There's a sea between us, love,
and I wish that it weren't true,
for every day when I awake,
I yearn to be with you.
There are many miles between us, love,
though you're always here in my heart,
and every night,
beneath the silver starlight,
I pray for the day we'll never part.
PeteB, sounds like you've got a winner. The honest ladies hate asking they are very proud of being self suffcient. Though I'm still one that doesn't see it all that great economically in Ukraine yet. Especially for some professions. Anything to do with medical and rehabilition professions are direly underpaid there. My wife was shocked what a speech therapist gets paid in the states. An eight hour day here was a months work in Mariupol, unless you have private clients you worked with. Which she did, worked her normal day then out on evenings and weekends with her private practice.
I have been to both Ukraine and Moldova and have met some really great girls. I have been in contact with a girl in Kiev who makes a extremely large salary by the standards in Kiev, but I still send her money. (Bruce, you and I have a bit of a different situation I guess since she has never asked for it.)
I don't know how much dating most guys from this board are doing, but it seems that many have forgotten that dinner and a movie can cost upwards of 80-100 USD? Going out with a "local girlfriend" costs easily 200-300 per month.
Bruce, obviously you can't be dumb with your money, but try to keep an open mind. My perspective is a bit different. I'm 30 now, and was born in the US, but my mother is foreign and I'm acutely aware of how living in a 2nd world or 3rd world country can be extremely difficult. My mother would often send money and care packages home to her family. If sending a hundred bucks to someone I care about makes her life a little easier, then why would I hesitate? By my numbers, I would be spending far more than that if the girl was local.
It's sad to know that there are scammers taking advantage of lonely guys. But it's also sad to presume that anyone needing help is trying to rip you off. The fact is that a girl living with a man in Ukraine has a MUCH easier life (easier..not easy). It is difficult for someone to get by as a single woman in Eastern Europe. Why would I want my girl to be penalized for choosing to care about a man from the US? I am happy to send money to make her life easier. I don't miss it, and I know she's better off.
Bruce, who knows, this girl might be trying to scam you. All I'm saying is, that there is a possibility that she's not.
Quote: "I have been in contact with a girl in Kiev who makes a extremely large salary by the standards in Kiev, but I still send her money.”
Dude, “extremely large” in Kiev is way beyond what many westerners make. “Extremely large” in Kiev is 20K USD / month and upwards. Is “Extremely large” your words or hers? Have you met this doll? Do you know for sure exactly how she makes that “Extremely large” salary?
I spent some time in Kiev last year. I don't know who you're hanging out with, but I only met one person making anywhere near that kind of money. He was in Telecom and his father owned the company. Oh, and he was American by birth. Perhaps you're hanging out with a better class of people. Most of the people I met in the financial sector weren't making that kind of cash unless they were doing something crooked. //end sarcasm
Bro, you know as well as I do that most working class people would consider 20K USD per month a pipe dream. While there are extremely rich people in Kiev, this is not the norm.
Next time I'll choose my words more carefully. How about "large, by working class standards?"
And to answer your other question. Yes we've spent time together. Yes I know exactly how much she makes, the company she works for, and that she owns her apartment. But I'm not about to broadcast private details in a public forum. The intention of my previous post was to let Bruce Lee know that not everyone needing help is a scam artist. But it seems that more than a few people in this forum are bitter cynics. Thanks for asking though, Dunromin.
It just occured to me that I forgot another piece of this story. She was/is not part of a bride service and I did/do not belong to one either. I was in Ukraine as a Tourist with a friend and met her in a club. The friend with whom I was travelling and I didn't see a need to join a service to meet girls. We do "walk-ups" in the States, so we assumed we could do the same there. It worked out just fine.
It's not about being a cynic, it's about perpetuating scamming. These women were doing fine without your money. They were surviving. My wife was single and supporting herself. Sending money to 3rd world countries doesn't solve shit. We've been doing that for 50 years and they are still impoverished.
Owning ones apartment is nothing new in Ukraine. Since most were given by the Soviets. Since she is doing so well by Kiev standards, why does she need the money? I mean that's way over what the normal Ukrainain makes, though the standard of living is higher in Kiev along with the costs.
Also your story isn't scanning to well here. You met her in a club? Where in Odessa or Kiev? Seems to me you didn't walk up and meet this girl. Though in another thread you're going as a tourist? Just doesn't scan. So before you take indignant shots at guys who use a service, get your story straight. A lot of us losers didn't use bride services or agencys. At least that's your insinuation. Things just don't occur in past life. They either happened or didn't. Occured is short for editing.
I have sent money before I was married not often and not large amounts but usually the money would help
with maybe credit that had to be paid back .I know you can be slated here for it but every situation is different and if you are in a relationship and one partner is worrying about paying a certain bill or credit then helping out shouldnt be a big deal and you can become the person she turns too and rely on.
I noted when in the Ukraine people get into debt very easy and credit seems readily available and huge interest this of course leads to a reduction is standard of living as you try to meet these payments.
$100 is nothing in the US - but it can make a world of difference in Ukraine where some people do with so little.
Regarding sending money to 3rd world countries "doesn't solve shit". That's our government. And it really only ends up lining the pockets of all the wrong people in the 3rd world countries. It also teaches 3rd world officals ho to properly blow smoke up our butts in order to get more.
On a one to one basis for someone special who might desperately need the money - there is nothing wrong with sending a few dollars, so long as you are SURE that that is not the only thing maintaining the relationship.
Quote: “Bro, you know as well as I do that most working class people would consider 20K USD per month a pipe dream.” Of course, I merely pointed out to you that “Extremely Large” salaries in Kiev include that realm.
Quote: “I was in Ukraine as a Tourist with a friend and met her in a club.” What sort of club if I may ask?
Nasfan - I am not making fun of anyone using a service. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I included that information because I was asked if I had ever met this girl. My answer is "yes". Then I explained how this came about. I met he at a club. Since I wasn’t using a service I had no other way to come in contact with a girl from Eastern Europe.
As far as using a service is concerned, I think this is a valuable tool. I don’t look down upon anyone who uses them. I just didn't happen to join or use one. My friend and I took our chances, and don't regret it. And yes I do love the word "bro". I find it superior to "dude", "hey you”, or "whatchu talkin 'bout willis". I also like the word “chump” and almost used it in this reply, but refrained.
I wasn't "taking a shot" at anyone. My "story" is straight and better yet, a fair amount of my trip is on video on youtube. Maybe it’s your ability to comprehend what you’re reading.
Are you unfamiliar with the term "walk up"? A walk up is exactly that, on the street, in a night club, anywhere one sees people. It's still possible to meet good people that way. Not everyone in a developing country is out to rob you.
As for sending money to 3rd world countries. If you read my post more carefully, you'll see that 1) I wasn't making disparaging comments about services and 2)the money wasn't sent to a "country". It's to a person in a country. And yes it does solve quite a bit.
So "Bro", if you want to be cheap by not having a local girlfriend, and also not sending any money to the girl you supposedly care about, then by all means, do it. I'm lucky to have been brought up in a family where both sides (mother and father) are generous with one another. I was taught that if I'm in a position to help, I might want to consider doing it. But if you want to keep those dollars lining your own pocket to help keep you warm at night, then by all means, do it.
Dunromin, the club was Shooters in Kiev.
Wow the bitterness truly runs deep. I am really surprised. It seems like a lot of guys have found some really great women. Why are many of them still so bitter? It's not that difficult to be happy gentlemen. It's all in your outlook. Actually forget I asked that question. I really don’t want to get into it. I tried to give Bruce Lee a different perspective, and I’ll leave it at that.
Has nothing to do with cheap or benevolent. It has to do with common sense. If you met her at Shooters, which is Kievs copycat of an American "Hooters" she's not hurting for money or she's hustling. It has little to do with bitterness. Guys like you will never learn. So you perpetuate scamming. Which scammers do read these forums looking for dolts who will part with their money. So "Bro" when you do that you give good women a bad rap and set up guys to get ripped off. It's the arrogance of the savior mentality.
Say you "walk up" some girl in a bar in the states, are you going to start sending her a couple of hundred each month. Doubtful. It doesn't help a bit, if she can hang at shooters with her large income, she's not in need of a handout. She's not in poverty row. This is where you cross the line into stupidity. There's also a huge difference between being in contact with someone and having a relationship. First of all 95% of women of any class in Ukraine won't accept the money unless they are on the take. They're too proud. They are self reliant and self sufficient. Like I said the story doesn't scan, not in the least. Then when you get burned, you'll be one of the first to call them vampires, thieves and everything else in the book. You can't get scammed if you don't send money. Second if you send money, it's not their fault it's yours.
It's easy to be happy, it's also easy to stupid. Like I said, no decent honest lady is going to accept the money. Again the question still stands, if she's making such large coin why does she need it. Kind of like hillbillys in American, buy groceries on food stamps, sit in the bar drinking on Friday night. Common sense tells you this is a bad deal all around. Don't worry Jonesy I don't sleep with my money, I sleep with my wife and our money goes to charitable projects. Charity begins at home, I think that is what your parents were trying to teach you.
JET yes its the way it is i agree with you - but does it have to be ? many in fsu use the ''poverty line as a cop out ''.
Westerners by and large come to fsu with a vision to help ! and get shafted in 95% of cases for there good deeds !
Russia and soviet countries are not you know basket cased ! but they tend to ''make there own monster '' then when all turns turtle on them ''cry foul and deciet !
yet in retrospect they are the offenders !!
Whats the answer - you dont ignore it -if you do it only gets worse ! you try and either expose it / or correct it /.
The hard facts remain in this country - take out western influence and western guys going there ( with trust ) and you have lost 100% of everything = fact that without us in west they have a big percentage of nothing ---------and on this point i WILL MOT BE SWAYED !
The country would - without us head back to 1950 faster than the world speed record !
Westernisation - its whats fucked them ! they dont have 30% of wage scale needed to keep up with it ! so why bother i ask !
Whats unique about russia / ukraine is the 'very way it was' - i loved the old russia Pre 1999 before all the idiotic westernisation crept in !
They had a tad of - family values back then ---now all they do is go to bed dreaming of the next story for $$$$ they can put to latest guy at local cafe after tomorrows work is finished .
Big deciet / disshonesty was born in russia and grew since the computor age - we gave them the tool of deciet !
I doubt very much Russia could make a screwdriver before 1982 - without the help of a western design lol lol.
With it came the glossy tv adds of Flash cars / western living etc etc polluted em ! as if it was not bad enough that they were already born in survival / scam mode ! we just gave them a longer rope to hang themselves with .
Sad but true !
Daddy was born 1945 cleaning up after the war and pushing a cabbage cart with wooden wheels he was happy doing that until AROUND 1989 /92 ERA !
And daughter wanted zero just a wee bit better life - most were straight !
then they got this crazy idea to westernise -huh what a mistake !
The greatest wrought( snakle oil industry ) to emerge from russia in last 10 years were agencies ( lets sell the neighbour type scenario ) great huh !
SELL NATIVE MOTHER FOR $12 TRULY THEY WOULD sell her up the river !
Be all in the book whence finished - iam working on design contracts exploration drills at present plus finishing off number 5 history book so iam burning the midnight oil to finish it all .
I just hope it helps a few to realise - that is the case of dealing russian women and family it really is a minefield ! and you can lose your shirt -not even knowing they are setting you up for a fall .
Dont get me wrong i still love the place ( blokes mad after such losses ) but one's experiences be they good or bad ! i hope can benifit others on the hunt .
Nasfan in my work on the books i would like to say i don't need your negitivity in these Next few months - plenty of others on hear mate - you can import your daily venom into ! so il catch up with you after ive been to the publisher ok !
Give me a break hear i don't need the dribble at the moment - its hard enough trying to find a few positive points to put into the book on them !
mike00
Nas, no need to be sorry for being bitter. A cheap guy isn't going to admit that he's cheap. In fact, he'll probably write 3 paragraphs trying to convince me of the opposite. Bro, I call them like I see them. <<cough cough...cheap>>