have some experience that may be useful to other list members. I would like to hear from other list members if it even applies to non-Ukrainian parts of the FSU. I would appreciate comments from list members.
Below are excerpts of emails from a independent (non-agency associated) woman translator. Sveta and I had exchanged several emails without me even knowing there was a translator involved. The first part is about the translator and not very useful as reference other than helping place the useful part in context. This exchange began in response to an email from me saying I would not like my wife being a metal worker.
Hello Dennis,
Sveta asked me to write a small letter to you,to answer your questions if you will have any. I made up my mind to tell you more of me.
Several years ago one girl from my town asked me to help her to translate letters, arrange
the telephone conversations and the meeting. They got married soon and now they live in
England and a cute girl was born in their family. Some other girls made requests and now I spend all my days at the computer and at the telephone, in the trains or arranging the accommodations. I do not complain. I like it. It is a strange job but it is also very interesting. I meet different people from different counties, it helps me to understand the world better. Sveta saw positive results of it and made up her mind to try to find her only one and asked me to help her as she trusted me too. I know Sveta's family quite well and I must say that she is a good housewife, an excellent friend, a caring woman and an interesting personality. Dennis, if you are serious in your decision to come to Ukraine -I can really help you. I help girls to translate the letters. I help them to scan and to send pictures and to arrange meetings and with the immigration documents.
I can help you to arrange a meeting too. I can only advice. You can choose.
As for my English I am a college graduate. It means that I have spent 5 years to learn
it and still I cannot say that I master the language because it is impossible for me to go
to the English-speaking country, to improve my English. I think it's impossible to learn the language without the opportunity to listen to the speech in the natural surrounding. The only way for me to improve it is to help people from America, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and Australia when they come to Ukraine on different occasions as tourists, on business or by private invitation.
I do not have an agency at all. I just receive letters, translate them, arrange meetings
and help people when they ask me to help. Sometimes men do not believe me because they were hurt in the past or they heard the negative stories about Ukraine and Ukrainian. I do not know how to help them, I do not know how to gain the trust of the people. I'm not going to take an advantage of you. It is not in my character.
I will write what and how I can help both of you and you can choose to ask me for my help or not.
-meet you at the airport
-I can rent a nice but not expensive flat in the center of Kiev, I can
rent a flat(for 3 of us) or two flats(the price will be only $5-10 more
expensive)in the same district not far from
the center of Kiev. It will be better for you to choose how it will happen,
I mean where you will live.
-I can show you the city, I know it quite well-
-I can rent a cheap taxi for one trip or for all days,-
-buy tickets to different concerts, museums, theatres, galleries.
-to help you to translate if you have problems.
If you want me to help you for one day only-write the time-from and till.
Dennis, I can give you the e-mail addresses of the men I have already
helped - just write and ask them any question you have.
Here, the translator gave me a list of email addresses of her clients. The clients were from the US, Canada, and one from UK. I wrote each and asked about their experiences with the translator, about non-airfare costs of a visit, and general experiences with the process involved with getting married. Each client answered me with praise for the translator and information about costs and the process. Some included pictures of their wives, new children, and themselves. Corresponding with the clients was a very positive experience for me.
Here begins the part I feel may be useful as reference.
I could help people more, but it is not easy to gain the trust. Men are too suspicious and it's rather often, when I can do nothing, even if I feel, that the man is sincere and the woman he is in correspondence with is very much alike the ideal he is looking for...
But sometimes they try and the majority (not all of them) win.
Why do the couple doesn't match? I do not know the definite answer to this questions. Sometimes men are looking for "the crystal dream", not a real woman. Their demands are too high:
- Young
- Pretty
- Charming
- Extremely intelligent
- Highly educated
- With broad outlook
- Rich inner world
- Fluent English
- Without children, never married
- Not materialistic
- Feminine, tender, faithful, etc..
I can continue... but they (the men) are far from being perfect themselves.
- Not young,(sometimes 25 years older then the woman they are looking for)
- Divorced (sometimes several times)
- Without good education
- Fat or their shapes are not perfect
- With children(up to 8)
- Lots of mistakes even in English (of course, they do not know any other languages).etc
- Sometimes disabled or very poor (unemployed)
Yes, there is no future for such a couple. Sometimes men are extremely religious and women cannot accept it. Sometimes they are on a non - holstering (vegetarian etc)
Yes, there is no future for such a couple. Sometimes men are extremely religious and women cannot accept it. Sometimes they are on a non - holstering (vegetarian etc) diet and cannot accept the woman who eats meat, cakes, fat, etc. Sometimes they do not like the voice, the manners or something else, because they drew the image in their imagination and if the girl differs from it - they cannot accept it.
Sometimes everything is perfect, but it is very difficult for man, who has been alone for many - many years to make the step and marry her. They spend on correspondence months, they come 2 - 4 times and in the majority of cases girls give up - they do not want to wait for ages, but men are not decisive.
So many men so many minds.
Below is a second email in response to an email from me giving the translator this definition of feminine; “Feminine Having the qualities of a woman; becoming or appropriate to the female sex; as, in a good sense, modest, graceful, affectionate, confiding” and suggesting to the translator that the expectation of feminine was not too high of a demand.
Feminine...
Oh,it's easy...when you are surrounded with nice and pretty things,in a warm house,having money on food and high heel shoes,cosmetics of your favorite brand and orange juice in the morning,lots of men around you and a nice car (not to damage the heels on the shoes),toys for your children and (I can continue and the list will be long,though I have never been to your country).
Feminine...
Oh,it's impossible to carry heavy bags full of food that is necessary to cook for hours just to give your children something...on the ninth floor without elevator...to live without hot running water and in a cold flat,to save money for several month just to buy a bottle (a tiny one) of your favorite(not expensive ,of course) perfume,to cut the hair at your neighbor and to die it yourself(it is more economic),to go everywhere on foot and try to wear the shoes bought 3 years ago just for a couple of months-one more season,because your children grow too fast,to work at the open market after being a college Graduate and not because you are stupid but just because the state does not need you at all. You are human recourses for it! and .....to remain feminine...
A car for you-a luxury
a telephone-a dream
holiday at the sea(once in 5 years)-forget!
-to take your children to MacDonald's...Sorry-your children are not good enough...
You should be feminine...
And we are!!!!And that is a contradiction,that is a mystery -you,the men from America cannot understand,that is why you want to come and to see it with your own eyes. That is why-NONE of the men who has ever met the woman from my country will ever marry an American woman.
Come and you will be in a "trap",in a so pleasant one-you will refuse to go out!
It's not hype. It is a first hand experience. I have nothing to sell here. I work in the power generation industry. It is a different prospective and an accurate one in my experience.
I enjoyed that post very much. That woman is speaking the truth. I myself could NEVER find a woman like Elena here in America. She just wouldn't be interested in an ordinary guy who is not rich and has a tummy and grey hair.
She is being honest and I thank you for sharing that letter.
Do you mean that one can go shopping on the internet, select a lady, and the postman delivers her? Boy, that would be so much easier, do you know I've been travelling and dating, in the good old-fashioned sense of the word, and I've met a beautiful lady who shares a similar outlook on life to myself, our senses of humour work marvellously in sync with each other, we've had a lot of fun times together, we've talked and talked and talked and we truly are the best of friends.
How does the 'mail order' system work then?
To summarise my personal feelings, I consider that to regard a lady as a 'Mail Order Bride' is perhaps the biggest insult a man can say about a lady, why not save your breath and simplfy it by calling her a prostitute or an escort.
So when 2 people, let us say Americans both living in America, meet via an internet dating site and subsequently marry, neither of them having set foot outside of USA, is she the 'Mail Order Bride' or is he the 'Mail Order Bridegroom'?
Why does an international relationship change a description so much, international dating in a continent such as Europe is reasonably normal and I began international dating when I lived internationally. I didn't appreciate that one should regard the whole female population of the world, outside of one's home country, as Mail Order material!
Lighten up dude. I copied the other topic name. There is no such thing as a mail order bride. It is or should be obvious from my post that I intended insult to know one.
Conatus
Don't worry it can be like that around here. You can say good morning and some people in this forum will immediately become smart asses or just downright hostile and leave you wondering what you did or said. I thought your post was excellent.
Conatus,
I'm not suggesting that you intended to offend and I'm not mad with you, I merely detest that expression that when used, it doesn't send out a message of naivity, of ignorance, by the person that uses it.
I'm not suggesting that you're naive or ignorant, as you say, you copied the topic name.
Do you know, this site is a minefield of information, I'd have never known that America was several hours behind the rest, the majority, of the rest of the world!