In all of my life I have only picked up ONE woman in a bar. A LONG time ago.
It's not my style either. I couldn't come up with a quick pick-up line to save my life.
But Socials are altogeher different. If you're thoughts are only on getting the woman into bed - then you have VERY EXPENSIVE HABITS (having flown 4,000 miles for a screw) and you have wasted your time (and money) as well as hers.
European Connections had a very austere seeming interview process - almost like giving a job-interview. That seemed a little bizarre at first, taking notes, some guys brought photo albums of their lives in America (I brought a few snapshots and gave out postcards dpeicting my home city and state). Interviews geberally ended with a two Polaroid photos being taken of yourself and the girl - one for each of you.
The three nights of the Socials were altogeher different.
And if you REALLY wanted to pick someone up for a quick roll between the sheets - there would have always been the FOURTH night and the many local bars - but certainly not during the greatly anticipated interviews.
Jetmba hit it on the head when he wrote:
>"The worst thing about finding a bride in the FSU - and its a problem no matter how you do it - is the time limitation.<'
Guys, putting enough time together is the best thing you can do to increase your likelihood of success. I know this is difficult for most people, but I don't think I would even consider a trip anymore unless I could spend at least four weeks in-country. I understand that many will balk at the idea, however, if you REALLY want to pull this off you should be shooting for multi-month trips.
In fact, I've met a lot of experienced men who have bought a flat or rent long term. I'm beginning to see the wisdom in this idea. I am considering buying a flat in either Odessa or Crimea. Yes, it might run 50K-125K if you buy a property but it will give you much more flexibility and allow you to really get to know the women you're dating. Furthermore, if you just wing it and bring a girl over, plan on spending 50K over a couple years getting her established anyway. With a flat you might even be able to re-coup some appreciation on top of your investment.
Jetmba is also a proponent of socials which can be a another useful resource among many. However, in respect to what I just wrote about time, forget about the ten-day tour. Most socials will now let you attend without buying the package. Actually, if you've got a Russian/Ukrainian female friend / translator who knows what you're looking for, just send her and save yourself a few hundred bucks.
While I do agree with Jetmba that socials have their place among various avenues of meeting ladies: correspondence, discos, restaurants, street, etc.. I do wish to qualify my endorsement. Agencies will tout "500-600 women" in attendance to meet 40 guys, this figure is based on three or four days time and some of these girls may attend for just moments. Also, there will only be about five women total that 35 of the guys are going to be stepping over each other trying to hit-on, the rest of the women are just taking up space for the most part.
As far as agency's paying ladies to attend socials this certainly isn't an idealistic practice, however, in reality it might be the only way to get substantial numbers of attractive looking women to show-up. From the standpoint of marketing, they shouldn't be using these ladies to promote their socials. However, if they are at least up-front and tell the guys they did whatever it took, "by hook or by crook" get the attractive ladies in the door, this might be begrudgingly acceptable.
At the Romance Social I attended in Odessa the ladies knew well in advance when the even would be. They were also SPECIFICALLY scheduled on each of the three nights - so that there would be different ladies there on ALL three different nights. My lady came as a guest of an officlal registrant who ACTUALLY was scheduled to be there on Sunday ONLY. She cheated slightly (my lady's friend I refer to) having attended on other Romance Social she was well aware that most quite a few quys have already found women that they are interested in by Sunday, the third night. So even though she was scheduled to be there exclusively on Sunday - she showed up and was let in on Friday night.
We were TOLD that there would be 200 to 250 different girls every night - and though I did not do a formal headcount I would guess that the claimed number was VERY accurate. There were FEW if ANY girls who were there on both the first and second night. (I didn't actually attend the third night because I HADsomeone living in my room by that time - but I was told that the women were again all different.)
To my knowledge - all of the ladies who were there ar 3:00 pm when the Social began were also there at 8:00 pm when it ended. the problem was not that the ladies intended to or were trying to leave. The problem was that there were simply too many beautiful ladies and not enough time to talk to all that we were intersted in. many wonderful ladies never got a chance to talk to a guy and sat there as wallflowers.
There were only about 15 guys there total the first night - not 35 - and that number decreased as the three Socials progressed.
There were SO MANY BEAUTIFUL GIRLS - watching our every move with anticipation - that it is patently absurd that they had to be paid to be there. These ladies were extremely excited to talk with us and each of us felt like visiting movie stars with all the attention we got.
Not everyone can afford to buy a flat in Odessa or to stay for months at a time - but practically everyone can afford to attend the Socials once in their life. And they should.
Sounds like a good social, which agency put it on? I've observed about six, usually sitting in an adjacent bar or restaurant to see all the women attending. Most of them were in Kiev. I saw a few nice looking ladies the first year I went in '99, after that the quality diminished. In Odessa, I watched an Anascamya run social and saw a few nice looking ladies. However, I talked to a guy at the Irish Pub who attended it later that evening. He said that all the good-looking ladies were pulled aside as soon as they walked-in the door and put through an hour photo / video session.
I attended a social in Kiev in '01 at the request of "Luda" a Kiev agency owner sponsoring the event. She was a very nice, honest woman who was assisting in meeting a couple ladies in her agency. She didn't have enough men to attend and it would have looked bad for members of her agency. She even arranged for one of the ladies was interested in to come and meet me. I had a nice talk with the girl in the back of the bar where it was being held. The girl was a stunning, thin blonde who had no interest in mingling with the social. There were about 90 women at the social, none of whom were the least bit attractive and about five guys, who were......er...uh...well....OK, they were Geeks! :) Anyway, the women were exuberantly crawling all over these guys like ants, and the guys were thrilled to death so everybody was happy.
As I also mentioned Jetmba, I realize that it's extraordinarily difficult to take the time off but if a guy really, really wants to be successful, spending as much time in-country is your best bet. As far as buying a flat, you're right it's certainly an expense so a long term rental is probably the most realistic choice.
i attended my first social in peru. I shoud have done this kind of tour when i went to ukraine. Things might have turned out differently then but in listened to the poor advice posted by nay-saying dingbats on this forum
Martin...I find it difficult to believe that I might be sticking up for Vanechka but you are wrong as to the use of the name Vanechka. My future son-in-law is named Ivan (pronounced Evon), his friends call him Vonya, and the family calls him Vanechka. I wrote and asked Lena just to make sure and this was her reply;
“Now, I would like to explain to you about "Vanechka" This masculine name, but usually in Russian talk so, when want to name a man affectionately. I know that the names are in Russian, which can be masculine and womanish simultaneously, but Ivan and Vanechka absolutely the masculine name! This no doubt!”
I just thought you would like to know to prevent any embarrassing situation the next time you are in Ukraine and meet someone named Ivan.
You make a good point. jmoluv and I have promoted Romance Socials for a long time - but the nay sayers who consider them to be "meat markets', those who have never gone to one but somehow equate them with American singles bars, usually out number us.
Buffed - the company I went with was European Connection. jmoluv also went with the same fine company. Unfortunately, as jmoluv first told me and I later saw for myself, European Connections has gotten out of the Romance Socials buisiness now - for good.
A European Connections Romance Social typically had less of a PARTY atmosphere and was a little more serious. that's why they worked so well. There was typically a dj playoing music and there was dancing, but the interviews occured some distance away, and there was very little alcholhol served. All the partying you wanted was available later during the 10 day tour - but the Social was meant for men who seriously wanted to find the lady of their future. European Connections didn't offer the most exciting Social but for guys who were not all party, party, party, and were insttead serious, I think it offered the best ones.
While I'm sad to see thay they are no longer conducting Socials - I would go with either of the other two companies without hesitation - before I would write endless letters. Socials are great.
sorry not long got back from Ukraine so haven't had a chance to reply to your post before I left. In answer to your question of whether the ones who didn't make the "cut" were babes or not - Absolutely they were!!! I agree with you wholeheartedly about being on here looking for babes. What is the first thing we see? A picture!!! Who looks at the profile if they aren't attracted to the picture? So yes I think you have a valid point!
As for socials, I have no experience of them and they aren't my style, but jetmba has good experience at them, there will be others who say the opposite. Same as there will be those who say they have tried one on one and that didn't work.
Someone commented that I was lucky, maybe so, maybe not. I think people who complain about bad luck haven't prepared correctly. Like the Gary Player golf quote "the more I practice the luckier I get". Or the guy in my office who is just going through his third divorce and can't believe how unlucky he is. I had to tell him once is bad luck but 3 time, ITS YOUR FAULT DUDE????? Its true in everything.
I also agree with Martin that letter writing is a great way to get to know someone if you are at all literate.
By the way, Visa is all sorted, Natalia will be here with me on Feb 24th. Maybe I have been lucky, but I think it is only that I met someone who was serious very quickly. Someone mentioned earlier that they kept their guard up and were sceptical when writing to ladies. I nearly came unstuck a few times with that attitude. All the stuff you read and hear about scammers will make you behave sometimes too sceptical. So I think you have to assess the risk, don't fall in love with the picture, but still try to remain open and reasonable. Or you risk pissing off one of the 5% babes that is really worth going to see. But going there is the only way you can possibly understand how different things are there. And, by doing so, you can avoid some of the misunderstandings that happen during letter writing.
and its not all one way traffic guys. While I was there a woman from Nataly's internet club, who had got her visa 2 weeks ago to go and marry some guy from Harlow UK. Received a letter saying he had changed his mind and didn't want her to come over because he didn't think he could live with someone else after being alone for so many years!!!! This was two days before she was due to fly!!!! And after she had sold what little possessions she owned!!! If it was the other way around would we call her a scammer????
Anyway, sorry for the long post and now that I've finished I'm not sure it was even relevant. So sorry everyone, guess I'm just all loved up!!!! :)
Jetmba, it remains to be seen if things will work out with my prospects in Peru. BUT if things do not turn out as hoped.... (which i doubt) then i will be heading to the first social in Russia i can get to. 1000 curses to the naysayers who conviced me that socials are not good!! It cost me $4000 and 4 wasted months of my life. I shoud ask UkraineTX for a refund !!!
Buffed!! 50K to get a girl established here in the states !!! I am laughing my ass off. I brought my first wife from the Philippines and it cost less then 1k to get her established. The whole venture cost me 7k from beginning to end. (7k for 7 years of bliss?? it was a great deal for me!!) Where do you get the 50k figure?? I think the costs of finding love overseas is greatly overblown!! If you make 20k a year and are dedicated and responsible, you can do it. I plan on doing it again in Peru for even less. I think i can pull it off for less then 6k.
Laugh all you want Viva Las Vegas, read the following and weep. Remember this is for TWO YEARS:
5K just to get her over here (rough estimate). A conservative, low figure which includes the fiance visa related paperwork, sending her to Warsaw for five days for the Embassy interview, (she had problems with something and had to stay longer than anticipated) and spending money for her six months waiting period.
8k for her used car,
3K for insurance, driving lessons, gas. Advice, get the maximum coverage if you have a Ukrainian, never let her drive while you're in your car if you have any kind of heart condition. If you don't have a heart condition, you will after being in the passenger seat by the time you go six blocks.
6K for both our wedding rings (5.4K for hers plus 0.6K for mine)
6K for travel expense, includes honeymoon and vacations. (a low estimate)
7K for extra food and dining out.
4K for Medical Insurance, Blue Cross and deductibles for check-ups.
4K for Dental Work. Ukrainian dentists don't have a clue and she needed a lot of work plus some oral surgery.
5K for clothing, cosmetics, and spending money.
1K for Modeling photos / Model Print Card
1K to send back to her family.
1K for Health club membership.
Now this comes to over 50K and is by no means complete. I haven't included miscellaneous entertainment such as movies, sporting events, etc. Nor have I included a huge figure for letting her decorate and furnish our house the way she wanted.
On the plus side, American men will find that being married to a woman with no income is a god-send when it comes to filing a joint tax return. It was raining money in tax refunds for me:) So this went a long way toward off-setting some of the expense.
Now, at the time when I met my wife in May of 2001 I could have bought a newly renovated, beautiful flat right on Dierebsaskaya in Odessa for 50K-60K I could have spent a couple years living there getting to know a potential future spouse better. If I went to sell now, I could probably have tripled my money. Just something to think about.
Looks like most of those expenses would be incured no matter who you married, except the first 5 k and maybe the modeling expenses, modeling??? Actually you made out in the used car dept. If you had married an American woman you would never had gotten away with a 8k used car. I doubt that she would have settled for less than a 28k SUV. LOL
You're absolutely right. The fiance visa part was a nightmare. First it cost me about 1,200 just for the Warsaw trip because she ran into a couple problems...if I remember correctly it had something to do with a certain document she needed and had to stay extra days in Warsaw while it was sent to her from Odessa. Then, there were huge snarl-ups afterwards with the INS (at that time) sending documents to the wrong address costing me a few hundered extra, also, the above figure included her ticket here.
I actually could have saved a little more on the ring, but since my previous ex-American girlfriend's would have cost almost twice as much I still thought I was getting off relatively cheap.
The modeling photos / print card was an absolute waste. I may as well have put a match to the cash. I accompanied her to several model meetings, talk about scams!! All these shysters want to do is make money off the would-be models, not find them work. She was a legitimate model, a six foot blond that would literally cause traffic pile-ups when she walked down the street in a mini-skirt and heals.
I was absolutly amazed when I took Lena downtown to buy her engagement ring. I was looking at rings with large center diamonds and around 2-4 smaller ones on each side. Lena kept wandering away and looking in other cases. After awhile she said she found the ring she would like. It was a small gold band with a few diamond chips that might have done well on a saw blade, NOT what I had in mind. I asked her if she was sure, that I prefered the other ring. she said she did not like such a large stone, she was afraid it would get caught on something abd she would lose the stone. Besides she said...the ring is not important...the fact that you wish to give me one is. the ring cost $80.
That's quirky thing about Ukraine-Russian(?) women, the size of the ring isn't as big as status symbol as it is to American women. My wife would have been perfectly satisfied with a smaller one, AT THE TIME. However, I knew her ego and figured after she had been here for a while she would suffer from "ring-envy" :) So I figured it was better to take my lumps at the time and suggested she get the bigger diamond. Actually, we had the Justice-of-the-peace wedding so we saved significant scratch on that part of the process.