Agree strongly with beemer on the implausible implausibilities of life occurring -- regardless of how well-read we are and how informed we are going into this.
Have I given up all hope to find a very pretty and very sincere girl in the FSU? Not yet... close and will take ALL advice given here to find out if such a thing as soul-mate does exist in this world.
I can go find a pretty wife and be miserable. In Colombia I had four girls that wanted me to marry them, but only one did I seriously consider it with. Was I being insincere? No, I just could not feel that deep-connection I would need in order for it to last a lifetime.
In FSU? It's where that deep-connection is telling me she is. It's the only reason I have not given up hope after having such a profoundly disturbing first meeting with a Pathological Sociopath. So much for sincerity on a guys behalf making this one go wrong... I only wrote her.
I like Thailand and the Phillipines. And I like the modern, semi-industrial feel of Ukraine. Each place has its bad places, but I prefer remembering the good things I found there that do not condemn the place.
Maybe I could go grab a very pretty Thai/Filipino but that deep-connection does not compell me to do this. And I think its great advice for others to open up their horizons to Asia and the more modest countries in Latin America.
My deep connection says my soul mate is in the FSU, regardless of what personal experiences I have already had and others have had about meeting the worst, seeing the worst of the place. I have not been able to shake this feeling she is there - to this date.
Now if I am wrong, after all that I have learned from you guys who have been successful? Then shame on me for not listening to my own advice on how best to avoid the next immoral and insincere girl I write to. I have learned a lot more than I thought I already knew after being her for a few weeks. So thank you guys.
On my life, I hope my soul-mate exists somewhere in this world... I miss my best-friend...
Think I've just read one of the most insightful posts ever on this forum....(well said Nas).Promptly followed by some pretty deep thinking by beemer and apal too.
For the newbies take time to read these posts thoroughly,they will tell you the mindset of the success and future success stories.For some reason Izi keeps choosing to use the forum as his soapbox to snipe at others.Is there a genuine reason for that Izi?
No-one begrudges you your opinion,freedom of choice is something we all have the good grace to possess,and it seems strange that you continue to take cheap shots at the FSU.......you've had your go and it didn't work,and for whatever reason you've decided to look elsewhere.Thats fine,it's your life and your choice.
There really is no right way or wrong way,each person is a unique individual,and no two requirements will ever be the same.As I've said many times before,if you really want something then if you have the determination to find it you will succeed or come damn close in trying.But above all you will know you have tried your best and there may well be some disappointment,but rarely any bitterness.
The losers will lose wherever they are,because that is their way........and then blame everything but themselves.If somethings aren't working for you in life,in relationships,in love......CHANGE YOUR METHODS....it isn't rocket science,just good old common sense.......now where have I heard that before??
Apal, it was more than three visits in two years I made three alone in 2005. It was also her choice not to hurry to the K1, she wanted to make absolutely sure she wanted to leave Ukraine, sure that it was love that she was leaving for. I respect her for thinking long and hard about living a lifestyle and culture she had known for 42 years of her life. Shithole as some may call it, it was her home and what she knew and I respect her for it. Pretty much shoots the a hole in the cunning and lying Ukrainian women that some like to post here.
Yep Rome is burning here and I'm the angriest man in the world what a joke. I will tolerate anyone's opinion, but what I won't tolerate is a onesided broadbrushed labeling of all the women in Ukraine. I don't pretend to know what ignorant people here are sure of.
Nas, yeah I don't like cutting down all FSU women. I had my encounters with the worst possible and also some of the best types of sincere women . It helps when you do meet sincerity to balance out your impressions of a place when you experience something to its opposite.
I just hope my soul-mate is just a wee bit more speedy. :) She probably truly recognizes your sincerity and patience eventually. By all intents and purposes it seems like you have a winner who will stay with you for the entire journey and not just the short haul. Good job! :)
Wow, I've just read the single most incredulous post. Izi you got the the gall to call me angry and shrill and you have the audacity to air another persons dirty laundry in a forum. Actually your jealousy of some peoples success has hit a new low. After meeting Skired, I don't get this feeling that you guys are warm and fuzzy. I think you probably know less about his life than I do and I know very little, but you will stoop so low to trash someone else her to prove your point. Did you get that directly from the horses mouth or third hand gossip. You have proven to me beyond a doubt what a low life you really are.
You want to challenge me directly, thats fine. You and Viva email each other often I'm sure about that. Bring your small minded attacks in this forum to disrupt others from searching. Your failures have lead to an incredible jealousy that you now resort to trying to destroy others from seeking this opportunity. Your constant bitching about money is sure sign of a socialist with the highest level of class envy. If someone else is doing good, you must be getting screwed some way. Your bad choices in women is no way reflective of guys who have made good decisions about the women they have brought back here and married. I'm beginning to believe through your vile descriptions of women from the FSU, theives, money hungry, cunning, I think were some of the adjectives you've used in the past, pretty much is your own self potrait. You've described Marina as an unstable human being. When the truth be known, she's probably pretty stable and saw through your facade. Knowing a little bit of the submissve culture of women in southeast asia, this fits your brand of woman. One that won't question you, one you can push around and pull your BS on. One with intelligence and backbone scares guys like you.
You identify a healty relationship in Thailand as arragnements. That's vacant. You've have based a relationship down to the basics of sex and security, that defines to me you can't hold down a healthy relationship. You have described that the only way a relationship can survive from the FSU is with money and money only. Because you can't make a relationship work on 40k a year doesn't mean another guy can't. It breaks down to the individual and what he's willing to sacrifice to make it work. I get the feeling you think you shouldn't sacrifice anything. Refer to the girl from Kherson, who you said she thought her beauty could buy here way anywhere. With some reflection, maybe you thought with your shortcomings you could buy her?
Let's put it in perspective. The only relationship that is really working that you know, our mutual friends in Naples. Is it working because of his status in life? Does that make you jealous that he sacrificed his time and mind to achieve what he has done? Lets take a step further, lets say he isn't what he is, would he still succeed. You bet, it's not financial it is being a class human being that works, it's called character, which you are woefully lacking. I've met many people in my life, but he is without a doubt one of the most decent human beings I've had the pleasure to meet. His wife, treated us like gold when we were there. I'm sure you probably have some disdain for her since she speaks her mind. Mature people don't hold animosity for differences of opinion. You think you can come in here and broadbrush a culture and it's women without taking some heat for it. Well you have the right to say what you want, but that doesn't mean it will pass without taking some heat for it. Especially since it is so one sided and blinded by jealousy. See in your mind, you should be able to say what you want and not be held accountable for it. Discourse to you is an evil thing, you describe me as an angry individual, because the elite of thought is anger is a horrible emotion. When it's controlled it is a viable emotion. I'm far from angry but it's one of the buzz words you can use to label and disredit a person who vehemently disagrees with your position.
Your intellectual dishonesty, which is based on a one sided view, to destroy the opportunity for others to succeed, is based only on your failures and a few others that you ally yourself with now. Just look at the common denominator between you and the one's who have been successful. Be real honest. I don't know what tomorrow will bring, and my articulate wife has put our relationship in a wonderful perspective. Anyone can make a living, making a life is a totally different thing.
You won't air your personal life here, but you will describe the women of the FSU as greedy, cunning and evil. Based on what your personal experience? Cite the cases and why, bring some content here instead blaming just them as the bad ones. I seem to recall when you went to see Marina that you got so silly drunk as to split your head open. I'm sure that impressed her beyond all belief. Hell she can walk across the street and find that kind of guy.
I've met a few guys wives here and they aren't even close to what you describe. This weekend we are going to visit Dittus and his wife, she is truly one jewel of a human being. I had to tell her to settle down last time we visited, we didn't expect to be waited on hand and foot. We got the same treatment down in Naples. Funny thing the three of us come from diverse backgrounds and income status.
No, I won't let you get away with labeling women the way you do, since I know a few of them and none of them are anything that you describe. So go back to your check lists and your prenups and come back when you have some posts worth the content.
Damn - I swear I could hear the screams of someone on fire and the sirens in the background from the firetruck coming along to put out the flames with that last one.. ;0
No flames apal, just some fact. What I don't understand and I never will. Is when guys fail in the FSU, the template is set, their gold diggers, their greedy, their not stable, their this and their that. Then when I hear some of the horror stories from my wife, about men that had come to visit women in Ukraine I just shake my head in amazement. No wonder these guys can't find a girl in their home area. They hold out for the diamonds in the rough, average guys with brains and character. Some wealthy others just average, but they have a common denominator. The FSU is not their sexual playground, they are serious marriage minded men, which my wife tells me now is few and far between. There are some notorious women over there, but not anymore than your local gals. I've lost more with my ex than I ever will with my wife now, I used to feel bad because mine cost me 800 grand until I met a chap in FL that his cost him over a mil. Cheered me right up LOL!!
If you fail, I think you need to look back at yourself. Instead of coming out and blaming a whole entire culture. Why thailand or the PI? There isn't any difference no matter where you go except some minute cultural differences. Women can be as cunning and evil in any culture, the FSU does not have the market cornered.
I don't feel sorry for the guys who use agencys and get burned. I've tried to warn many of them to seperate your girl from the agency influence as quickly as possible, if you can't then you need to find another woman who has the courage to do so. It will pay well in the long run. If she walks from the agency, you know damn well she's serious about meeting a guy, if she isn't, she's do insecure for me and chances are she's just a commodity for the agency and she has little if any intention of leaving or marrying a foreigner.
Here is my first response from a Filipina or alleged Filipina I sent a letter to:
" hi..thanks to your letter..i like it..your soo good to me..hope this is the way to know you more much better..i want to chat to you always but i cant..because i only rented to my neighbor computer..i love to have my own computer or laptop..soo we can chat everytime..hope you understand me, this is for our own start communicate for each other..take care alway..i love to be your girlfriend.."
Now I am fully aware there are probably many genuine women from just about every country looking for a husband on-line. All I am pointing out is that one will probably have to go through many snakes both on-line and off-line to get to a decent woman no matter which country you look in. This is not just true for FSU countries and the Phils. It is true for all of them.
How in the heck can a guy not realize if a girl is interested enough to marry you - she will drop the agency with no qualms. A serious girl would not remain in the agency when she makes her decision on you. It's a gamble for her, but there are other agencies she can go to if it ever comes to that for her.
2clue - snakes are everywhere, some have deep poison and some just gouge you.
Apal, it's a huge gamble for the ladies. When they do this the agency drops them like they have the plague. My wife, who did this, found it out the hard way. She had heard so much BS about what documents she needed for the interview etc. She was told she needed apostille for all her documents from her friends locally, I told her no she didn't, so she trusted me, but went to verify at the agency, they looked at her like she was some bum that rolled in off the street. Treated her rude as hell. All these girls are to an agency is income production. They are not there to help them find a mate overseas. I told her to call the Embassy in Kiev if she wanted verification of what I told her. She did and found out I wasn't as big an idiot as her friends said I was.
Agencys could give a shit less, that's why I encourage all guys to find a way to seperate your girls from the agency mind control. If they don't want to do this, move on to one who will. Don't waste your time and money with girls who won't. My wife has told me of translators that intentionally sabatoge communications because they see the relationship moving to the next level and neither party is the wiser, unless you get your own translator that works for you and is paid by you directly.
Agreed nas... Forgot your girl was in Mariupol... the other agency would have blackballed her and the others might have followed suit... word gets around faster in a smaller town I suppose.
Did she speak any English at all when you first met?
Agreed again - on the agency not being above sabotaging a relationship. It happened to me so I would be encouraged to woo the new girl they had me meet through their services upon my return back home... $$$ I was one of their dream customers... I am the type to tip a translator. :)
I kind of laugh apal, Mariupol is about one million people, We now live in a small town of 15,000 which she refers to as a villiage.
She spoke very little english, that didn't stop our ability to communicate, via dictionarys and she had a friend who did some translating when I called. This was also the other reason she to time to arrive in the states, she located an English teacher for 60 bucks an month and a year later her English abilities were exponentially better. She learned on the fly after about 4 months we didn't use a translator on our phone conversations we both struggled through it, me with Russian and her with English, it was a blast, though sometimes frustrating but a great experience overall.