i have been to ukraine 4 times in the last 16 months and i have in total during those 4 visits met 15 ladies.
2 of the ladies i did meet again and i was happy to pay for their food drinks restaurants taxi fares etc and even paid for her to stay in apartment near to me.
one lady i was very comfortable with and she was happy to be with me and we had 9 days together. then when i got home to u.k she requested 500 dollars from me for some documents for her student exchange visit to usa she said she needed.Shocked i did not believe her and i cut off all contact with her.
without going into too much detail here,- i visited Another ukranian lady about 10 months later. we got along fine nice photos of us together,days out, food talk etc. i returned to u.k and Again we stayed in contact by text and e mail. then days later came a request from her for 280 dollars for medical treatment she said she needed. unbelievable i thought. i stopped all communication with her. Do these women have no pride? Food accomodation ,transport YES. Dubious Requests for money NO.
i have come to the conclusion that a lot but NOT all Ukranian are motivated by money in their realtionships with a man.
i have noticed that there are very few ladies from Latvia and Lithuania that seek a man from western european countries- i guess this is down to the fact that Latvia and Lithuania are now in the E.U european union and the Ukaraine is NOT.
i guess i have learned from this experience. i will not return to Ukraine to seek my wife.
Stmac
i agree with your findings as i too have had this experience when i visited 6 years ago now. It would appear this mentality does exist in a lot of women in Ukraine. It is unnerving. I think there are some ladies there that are Not motivated by money there But they are very few and difficult to find.
i myself became quite depressed and disillusioned by this mentality in ukraine women and looked elsewhere. I went to Czech republic to seek my partner and i am pleased that we have been together now for 2 happy years.
I pray to God that Ukraine stays out of the EU. It will be the best for them in the long run. Only 2 out of the 15 asked for money? Wow the percentages are dropping. Maybe, just maybe out of the other 13 50% were real women not looking for a meal ticket. I just wonder why you didn't write about the other 13 and only slam the two since you're conclusion was NOT all Ukrainian women are motivated by money. What motivated you to pass on the other 13 or why did they pass on you? That would be more interesting to hear.
Before selling the wonders on the Baltics and the EU, get to know some real Ukrainians first.
I agree nasfan, seems to me the other 13 were either not attractive enough or had no interest in StMac. The
only 2 that did were the ones only interested in being taken care of $$$$.
I have found girls that fit both catergories, just have to find one that is truely genuine.
I find that many Ukrainians are more direct about some issues which we prefer to be more subtle about. It does not necessarily mean they are more or less materialistic than people from other countries. Also look at it from their perspective. Can this man support me? Lets test him. Oh another cheap bastard who doesnt talk to me if I start talking trifling sums of money!
If you have met and started developing a relationship then you need to understand that the money will have to start to flow to maintain that relationship.
The point i was trying to make is that when an initial bond or friendship is established and regular meetings occur with a woman in Ukraine, the dubious requests for money are demanded.Though i guess from your post you would disaggree with my personal observations on this matter.
StMac,
I too met with some 15 ladies but over the course of some 5 years and whilst not all of them were Ukrainian they were from FSU.
Now the scenario you mention, which I did not experience, is typical 'scam' and is normally 'got over' during the letter writing stage and before any meeting, never mind after any meeting.
Thus, I find myself questioning, from where did you source these ladies, which internet site or agency? I ask because you were obviously doing something wrong to experience what others haven't?
I'll also agree with you about the apparent lack of ethics. Here's an interesting tid-bit about a personal experience I had involving some strange ethics.
In 1978 when I was traveling in what was then Czechoslovakia I was arrested and thrown in jail for J-walking on a street in Prague. I spent two days in a lousy stinking filthy jail in Prague ..... for J-Walking ! This was in the days of the Communist era. There was no such thing as "constitutional rights." I was searched, stripped of all my possessions, passport, money, belt and shoe laces. (I guess they didn't want me hanging myself over J-Walking).
It was two days before I get a visit from some low level official at the US Embassy. He explained to me that what had really happened was that I'd been caught in a "shake down" for some hard currency.
It seems in those days, the Czechs and most in the eastern block were convinced that the Communist system would eventually collapse, and when it did, their currency would become worthless. So, all the folks in the eastern block were always interested in a "Hard" currency which would survive the eventual collapse in order to simply save money. This led to the currency black markets with which we are all familiar. It also led to "shake downs" of westerners.
The embassy official told me to offer "them" (meaning my jailers) $50 USD and I'd be out of jail in about 15 minutes. Sure enough, he was right.
I've had almost 30 years to reflect on the experience. I've long since concluded that there was a very strange sense of ethics operating there. They already had all my money, my wallet, my credit cards. I had Deutch Marks, Sterling and USD in my wallet. They could have taken whatever they wanted. But that would have been steeling. They could have asked for a bribe, but that apparently would have been unethical. But throwing a poor 19 year old kid in jail for two days until someone from the Embassy smartened me up, well, they didn't seem to have much of a problem with that. Taking my offer of a $50 USD bribe seemed to be just fine with them ..... after I offered.
Strange ethics, or am I missing something ? My guess is that there are ethical values in play in the eastern block that those in the west will simply never understannd.
harantis,
You don't have to go to CZ for sh1t treatment, it happened to me in Oostende, Belgium when they accused me of being drunk ..... how dare they :)
Having all my possessions, including my airport ID card, they only let me out the next morning, despite being 'allegedly' still way over the limit, because, them thinking that I was a pilot, I told them that I had a flight to operate and I would not be driving to the airport :)
It's OK to fly an aeroplane but not drive a car ..... that's Oostende for you :)
With as many great beers as there are to be had in Belgium, one can easily understand having one or two too many.
Kidding aside, mere "bad treatment" is really a different issuee. Bad treatment is not a monoploy held by the east. Shakedowns, on the otherhand, does seem (or did at the time) to be the province of non-Western countries, and not just the eastern block. The middle east simply would NOT function without payola.
StMac, the interest would lie in why the other 13 didn't qualify? As for dubious request for money after many meetings, means you have met some dubious characters. That didn't happen to me and my wife is Ukrainian. Actually, she found it somewhat condescending to be offered money. Like she couldn't take care of herself. The only time she asked for money, is she thought it would be cheaper to have dental work done in Ukraine versus the USA. Which in the long run, the work had to be redone due to some inferior dental work. Seems to be more than justs marriage agency scams in Ukraine.
Relationships based on money doesn't seem to be much of a relationship to me. I kind of agree with Gemini above, maybe they are trying to separate the wheat from the chaff, the chaff being another cheap bastard, then we have extremes on the other side, where some guys feel that money can influence someone to love them. That is a fraud in itself. Or because of the economic stature of their country, they can buy many more things in a third world country, then they can in their home country. To me, giving someone daily necessities, in a third world country, and acting as your some great savior is a joke in itself. Wow, that's really impressive, you can buy things for much less money here, than back at home.
As for being unethical, Ukrainians don't have that market cornered. Anyone who believes that is the case needs to get out of their house a little more. There are more than our share of unethical hypocrits that post in this forum. Which is far more worse than some lady asking you for money.
My point was basically scammers I have met dont usually wait more than 2 hours before trying to go shopping or moaning how their mobile phone was lost or stolen. If you went a week and she asks for a minor amount I would suggest having a conversation. The visa/document requirement thing is 99% scam. The medical thing ask for the bill. Maybe it is genuine. If you thought she was worth persuing Im sure that the money shouldnt be an issue.
If you have met and had a good time is it worth the risk?
It goes to show here the "scam" dubious requests for money do happen during and after a personal visit to a lady in the FSU.
Why is it, it seems the majority of scammer girls come from Ukraine.
I believe, yes you should entertain, your lady when you go for a visit and pay for normal things such as meals and transport but you need to draw the line at what you are going to pay for before you arrive.
Don't pay for expensive jewellery, fur coats, computers or luxury items that you would not pay for if you dated a girl in your own country such as USA,U.K etc.
This is only a meeting..essentially a blind date so you should not be paying anymore than fro meals, transport and light entertainment.
If a lady takes you on a shopping spree and wants expensive items, then she is nothing more than a gold digger or not serious with you, so don't get fooled and pay!
When you finish with the visit and go home, don't send her any money and if you are in the fiance visa process, pay only expenses associated with getting that visa and nothing more.
She survived without your money before you arrived and meet her..she can survive afterwards as nothing has changed so don't give her money, especially for medical expenses, english lessons or unusual requests not associated with getting a visa ( pay visa application fees and medical check fees for the visa direct to embassy and organise non refundable air ticket to her when visa is approved..send no cash for the air ticket ).
Never send her money by western union if she asks it.
Its a shame a lot of Ukrainian girls on the internet are gold diggers and its hard to find the few that are honest and genuine.
Be alert and careful and if she wants money ( unusual requests, gold digging ), then dump her.
Excellent advise aussieman. My ex-fiancee from Kyiv, still writes to me with the latest twists in the adventures of her agency colleagues and their shopping trips (though they do shag for it). Either that or the trips to Dominica to meet their American beau. They always come home. As she did, after getting to England on a fiancee visa and then returning to Kyiv. I don't consider I was scammed by buying a TV, DVD player, half the UA back-catalogue, a winter coat from Fenwick's (for spring), a Turkish holiday (with me), shoes........ oh shit!
Simferopol! What is it about the place? So many women popping up from there. Any particular reputation/local customes to be aware of. Are matters more desperate there, or what. It's just that I'm off to see someone there in a few weeks.
I might disagree with one point of yours. Though you didn't elaborate on it enough. English lessons. Yes they did survive before we arrived and I have always touted that because of too many idiots with the savior mentality. I think when you reach a comitted relationship, paying for English lessons should be the guys responsibility. You're asking them to incurr an expense that they wouldn't necessarily have. My wifes English was functional. Though to survive in an english speaking society her vocabulary had to increase for her own sanity and communication. It was amazing in one year the level of her speaking ability changed.A credit to her intelligence. A good english teacher in Ukraine will run between 45 and 60 dollars a month. If they ask for more, you're getting scammed. When she got here in the states she continued her lessons. Which were offered to her for free since she was an immigrant. Amazing, how we bend over backwards for other nationalities and don't help the ones at home.