I'm new to this forum, but I've spent the past few days trying to catch up on the bulk of the posts here. The most relevant thing I have to offer at this point is this: It's possible to learn to speak Russian entirely on your own, at home, without living in Russia (and with only minimal contact with live, native speakers.) Here's how I did it...
Things to note:
-- I've never studied any language before, other than the obligatory two years of Spanish in H.S. ("Taco" and "burrito" are about all I remember).
-- I am a professional guitarist with a good ear, but never had much of a knack for doing imitations, etc.
In short: Four hours a day of study my first year, three hours per day since then.
The longer version:
I bought everything: All three levels of Pimsleur; Levels I and II of Rosetta Stone; Vol's I and II of the Nachalo college textbooks, and Vol's I and II of the Live From Moscow college textbooks; the Berlitz course; the Living language (into, and advanced), not to mention three dictionaries, 750 Russian Verbs and Their Uses; and a slew of grammar books, including my favorite, the indespensible ESSENTIAL RUSSIAN GRAMMAR by Brian Kemple. And more. Children's books, some audio-only things, etc.
With the Pimsleur, I transcribed the entire thing. First, into notebooks, and then onto cards, putting the English on one side, and the Russian on the other. Also, I tape recorded only the Russian parts, so as to test myself later on. (Speaking of tape recorders, I have burned through four of them.)
I then made study cards of virtually every sentence in all four of those college textbooks. Put bluntly, that was a crapload of writing.
With the Rosetta Stone, I didn't like the constraint of being bound to the computer, so I recorded my own study cassettes. I'd say the English version first, and then record the native speakers. But i also went further. For example, each time, say, a new verb was introduced, I'd look it up in one of my books and read examples of its useage into my custom-made study tapes.
And then guess what? After making one of these tapes, then I'd listen to it a week later and write out onto cards every sentence (Russian on one side, English, the other).
A week later, I'd test myself on those cards, underlining all the missed ones.
And re-test a week after that, underlining all the ones I missed (in a different colored pen each time). At the end of the month, the ones I had the most trouble with went onto special cards which i carried with me and tested myself on everywhere. (And still do.)
In the meantime, I'd be reviewing old tapes in my car, at the gym, etc. I don't count that time spent in my three hours a day, really.
Recently, I've been transcribing simplified newscasts which are downloadable from a college website. And I am currently studying a textbook/video called (in Russian) "What Do You Think About It?", using the same methods described above.
Results?
I went to St. P and Kiev one year after first starting to study Russian, and I found that people understood everything I said, but I understood very little of what they said to me. Sentences were too long, too coloquial, and way too fast. Thus, my second year was spent with more emphasis on listening/transcribing. I have met native speakers with whom I can now converse on a weekly basis, and though i can comunicate a great deal of things, I am still dismayed at how long it takes me to calculate, if you will, the right phrasing. (Friggin' Byzantine grammar!) (Not to mention the often paralyzing aspectual verb-pair system.) Though I would be classified as mid-to-high intermediate in my knowledge, I feel LIGHT YEARS from fluent. (Fluent being, in my definition, the ability to watch a move in Russian and get 85% of the dialogue. And I'm no-where near that.)
I'll end with: Why? I simply fell in the love with the language...its sound, its complexity, its *alien-ess*. All I wanted, at first, was to get a grip on the basics, so as to order food, get a taxi, ask a girl her phone number, etc, but, man, once I got into it, I was hooked.
Anyway, that's my story. It *is* possible to learn a language, if you are passionate, obsessive, and have three hours a day. For me, it's 1.5 hr's in the AM, 1.5 hr's in the PM, and virtually no TV.
It has been said in this forum that only about 5% of the men who correspond with the ladies actually go to Ukraine or Russia. Well, of those 5% you have just put yourself at the top of the list as the most likely to succeed in finding a future FSU wife if that is your wish. Huge advantage if you can even basically communicate with them in their own language. I can speak and understand quite a bit after personal study such as you did but not to your degree and spending many holidays there. But I can't have full coversation. Only basic speaking and understanding. Sometimes a girl would say something to me in Russian and I would understand her at first. I'm kicking myself because In my head I feel I knew what she had just said to me. An hour later in the bathroom it came back to me and I answered her. We both laughed at my delay. It is a very difficult language to learn. But if you can master it you would be the King of the world over there I'm telling you! The girls love it!
You are at the top of the list. It amazes me when my lady insists that I correct the fine nuances of her English. She wants to make certain that she is getting everthing right. By contrast, of course, I can only say things like hello, goodbye, please, thank you, etc.
And incidently, few things are as frustrating as sitting through a movie dubbed in Russian with no English subtitles. Once in a while a movie is released in Eastern Europe WELL IN ADVANCE of its release here in the states. I would see it over there and then wait anxiously over here to see it in English and understand what they were talking about.
Thanks for the encouragement, guys. Yes, I'd love to marry a FSU woman. I'm heading there this summer (probably a week in Moscow and a week or two in Odessa/Crimea) to search anew.
re: movies...I was in St. P when I, ROBOT was released, and I took a girl to see it. Didn't get one dang sentence. Oh, i understood lot's of WORDS, but no sentences, and thus no real comprehension. That was (and still is) the most frustrating part for me, when I understand all the words in the sentence and STILL don't get the meaning. That's harsh.
You know who i found it the easiest to communicate with? The babushkas! The lady I rented an apartment from, SHE understood how to talk to me. S..l..o..w..l..y.., and with simple sentences. Man, that was fun, too. The day i arrive, and the landlady is giving me a "tour" of the kitchen (this is the sink, this is the two-burner stove, this is the fridge). Anyway, she then calls her friend on the phone and I overhear her say, "There's an American renting my apartment. He speaks Russian. Yes, he looks like a baseball player. Tell your daughter to show him the city tomorrow!"
BINGO, my first date. (Turned out the girl had a kid and was looking not for a lover or a spouse, but a provider. But, hey, I got a free, attractive tour guide for that morning.)
Cool story Mark. I was really trying to learn Russian a while back and ive really been wanting to get started on it again. You just gave me the inspiration to get my butt in gear again,lol.
Its funny because I can understand more than I can say. Did you have that same experience when you started?
I've heard it said that one great way to learn Russian faster is to be constantly exposed to the media. Here are a few websites that will provide you with Russian popular radio and some television feed through your computer via the internet.
One of our excellent members, Neon, actually provided these for me and my lady - and she LOVED listening to Russian Radio ALL THE TIME when she was here.
Play with these sites a little and you will find some great stuff.
Ski. I understand more than I can say too. I think this is normal. But this mainly applies to my learning audio tapes and CD. When I'm there and here the normal rate of speech....Woa! Too fast and I don't understand much at all. I'm getting better with the normal rate of speech but that is still the hardest part. Mark had I listened to that same phone conversation I'm thinking this is how I would have understood it. " American man, Apartment. He speaks Russian. Yes, Tell your daughter him city tomorrow. :) So I would have translated it as " Tell your daughter He will be in the city tomorrow or more correctly Tell your daughter to show him the city tomorrow. This is how I get by with my girls there. It's fun. They love my mistakes. They say I am like a sweet child.
LOL Deano! I got the same thing from my lady whenever I spoke Russian. She would scream whenever I would do it out of the blue, then she would make me say it over and over and I can see her studying me while I was doing it. Better yet I would say something gentle and sweet and I can see her start to melt on the spot. She loves it.
For me I studied (still am) the pimsluer course and was hearing it alot while she was here. I still even have all the Russian channels on tv and I watch them every now and then. But I do want to get back on it and start studying again, just because it interests me.
Thanks for the links Jet, heres another one. My lady was ALWAYS listening to the radio stations. I believe most here are broadcast right out of Russia: http://www.tvstreet.com/russiantv.htm
Skiired wrote: "Its funny because I can understand more than I can say. Did you have that same experience when you started?"
Deano echoed that sentiment, as well. But, no, not for me. During my first year, at least, I was able to say far more than I was able to understand. But that's due to my huge emphasis on learning words and phrases, and not doing nearly enough listening practice. What usually ended up happening, therefore, is that I would speak to the girls in Russian, but have them answer in English. It was our best form of communicating. A native speaker can usually figure out what you mean to say.
re: the screams of laughter skiired would elicit...I definitely got plenty of those. They usually happen when I try to talk too fast, and I produce such winners as, "Where can the bookstore find me?", and "I taste delicious to this pancake!"
Thanks guys, btw, for those links to the Russian radio sites. Should come in handy.
My journey into studying Russian commenced only 2.5 months ago. I have the 3 levels of Pimsleur and today I just completed the last lesson of Pimsleur I, and like yourself, I have put all the new words along with a few select sentences into a spreadsheet so I can see how the words are spelt in the cyrillic alphabet. I have also ordered Rosetta Stone 1 and 2 but I am still waiting for Amazon to dispatch it. I will be looking into some of the other resources you mention as well.
I have also asked one of the ladies that I am writing to you via private email to write her letters to me in Russian to help me with my learning, and sure enough she wrote to me her first letter in Russian this week. Saves her putting them through a translation tool and helps me see how a real native Russian writes with colloquialisms as well.
Nice to hear I inspired someone. Please feel free to email me if you have any questions, whether they be about translating something a girl writes to you, or about learning resources, or whatever. And here's one more story that might inspire you further:
Summer '04, St. Petersberg. I paid the door/cover charge to get into an AFA social. To be honest, I was not at all impressed by the looks of the women. Most seemed very plain looking to me, certainly when compared to the head-spinning beauties you see simply walking on Nevsky Prospect.
Well, the women weren't ALL plain-looking. I noticed a gorgeous brunette at the bar, and I watched from a distance as guys would approach her, chat for a minute, and then walk away. Well, no. It seemed like they simply stopped talking, and then drifted away. I watched this routine for quite a while...it seemed like every guy made the rounds to her. And then drifted away.
My turn.
(All in Russian)
ME: "Excuse me, do you speak Russian?"
HER: "Of course! And you?"
"A little. Are you from SPB?"
"Yes, of course. How wonderfully you speak! Where are you from?"
"Is it not obvious from my strong accent?" I ask.
"No. From where?"
"Guess," I tell her, smiling. (Russian men never seem to smile, and thus, my grin alone should've been a clue.)
"I don't know. I can't tell."
"I know you don't know. I would like you to guess."
"From Germany?"
[Note: With only one exception, I heard this every time. People thought I was from Germany. It shows you how unfamiliar they are with hearing Russian with an American accent. It also speaks to my genetic lineage, which is Danish and Austrian.]
"No, from America," I tell her. "Tell me, shall we speak on 'vwee' or on 'tee'?" [To those who haven't studied Russian, verbs change, depending on whether you want to speak formally or informally.]
"Let's speak on 'tee,' (Informal)" she replies.
And so, we conversate. You can be sure the other men were watching this. We spoke for an hour, and then I needed to use the bathroom. I return, and two guys are trying to buy her a drink. I approach casually, and one of the guys greets me. I greet him in perfect English, so he is certain that I am an American. "Buddy," he says, introducing me to the beauty. "This is Oksana. Dude, she doesn't speak a frickin' word."
And this, I thought, was classic. I tell him in *Russian*, loud enough for Oksana to hear, "Yes, we've already been introduced. Me and her have been conversing a long time."
"Say what?" he says.
Me, still in Russian, "You don't speak Russian?" Most foreigners who travel to Russia know that phrase when they hear it. The guy replied, "Ah, no."
I nod, step between him and Oksana, and ask her, "Would you like something cold to drink?"
"Thank you," she says. "Water, please."
The last thing that guy saw as he walked away was me handing a cold bottle of water to Oksana.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
EPILOGUE
She and I walked the city 'til 3am, along the river, watching the bridges rise for ships, etc. I of course got her number, but never called her. She didn't quite get how to talk with me. She would speed up, the sentences got longer, and I'd get as lost as that guy at the bar. You can only say, "Slower, repeat, excuse me," so many times. But what a night. I tell you, I felt like James Bond.