Copied this from another website. This guy Brett makes some very valid points.
Life is Better in the Ukraine
There are “good girls” and “bad girls” in the Ukraine. Many men fall into the trap of choosing the wrong ones. This is about them.
Life is better in Ukraine than America? How can this possibly be true? After all the average monthly income in Ukraine is $170.00 and even in the “rich” capital Kiev the average monthly income is still only $200.00! Sadly life is better here.
Many Americans, and westerners, come to the Ukraine and they do not understand why the women are mostly not interested in them. Well, the sad fact is, their life is better here! What can you offer them that is better than they have?
You can offer them a great comfortable house, with a great bed, fantastic soft couch, wall to wall carpet, a beautiful lawn and two cars in the garage. That is not what she wants! What she values here in the Ukraine is going to discos with here friends. She wants to have very expensive clothes, at least a thousand dollar outfit.
She wants to sit in the café, smoking a cigarette, sending SMS messages on her $300.00 cell phone and looking cooler than anyone else in the café.
Where in America will she be so cool? She places high value on having very showy material goods and appearing like she is somebody. Her best day is going to the new disco in town with all of her VERY expensive belongings and smoking away and being sooooo cool. Where else can she live like the advertisements in the newspapers?
What you say? Yea, real cool! She has maybe $2.00 in her pocket and will go home to an apartment without hot water that has six people living in two rooms and sharing one old Soviet toilet.
As strange as it seems THIS IS A BETTER LIFE! We westerners have a very difficult time perceiving their values. And they do have very different values.
I was once in Kherson Ukraine and an old man asked me if life was better in America that Kherson. I replied yes, we have eight hours of water in America. (Most apartments in Kherson have only 6 hours of water every day. Electricity is turned off from 11:00 PM to 7:00AM). By the way, that is water, not HOT water.
So the women in Kherson go out to the discos with their one and only outfit and life is better for them, especially if you will help them with money. Most women here are not looking to leave but have a great time, and it can be at your expense and emotions. The last place they want to live is where everyone wears the “American Uniform”, blue jeans and tennis shoes. Come here in the summer and look for a woman wearing shorts. You will have a difficult time. They wear skirts! Oh yea, sorry the woman in the shorts with the fat butt will be an American.
Now there are many very nice and honest women here who really do want a better life. Unfortunately, a great deal of the women who are here have a far different perception of what is a quality life than we do.
This has all been said a little tongue in cheek, but we must understand that the world does not live by the American dream.
So, come on over. The water is fine. There are good women here but we must take things realistically and not think our world is superior to everyone.
Brett
Brett Ousley
President Kiev Connections
American Owned and Managed Agency
Kiev Connections
Oh - one thing Brett obviously didn't mention. They LOVE having noogas come over, guys who can't afford to rent apartments but claim to be in the market to buy them. The also LOVE the idea of buying and cooking food for noogas afet being taken to tea a few times. Thats right up there with going to discos in thousand dollar outfits and looking rich.
I have to agree with what Brett said. Dressing up, smoking, discos, hanging out with friends and playing with the cell phone. It's all true. I've seen it in Russia and in Ukraine. IMO, the majority of FSU women are not going to leave their country because some westerner shows up. Many of us work hard at our jobs to save up money and fly to the FSU. We go there because we're serious about finding a woman for a relationship leading to marriage. The FSU women think nothing of it and it's a shame. They'll hang out with you, but that's about it. They are close with their families, which is fine. I understand and accept that. My recommendation for guys is to ask the women if they are, indeed, serious about leaving their country for a man. Otherwise, the trip is a waste...unless you enjoy traveling and sightseeing.
I know there are some people on here who still "believe" in finding an FSU woman. Best of luck. And I know there are some people on here who have found love and are married or will marry. Congratulations. I'm not involved with this anymore, but I like to read the message board to see what's happening and add a post here and there.
Brett isn't exactly helping himself with a letter like that, even if it's tongue and cheek. If he wants to make money, he should be talking about how FSU women want to meet western guys for a chance at love and a happy life in ANOTHER country.
BTW, I used his agency in 2004 because the girl that supposedly liked me, during my trip to Lugansk, turned out to be a phony. So...I decided to meet someone in Kiev before flying home. I went out on a date with a girl from Kiev Connections (KC). We had a good time. But she told me that she's not leaving Ukraine. She wanted to start her own marriage agency. LOL I didn't bother asking her, "Why the heck are you on KC in the first place?" I was at the "whatever" stage. She told me that she wanted to be removed from the site. As I predicted, her internet marriage agency business turned out to be a bust and is out of business. With only 4 or 5 profiles to look at, it's kinda tough to make a living on that. :-)))
People from the FSU are proud of where they live. For the most part...our romantic letters, flowers and appearances aren't enough to get them to say goodbye to their homeland.
I have to agree totally with what David has said and the owner of Kiev connections has said.
This is the reality of it.
I am out of this business too.
You are naive if you think you can go over to the FSU, be it Ukraine, Russia or wherever and expect to sweep her off her feet and make her leave ehr homeland for you because 99.99% of the time it wont happen and you have wasted your money.
I have meet in real life other Aussie guys off this forum, who have gone to Ukraine and seen all this for what it really is, young women living the high life over there, all show in the one outfit and fancy mobile phone and living like paupers to our standards but they love life there and don't want to change it.
There circle of friends and family, the social networking is the most important thing to these Ukraine and other FSU girls..its part of there culture, they won't give it up and come to a strange foreign country with no friends or family!
For once we have comments in this forum that mirror the reality of it and not have the tripe here spilled by guys who are naive and unrealistic.
A Ukraine women has got to be desperate to leave her country for a foreign man and when she comes to the US, Australia etc. she finds loneliness and does not like the life here and gets homesick and goes home before her fiance visa 3 month period is up and does not marry.
Yeah, lots of guys get fiance visas and get the FSU girl over BUT what is not said in this forum is for example, in United States, soemthing like 90% of fiance visas granted to Ukraine and Russian girls, they don't go through with the marriage and end upo going back home at the end of the 3 month period and treat it like one big holiday while the poor guys is left really financially burnt and thousands of dollars out of pocket with a lot of time and emotions wasted!
In most cases theres nothing wrong with the poor guy..he is the victim, its these bloody FSUgirls, they decide they don't like life in the West and miss there friends, families and hanging out at the discos back home, so they shaft the guy and go home and a lot of it is because these girls have some preconceived idea of what life is like in the West ( like out of a movie fantasy ), come over, find life is nothing like that in reality, get disillusined very quickly and go back home and love of the man will not hold them to you, they love there life back home in the FSU better than any foreign man and if she does marry you and divorce you latter on, its likely she will go back to her home country because to them life is better in the Ukraine or Russia or whatever part of the FSU.
The kind of disco loving, hanging with friends is exactly describes what one of my old Krivoy Rog girl was like, 25 years old, would love to meet a foreign guy and have him as a guest in her country and have him pay for her entertainment but she will never leave her country for any foreign men, foreign guys visiting them is like a novelty to them, you become a show pony over there, you pay for everything, you get no committment and there was never any intention of committment to a relationship or marriage, your just a temporary friend to be used for entertainment, a walking wallet so as to speak and YOU END UP GOING HOME WITH NOTHING BUT DISAPPOINTMENT BECAUSE SHE WILL LEAD YOU ON BUT NEVER COMMIT TO YOU..your just the novelty guest, the toy boy for entertainment expenses!
This happens all the time, there are maybe 1 out of 1000 meetings where real romance develops leading to a lasting marriage in your country with a Ukraina, the other 999 meetings are a waste.
Ukraine girls seem to do this the most..use the man, lure him over there as the novelty guest, get him to pay for everything, take him on a shopping spree so she gets her fur coats, laptops, jewellery and expensive designer brand cosmetics she can't afford on her pittance salary so the western stupe buys it for her and in the end he goes home with nothing..she says sorry, I don't love you and don't want to marry you and its all about short term material gain for them and then they move on to another Western idiot and repeatt the process all over again, its a great way to get things they can't afford, play on the naivety and stupidity of foreign men from Us etc. and get them to buy it first and at the end dump them and move on to the next stupe in line!
Some of it is pure scam, some of it are girls just playing men for there own entertainment and financial purposes eg. "this American is an ugly man, he might have nice personality but he looks ugly and I won't marry him but I will use him and get what I can out of him"..this is exactly the kind of thinking a lot of Ukraine young girls have going on in there "thought bubbles" and they don't care about whether its right or wrog to use someone for there own gain, they just do it, its there mentality and they won't loose sleep over it, this is the reality of it!
Come on guys,stop being so naive..would you buy a laptop pc for a girl on your first date in your home countries..wake up people and smell the coffee!
The young 20 somethings FSU girls are all like this.
I would not bother going over there for a meeeting..I have meet people who have been used by young Ukraine girls on the personal visit and they told me everything and advised me strongly not to go because you will be very disappointed and hurt in the end of it.
There's been a couple of 'very much so' generalisations here that an entire species of a nation are very much the same and that one can judge the majority by meeting, or hearing of, perhaps the minority.
In the Ukrainian culture there is a tendancy for the younger generation to show off, for lack of a better expression 'snobbery' still exists there and is perhaps becoming more and more commonplace amongst the younger generation.
An example of this is if a man buys lady 'A' a gift then lady 'A' will brag to lady 'B', lady 'B' will want a more expensive gift from her man, she will brag to lady 'C' and so it goes on.
Whilst they might have just the one designer label outfit to be seen out in, a good but not top of the range mobile phone, etc. this is often merely for show, for showing off, and quite often the reality is that they are going home to a poverty type homelife whereas they are surviving on food than many a westerner would turn his nose up at, they are living is somewhat squalid and cramped apartments, almost certainly they will not have a car, they earn a pittance of a salary and have to, normally, travel on a clapped out public transport system etc. etc. etc.
Hardly a life of luxury or indeed a comfortable existence however the majority remain that they do not want to leave Ukraine, or whichever country, but there are plenty that do want to leave and often for very genuine purposes and not for 'scamming' purposes necessarily.
I love the "I'm out of the business quote." Some never got in the business in the first place. If your worried about parting 3-5 thousand dollars then "This business" isn't for you. You cannot comment on a culture unless you have experienced the culture. If the girl you're talking with is out of "Your League" in your home country what the hell makes you think she is in your league living in another? Arrogance of your countries economic status? That's shallow in itself. The absolute failures in this search have the mentality that I can overcome all my shortcomings in life because I have a better economic status. I'm a misfit at home, but that's okay some goddess will fall at my feet in the FSU because of the opportunities I can provide. Well that's no basis for a relationship in the first place.
Having expectations beyond the reality is the greatest nurturer of failure here. The guys who can't find the commitment to a relationship aren't looking very smart. Intelligent communication isn't established from the beginning. They get used because they don't use the heads God gave them above their shoulders.
There's one guy currently on this forum, who I admire his steadfast approach. He isn't swindled by the beauty and is willing to find the woman that fits his personality and lifestyle. Though I don't necessarily agree with his approach, he has committed to finding a woman and if she's fails what he is looking for he moves on. I bet he has met some strikingly beautiful women but he hasn't fallen prey to that.
If you look at this as a zero sum game then that's what you will get, zero. If approached intelligently it is extremely rewarding. What's a lifetime of happiness worth? Over 95% of the women can be excluded from most guys with the use of common sense and not making a single trip and wasting your precious money that you are so worried about.
90% go back home? Really based on what experience do you have of that? Something you may have read on the internet? Having never stepped foot in the USA or meeting any woman in the FSU I wonder how the guy above can make that claim? The guys I've personally met who are married to ladies from the FSU have one thing in common. How many guys has the poster met above that are married to women in the FSU? Anything rewarding in life takes risk and preparation. Two things many failures refuse to address in this search. I remember Vince Lomardi's quote, "By failing to prepare, you are preparing to fail." Solid advice for about anything in life, including the search for a woman from the FSU.
A Ukrainian woman has to be desperate to leave her country? Really then, you must be desperate also since you were looking once. So who is the biggest loser? The arrogance exudes in that statement alone and tells a girl all she needs to know. If she's willing to leave her country without some considerable thought about what she's doing you're in over your head already. Then again that's using common sense which many of the "losers" fail to acknowledge.
The poster above was looking at a 25 year old who he thought he could steal her beauty and youth with gifts and a better economic life. He broke the steadfast rule about sending money to someone he never met. I bet this 25 year old was drop dead beautiful, but the poster himself proclaims he is in his 40's and a little chubby. Not much for a girl to think about if he isn't willing to get himself in good physical shape. He becomes their lawful prey.
What's wrong with looking at the drop dead gorgeous 35 year old or 40 year old? They are there. No it's about filling the ego, look at me with the 25 year old clothes horse I have on my arm. Aren't I the stud. What a joke. What a dismal outlook on life.
All you have to do is read what many of the naysayers write and you can conclude from their postings why they failed. It's in between the lines if you read it well enough. Just like the guys who have succeeded. It's in between the lines.
Sure the girls want to be close to their families and friends. But there are many Ukranian women who are prepared to leave Ukraine for a better life in Mosocow, Poland Budapest, Prague becasue these places are closer and not so unfamiliar than their country.
Likewsie many Russian women are prepared to emigrate - just look at the number of middle class Russian couples dotted around the world the past 5 or so years.
But for sure these ladies will want everything. And eveything they cannot have if you live far away and it is too much of a sacrifice for most of these girls when to do so for a man who just comes and visit her from time to time is just not going to lead to a emigration to another country as a united couple, is it now?
The disco, smoking, cell phone chatting, partying life style is not what I want from a wife. Why would I look there for a wife?
It would be naive to think a gal would give that up if that's what she's into AND to think that I'd find something different in a disco filled with smoking, cell phone shopping partying girls.
I hope women of quality still exist--and I'm not talking just beauty.
BATMAN, I 100% agree with you. That is why we are searching there, because we have been TOLD that women are all princesses over in UKRAINE. Now we are being told that they are nothing but filthy smoking, wannabe hollywood partyin skanks...
danny the truth you tell is through your eyes and what you experience where you are at.Doesn't mean that everyone should look through your pink glasses. I don't think same as you, which is fine, everybody is different..guys..girls. Don't worry about the big bad USA, if your expecting it to blow up, you got a looong wait. Economies go up and down, this is normal. So go back to your wifie , have a great time with her and us guys will do OUR thing.
Most people seem to have missed the third line in the post I copied from another forum.
It said "There are “good girls” and “bad girls” in the Ukraine. Many men fall into the trap of choosing the wrong ones. This is about them."
One more time (with emphasis) "There are “good girls” and “bad girls” in the Ukraine. Many men fall into the trap of choosing the wrong ones. This is about THEM!!!!"
The "THEM" here refers to the "bad girls", of shich Ukraine certainly has some. This is NOT a generalization (nor do I think the writer intended it to be a generalization) of ALL Ukrainian girls (women)!!!
But there is certainly a SUBCULTURE that follows these rules. And a lot of guys fall for these girls and want to bring them back home.
"the last place people would wanna go live is america . why go to the worst place in the world to live to be surounded by people who belive they are better than everyone else . it gunna be great to see usa go into recession "
?????
Americans are certainly NOT better than everybody! We're only better than YOU are.
And regarding America slipping into recession - if we go into a serious one (and all indications are showing its likely) like it or not - the whole world will be dragged into it as well. INCLUDING YOUR economy. Like it or not we are all lnked. Don't you know anything about economics?
martin you have no idea off the truth here in russia .
Perhaps you're right danny but this thread is about Ukraine, it is nothing to do with 'here in Russia', so, perhaps, it might be said that you are trespassing.
Perhaps I should say that you have no idea of the truth in Ukraine!
Beside being anal in his hatred for America, there are some things I agree with Danny on. I for one and sick and tired of hearing how Americans screw up everything. So lets not do anything. I'm inclined to believe what Pat Buchanan wrote in two of his books, "Where the right went wrong" and "The death of the west" Which Aussies and Europeans should read the latter.
I would pull out all military installations across the globe and bring them home, use them only in defense of the US.
Close all our borders to immigration and remove all illegals that currently reside in the US. No visa's to Islamic Nations and strict visa applications.
Stop donating to the IMF. Stop all foreign aide. Kick the UN out of the US and quit funding that cesspool of socialism. Do not acknowledge the UCC.
Immediately inform Opec we are no longer a customer and watch economies start to collapse. Do our own exploration and refinement of Crude oil.
Shut down all manufacturing abroad and bring the manufacturing back to US.
Immediately stop importing Chinese goods. Stop all foreign investment and invest in our destroyed manufacturing base. All goods imported would have high tariffs. Keep them at home and sell them to yourselves, that's what we will do.
When conflicts start abroad, and they assuredly will, we will not get involved financially or militarily. When a nuke is detonated in a foreign land we will let them fend for themselves. It will happen. No longer sharing of intelligence with foreign nations. If the US is attacked no going to anyone to negotiate, first strike and strike hard.
No peace keeping missions in backwards places like Dafur, Liberals want that. Why should we defend with our soldiers lives what idiots do in their countries, no more. Screw freedom for anyone else but US, remember it's so highly overrated.
Pay off all international debt. And collect from those who have never repaid us for past wars and military support. If not write off our debts to them.
Becoming Isolationist is nothing new to the US, I wish we would have stayed that way prior to 1916. I wonder what would have happened in 1918 and 1941?No more being drug into foreign wars. Remember this is a global community you all like to pay lip service to. I think we'll just pass on it.
Stop Microsoft from exporting their products and keep the technology at home. Shut down all microsoft applications world wide. Keep all technology at home. Remember the Evil Bill Gates all Europe hates has himself created more productivity than any single man since Henry Ford. So we'll keep it here.
Solidify the dollar on gold reserves. No credit to any foreign countries no matter what the circumstance. Let Europe and Asia start toting the bill.
No more US Physcians on humanitarian mission abroad, we have enough to take care of at home. No exchange of medical technology devised in the US.
This is just a short list. I wonder how much we would be hated if we did a majority of the things above? Hell the way I look at it, if you're going to be hated, give them a goddamn good reason to hate. It's a damned if we do damned if we don't, so lets don't and keep our infrastructure sound and keep our young men alive. Then watch all hell break loose. Though since Reagan we've had over 20 years of pussies occupying the White House. I hope some day a strong character will, it won't be this election cycle, but I pray soon.