us off balance. I've lost jobs speaking my mind directly and bluntly. You can threaten my paycheck, but I will not succumb to tactics as that. Same as in this forum, everyone has the right to speak their mind, whether or not it is liked buy us or the owners. To have an honest exchange of ideas you cannot choose who's you like the best.
YR that is why I only read. I will ask my questions elsewhere. Ignorance is punished here. I use the word with the meaning of a lack of knowledge or comprehension of what is being specified...not resulting from a lack of intelligence. My condolence on those who are unlearned of this particular subject.
My two cents…I would have to agree with scottlf and disagree with nasfan6. Mike the only entity that can truly violate your right to free speech is a governmental agency by depriving you of liberty (jail)or property (fines). The right of free speech does not include a right to a venue. Nor (no pun intended) does it include a right to be heard. If the moderators decide they do not like what you post and delete it they have exercised their right of private property. The fact that you can if you wish start your own forum to express your views proves that your right to free speech have in fact not been violated.
Exercising tact and respect for others is not an infrigement on freespeech. Common decency curtails the whole principle of freespeech.
Nas the next time a policeman stops you for some minor infraction let your temper go and tell him what you think of his parentage and see how far your 'right' to free speech gets you.
A cell with a gentleman called Bubba is where you will end up. There is no such thing as free speech same as there is no such thing as freedom or democracy. They are basic misconceptions. Nobody is free we are all subject to somebody elses will and democracy is so top heavy it is impossible to wield effectively.
So I disagree with you. I will leave it at that.
I am not conservative like you I am very liberal. We are at total ends of the spectrum. I am glad that you have been able to have the luxury of speaking your mind to people you have worked for/with. On the surface it seems a good thing. On the other hand I prefer to pick my battles and exercise good judgement in what I say, to whom, when and the manner in which it is said. It is merely respectful of the other person and prudent. Generally speaking courtesy costs nothing and reaps large rewards. I am a firm believer in catching more flies with honey and not vinegar. It is merely a personal view and I am only human. I can be drawn as well as the next guy. I just don't see the need to be antagonistic disguised as free speech.
I think you're missing my point, but I will save for later. I'm talking about insidious incrementalism. First define what a liberal is for me, than I will understand better.
Antagonism is not a form of free speech. ONLY when it is disagreed with another party. Also this is the lie that has been told to Americans for 60 years, we are a democracy. No we are not. But the millions of bobbleheads just go along to get along.And that is why we are in the mess we are in. We need less government and more personal responsibility and to be held accountable for our responsibilities.If Adams and Hancock and the rest bobbled their heads my dollars would be pounds and my drink would cost me 50p. Excuse me my UK friends I hope that wasn't inflammatory.
I'l just write as a comment on something Izi has said up above regarding what is, and what is not possible, to moderate such a forum as this.
There are other sites that I know od, not FSU related, whereas if a bad word is used it obviously registers in a form of spell-checker and will immediately be displayed as something like #### rather than the word itself, on that same site, with each post, there is a button 'report this post to moderator'.
One thing I have learnt about this site is there is no realistic moderation, anyone can use whatever words they like and unless, by fluke, Admin happens to be reading that post (of the many) or someone chooses to report it then whatever choice of words, or indeed insults, will remain for all to see.
Regardless of personal disagreements between individuals on this forum, this forum is accessible by anybody who chooses to browse the internet, it could be a lady from FSU, it could be a 7 year old child, whilst it may be said that there is much worse on the internet I do not belive it ethical that one may choose to use a stream of 'F' words and unless reported, will reman here for anyone to read.
If a site such as fiance.com is to operate such a forum then I do not believe it is asking too much to moderate, and spellcheck, it in a correct manner. Should this not be possible or should it be outside of their budget then perhaps they should decide if such a forum, to a degree full of bad language and insults, is a good, or not so good, advertising tool for their paysite!