We are sure that you will find. Of course the Soviet Union is large, you have a lot of chances, but the level of life gets better and the women's demands also grow, we work for nine years and can see a great difference.
It sums it all up, although I think Natasha tends to understate the situation. The pool dried up many, many, many years ago. However the travel and the lonely hearts club industry will continue to peddle the ‘dream’ and take your money.
Cutting everything down to its basic roots – sort of caveman level - all is based on a sex versus security scenario. The man wants sex on a regular basis and the woman wants security so she can have children. So a balance is achieved. She supplies sex he supplies security. Clearly this is an incredibly exaggerated simplification but it is the basic building block that is found in a chunk of the animal kingdom including mankind.
The thing is this - that the woman, wanting security, ‘shops’ around. As does the man for attractiveness. If a man approaches an attractive woman and wants to hook up with her and doesn’t have the wherewithal, i.e. money in the modern world, he will be politely (we hope) told to move along. Again I am talking generally, if somebody is outstandingly handsome then of course that weighs heavily in the argument.
My second attempt in Ukraine met with an obstacle because I have debts as do most westerners. Her lack of English didn’t allow her to understand the complex monetary system in the west where we balance things out with net wealth etc. She just didn’t get it. That and her grasping for the material ended that one pronto. So what was the bottom line there? She thought she was incredibly beautiful (slightly delusional) and was using that to sell herself to the highest bidder. There is a name for that. Her action though was completely understandable when put into the context of my premise.
QCs ideas are sound as are Mike00s. They are very honest. Those folks here who want to continue spending money on plane tickets, hotels, apartments, flowers, presents, restaurants, agencies, Fiance.com, East West Match to be followed by wrestling with the immigration and the expenses of settling your new wife in can happily have my share.
So to Quiet Charm I say Ka Khun Krup and a very big Sawadee to everyone else. Goodbye for another couple of months.
Boys boys, this may be quite an emotional subject for some, but lets all remember we are all still gentlemen here!!
Nas, I recall reading a post here just a short week ago, talking about how things arent as bad as it used to be in the FSU. As inexperienced in FSU travel as i may be, i saw no hoards of homeless families sleeping in the street. Even though i may have been in some backwater of the FSU, i saw nothing like i have seen in Manila or even in Mexico.
Also, can we define "middle class", last time i checked the average american income ran about 36k. You can bring i girl here on that even though it would be tight. I doubt very seriously you are banking less then 40 or 50k a year and if u are, then the timer is clicking on your marrige. My marrige lasted 8 years, i only hope you are as lucky as i was. It was a wonderful 8 years. Best wishes, i hope i am wrong.
Mike00... love ur posts, even if i really dont understand all of it. hehe... but honestly, nobody shud be looking for a g/f in the red light districts of southeast asia. You can grab a real sweet province girl, who will be thrilled to death with average american joe.
QC
You are so right. The only reason that these guys criticize is that they haven't experienced what that life can be like. Mike00 refers to dreamers. With respect I think he is right, appalling grammar but right. FSU women are wonderful and there are a few that would make a good life companion. However the process of finding one is to put it mildly daunting. Frankly it is more trouble than it is worth. Having a Russian girlfriend, if you can afford it, is another thing entirely. The simple gratitude that QC talks about is as true as is the comment about having a good heart.
This experience he speaks of is not what most of you think. I will draw lightening for my brief comment and even briefer visit but I know he is right.
Saying that the Far East is an HIV infested deathtrap as has been suggested here is just not true. For navy personnel it could be because they are usually thinking of the Philippines. I rent a room to a guy who was a skate and he has told me much about the perils of PI. Many American sailors have died there and the clap is a way of life. However this is far removed from modern Bangkok, Pattaya, Chiang Mai or Bhuket.
This is a comment I got from an agency owner that I know in Kherson, Ukraine.
“The Soviet Union is large, you have a lot of chances, but the level of life get's better and the women's demands also grow, we work for nine years and can see a great difference.”
i think king arthur ive hit a raw nerve kisses dear ha ha you bite well !! and yes viva i found my part time thai girl in a province --
Il have to say by's by's to her soon it getting on my concience -a ride is a ride but you know i love my russian .
Russia not as bad as it was mate my first trip in january 1999 honestly i was under impression you know 1920's style wagons in the street wooden wheels and cabages falling of carts ! i mean if you have never been before ------what are you to expect ? you only know whats spoken to you .
Believe me still iam sure 95% of aussies won;t go to russia because they see on tv wars guns / spy's its put's em right off .
then they watch a repeat of the ''odessa file '' tear up thier tickets sitting on the couch .
Ive tried to get few aussies to come with me mate to russia well heeled blokes too but no way will they do it ay !
average usa income mate 36K --id starve to death --hey dinkum last year mate i averaged work / history work and other interests 13.5 k a month end of 2006 i went out and borrowed 8k dinkum i did .
My income now is just only just keeping up with lifestyle --of course lifestyle is 1st everything else is last --------he whom dies with 10k still in bank is a failure Flynn said that --what a life he had ! died on the nest = proud of him = my hero !
What did he have so they say 12,000 affairs hes a champion luv im ! mans got style !
So ive only got 11934 affairs to catch up ------man i'l run out of years ?
Whats the pinnacle of the ultimate dirty old man --------die age 94 in arms of 18 year old lol lol lol.........you can do that in russia --lol lol .
Remember 1 you miss out on ---------you never catch up on !and if they never had good front end the romance gear they'd all be in the council tip ay .
told sweetheart that old saying -------lucky she never picked up on it lights were on but nobody home thank f-----k for that id have been couch fodder for 3 months ay .
Well 10 days to go now before the plane to russia -----ive told blondie get the place ready -I THINK MY DARLING IS STARTING TO HAVE VISIONS OF WEDDING BELLS il have to put some cold water on that idea why wreck a good relations with a ring --ahhh shock horror !!!!what and end my vagabonding days at age 49 i dont think so !!! 69 i will hang up the saddle but not 49 my god !
What about my poor mate over hear went to ukraine see his darling she said to him darlink only hear 9 day ''ohh is wrong time of month'' --he turned green !! near gave her a gangster slap lol .
i think it might be quite interesting for aboriginal people in the outback of Australia.
we will wait for the standard readable english version of MIKEOO post translated in to plain English at a later date.
Since the Three Asian buddys claim so much merit there, you should spend some time posting on a board that shows the merit of Thailand. Which personally I think is a shit hole isn't nearly as modern as some claim here. Modern and clean in Asia, then it's Singapore. I've been to Bangkok and Pattaya Beach. Per capita more prostitutes in Thailand than any other country.
Izzi you claim only one percent get lucky in the FSU, but you know three guys that have done it. So post that next time for your one percent. So put your damn lists a way and quit trying to be so fucking cheap and treat a woman like she should be treated.If you would have quit copying Toad so damn much, you would have been miles ahead. When you put demands on a person, make goddamn sure you are willing to meet those same demands. You don't expect a woman to demand anything. Shit man, she's leaving everything she's known and done her whole life to live with you. I think she can have certain demands.
Viva you didn't see homeless in Ukraine. Well you didn't look very hard. Then again it's really difficult to tell being in a strangeland. They are there. You can see them in many places in Kiev without looking very hard. Time is ticking on your marriage for making only 36k a year? What a load of bullshit. What about those South American and Thai girls, I'm sure the clock also runs. Anyone that is complacent and willing just to punch a clock and stay constant in there money aims deserve what they get. Hell 40-50k isn't that much difference than 36k. It doesn't take much work to achieve 50k from 36k if you are willing to work and take some small risk. Ukrainian women understand our monetary situation better than some claim here. It didn't take long to explain to my wife what she needed to know. She's grasps it, but not 100%.Credit as freely as we have it here is a mystery to them. She didn't have many material things compared to what we have here, but she was happy. Now the great Godsend for me is that since things were difficult back in Ukraine, she's very tight with a buck here. So the image of some Ukrainian Princess spending you into Bankruptcy is largely over stated.
I didn't totally understand QC's reason to start a thread that has nothing to do with finding a woman in the FSU. Find a Thai board. There's been plenty of frauds on this forum.
What is funny, many of the successful guys don't post anymore. I wonder why that is? Maybe because they read, and some still do,the bullshit that is posted here alot. There extremely busy like me. Still I post because I get up earlier in the morning and read on the PC, because the print media is boring as hell. Is finding a woman difficult in the FSU yes it is. It takes time, common sense and being truthful with them. Is it impossible, no way. If you are a decent guy using your brains you can find a great woman. If you're looking for someone half your age, goodluck. Why would it be any different there than here? Unless the union is not base on love alone.
So good luck guys on your Sex trips to Thailand. To me that's pretty shallow and maybe that's why you didn't fare so well in the FSU. The hypocricy to it all, is guys like Vanechka used to get hammered by you guys for his post's and now you post the same Malarkey that he did. You can't have it both ways. Well you can have it both ways, but that pretty much tells the story.
Something that I'd forgotten about but something that was explained to me earlier this year from the 'horses mouth', namely from my wife's best friend when my wife wasn't around, and I found it highly amusing because everything clicked into place, it all made sense:
It was explained to me, by a Ukrainian woman, that once a guy becomes involved with a Ukrainian woman it is 'traditional' that she will attempt to make him become submissive and of course this may include him spending excessive amounts of money on her and without argument or just running around after her as if like a dog.
But if and when he does become submissive she will lose her respect for him, lose interest in him, and move on to another guy to go through a similar process again, and again, until she finds a guy that may stand up to her. I found this particularly amusing because I thought back to the earlier days of my relationship with my wife, and boy did we have some BIG arguments, but this was all part of their 'mating ritual' and having got through that period we came out the other side with the best relationship and understanding of each other believable.
So I guess the word of warning may go out to the 'one trip wonders' that apparently there is this process and ritual to be followed, if you immediately and continue to shower her with gifts then you may be a 'submissive' in her eyes and if you haven't yet been through the 'mating ritual' then you may have that to come, at any time, and that's when she may lose interest in you.
martin
well that is certainly interesting having just come back from Kiev visiting one lady there. everything seemed to be going ok bewteen us but then she wanted to argue on the last day of my visit about the most little innocent observations- for example why i did not know many euros make 50 dollars .i did not have an instant answer to her question because being from england i do not deal in euros very often. after these daft arguements we had, she still wants to see me again ,so i guess i must be doing something correct in her eyes.
Ian,
The 'power of observation' comes into this, OK I work in Euros and Dollars as part of my work and I can quite easily and mentally convert GBP to either Euros or Dollars but to convert between Euros and Dollars, in the UK, I would need to go to my friendly www.xe.com.
But Ian, as you were walking around the streets of Ukraine, how many boards outside of exchange places did you see rates advertised of something like UAH5.1 = USD1 & UAH6.3 = EUR1 and didn't you observe that a dollar is worth approximately 80% of a Euro thus, just as a ballpark figure, 4 Euros = 5 Dollars?
But, the perfect answer to her would have been to ask her how many Swedish Krona, as an example, there are to the Australian Dollar :)
these ukrainian rituals and mind games that ukranian women play are totally bizzare.
still i guess it is better than flashing their tits at a man like they do in the u.k to get the attention of a man.
MATE the ukrainian women ive only met 2 in my time they are different il say that -different not in a good way .
Russia is a big enough job on its own ---------ukraine look i think they are much more money motivated than the russian counterpart .= dangerous ,
Now i will tell you something and saying this and witnessing others from my country whom have been down the same roads as ourselves , one observes a very common trait in amongst these woman that iam dead sure 95% of them all follow this manerism ( and its not nice ))
(A) they all seem to me and fellows i know with russian girls to be very short lived in the '' gratitude stakes '' you never get a thankyou --------------fact !
(B) Do 1000 good deeds they are all forgotten very quickly --------fact !
(C) They can as one chap stated on hear argue over trivia ( she argued over him not knowing exchange rate of euro / dollars whatever = why would she bother ???
Not that i defend western woman --but i could not imagine a bird from my country be she even the worst in town firing up an argument over what currecy was what -it really falls into a non- descript catagorie.
(D) Apprieciation to western guys is savoured = courtesy is free = use it nomatter where you are from --------fact
(E) Ive yet to see in total in my life a russian woman --including my own stand up and say gee thanks darling for that it means a lot to me ! etc etc -----
They have this habit that we see so much in second rate western woman that we are all trying to escape from -----of displaying --non apprieciation to the man .
In 7 years and 4 months of going to russia and living thier in that time for 31 months and with a total of 4 woman since 1999 --ive seen in all 4 this same -arrogance - have you guys witnessed it ???
I Personally know in aussie 3 good guys whom in the end all tossed the towel in on them for these displays of non apprieciation and just a general huge lack of courtesy - its free huh ( not even deciet they were basicaly just pigs )
why are they so dead against using coutesy !!!! anybody know ! because in my time and the time of others i do know --none of us have been able to come up with the answer .
Non gratitude in a place like russia where you have 86% living on bones of arss well hell somebody came and turned my life from rags to ritches i'd be near on bended knee forever ---------i dont mean that in the extream sence --but you know - one should never forget -whom has turned the ''muddy dirt road of life of thiers into the super smooth 6 lane highway.
I know i certainly would not forget the deed .
Non apprieciation is something that i personally would never ever have expected to find in a russian woman - its totally shocked me over the years --no excuse for it .
I will tell you why -i once read a story of a chap whom was visiting a guy in jail visiting days sunday at a minimum security jail in sydney this was in the 80's anyway this friend of the chap snuck him in a drink ----small bottle of bond 7 whisky ( now as we know --i hope you know -- a nice drink is savoured in the ''nick'') UPON presenting the chap under the table with the bottle --the crim looked and said ohh its bond 7 i dont drink that ! = idiot ---his mate risked 3 months in the joint to smuggle it in only to be told by an ingrate --that it was not his brand of drink !
Think about that what ive just said -------it really does reflect the beggars being choosers and you get the insult to boot.( the story of the guy in boob) does reflect upon the arrogance put forward by a majority of russian women.
AT DAYS END THESE WOMEN REALLY TRULY HAVE TO SHARPEN UP THIER MANNERS AND HIGHTEN THIER APPRIECIATION FACTOR TO WHOLE NEW LEVELS .
End of the day guys some things remain the same
(A) without us they will always have a big percentage of nothing ! thats a fact
(B) with us apprieciation should be shown when it is normally called for ! thats a fact .
EVEN MY OWN GIRL HEY BEFORE I DECIDE TO MARRY HER ALL THE ARROGANCE WILL HAVE TO BE GONE FOREVER AND THE YOU KNOW SELF CENTRED ATTITUDE THAT SEEMS TO BE BUILT INTO THEM.
lot only think of themselves first = no its not on !
i think lots will have to improve in russia --------and in a hurry too !
Mike00 You don't know Ukrainian women as well as I do. They're not as your represent. That's just your perception. It is also the perception I have of Russian women. Perceptions and opinions are like, well you know what.
As for turning one's life around they should be on bended knee? Hmmm, should I be on bended knee since she turned my life completely around? Is it always an economic thing we should be grateful for? That unless money and material have become one's spiritual influence and then I don't see how anyone can find happiness. It's so vacant and shallow.
Simply what many of the Politically Correct worlds find as arrogance from Russian and Ukrainian is pride. Something our politically correct mental midgets find horrible. My wife has a nationalistic pride. Something Maybe Americans and many others should embrace instead of this one world demographic. Why can't we all get along? Bullshit, they see through the concept completely and don't try to chase a concept so utopian because common sense rule their life more than ours. Nah, it's not arrogance, it something we have lost a long time ago and hopefully will find again.
Mike00 makes just too much sense. His observations match alot of what i found on my trip. I was thinking that somehow i missed the boat on the good things of the FSU, now i am thinking didnt miss anything.
Nas... you do make me think though, perception IS everything. We have all made our trips to the farflung corners of the planet, and it looks like those perceptions have put some of us at odds with each other. The planet is covered with good women everywhere, noone can dispute that. I would say that my whole opposition to looking for love in the FSU is that old methods are not working in the FSU as well as they still do in other places. I believe the scammers, (as well as sex tourists) have pushed the good girls out of the agency circles. I think all the critisism of FSU agencies is well founded and documented on the forum. So considering this broken model in the FSU, i must ask... why the FSU of all places!!! The good catches are still out there, but we cant get to them because of all the agency BS.
Izi makes a point about only 1% making it. You know of 3 three who have done it, but how many of dozens have we seen the last few years who have gone and failed. I am sure they all were not bad guys. I remember the 9 other guys from my trip. They were all stand-up guys, they did not deserve to get sucked into the agency scam. I still stand by my statement that the FSU is the worst place to look for love, the hurdles are just too high. Some get lucky like you Nas, the rest of us will move onto the greener pastures of southeast asia and latin america. Maybe one day i will return again to the FSU, but right now, i ask.. what for ???
1.
Just popped in to see if my post got restored. It was all kinds of messed up by the moderators. It is still all over the place.
Anyway, I read through all the stuff that had been posted since. Huge sigh!
Why do you paint such a negative picture of Thailand Nasfan? Everything you have written about the place is utterly not true. It is a darn sight easier to get stuff done there than in FSU. It has become a piece of the west - quite British rather than American in fact. It isn't filthy or disgusting. Go to Morocco - now we are talking filthy and disgusting.
Oops!
An opinion - perhaps I could belatedly ask for your permission to express it?
When that place got rolling in the early 1970's due to r & r trips by the AMERICAN troops maybe it was dangerous - I don't know because I wasn't there. Now it is one of the safest destinations in the world, a darn sight safer than Ukraine or Russia. The airport in Bangkok is astonishing. Knocks spots off Kiev! And they smile at you by God as you pass through! To think - pleasantness. Something the Russians could learn about. As for the only thing they want Mr. Mike00 is to have money pressed in their hands. What a joke! That is just about anywhere in the world especially the FSU - in spades!
It is not a shithole either it is beautiful and very charming country. It isn't all Pattaya you know. In the time I spent there I did quite a few more interesting things than I did in Russia, Ukraine or Latvia for a fraction of the cost.