I see from one of the other posts that it is recommended to meet ladies in clubs rather than via AFA.
The problem with clubs in Ukraine and in many countries is that only young ladies are present. The average woman that we foreign guys want to meet would be between 25 and 37 years old. But they would never be at clubs. Most cannot afford to go to a club; many have children and cannot go anywhere other to shops. Their evenings are busy and there's no chance of them sitting around in clubs waiting on foreign guys. They register with local affiliates of AFA and that's how we guys get to meet them. The only meet with a foreign guy when it suits them- the agency calls them and pleads with them to go (cause it makes money for that affillate).
Very few go to the socials (AFA or other)- it's not in their culture to do so. They feel like cattle at market, at least many of them do.
So private dating via the local affiliates is best chance to meet nice 25 to 37 year old.
I have been to AFA socials recently (sept 2009), and at one only 32 ladies and 10 interpreters attended (total for 4 hour period). At the 2nd one, only 16 ladies and 10 interpreter girls attended. There is not the same amount of ladies as was the case say 10 years ago.
Don't believe the hard sell stuff from John Adams or the others in AFA. He tried to tell me that 200+ ladies attended socials early this year. It's rubbish. Talk to guys who were at those Ukraine socials. The socials photos are on the AFA website.
Ukraine at present is on the brink of total bankruptcy. Perhaps it might make ladies think of leaving Ukraine. Then again, it is quite a worrying situation- more people are desperate for money as they can't get any in the banks now. But many will be able to afford to even get to the socials unless they are very close at hand.
So there could be more scamming now and more hustle. Perhaps more violent crime.
So guys, be careful in 2009 in Ukraine. Don’t go on own at night. Get a good interpreter to act as your guide and of course to help with taxi price negotiations etc.
Most student interpreters will be happy to get $5 per hour now, very happy because of the exchange rate.
MCDISCOOL.
From what information i have heard about the socials is, AFA encourages most of the local women in the area to attend..
Also, don't you guys choose which women you would like to meet before you leave your country?..
Don't you receive a final list, or some type of list that has the profiles of the women who will be attending before you attend the social?
I have been told by a English speaking guide in Nikolaev, that prices go up every day and that was about a month ago..
What will probably happen is, more and more women will turn to the 'dating' agencies for financial 'gains' of income supplement, because this is an easy way of earning extra money..This why the women write to your profile and show so much interest in you and want to know more about you..But in reality, It's all about keeping the 'punters' online for longer..
I agree with much of what you say, mcdiscool. Always prudent, for example, to be wary of scams. And you're right. Most interpreters in Ukraine will be glad to work for $5/hr. I myself charge 50 gr per hour of guitar lessons here, which is what, maybe $6? But I haven't seen any rise in violnet crime here in Sevastopol, nor read about it. (Then again, this is hardly a typical Ukrainian city.) I certainly don't worry about going out alone at night.
You said that AFA 'encourages' ladies but then you say the ladies will turn up to the agencies for 'financial gains'.
I understand that AFA do not pay ladies to attend socials, so there is no financial gain in ladies attending, and for what possible other reason would a lady be turning up to an agency other than to improve her life a.k.a. financial gain?
Somewhere on my computer is a letter from an AFA guy who tells me that the agency rings most of the women in the area that the social will be held. Apparently, the agency encourages women to attend..What the agency also does is ( once again, this is stated in his letter), look at what type of men will be attending and make it's on decisions on what type of women should attend...He also mentioned that some of the most beautiful women in the world, are the one's who cannot speak English...???????..I cannot remember what i said about THAT statement....
Apparently, the women are called twice....
If i can find the email, i will place it on the forum.
The women that the men have been corresponding to, will and should attend..
And of course, the men can choose women to attend before they leave their country and when they arrive in FSU..
Why would it be in the interest for women to attend?
Well, for a few of them, they would look for a partner, some of them would look at it as a night out and others , i think, would see it as an opportunity to get themselves a new 'pen friend'...
Some of the women want to improve their lives, MOST want to improve their bank accounts...
From what i noticed of the women in Ukraine was, they are happy with their personal lives and go about it knowing that the wages system and government need attention..But from what i saw, these women are not THAT interested in foreign men...
Can anyone place a profile on a site called 'online dating ukraine', you will not need a photo, and put down on your profile that you smoke and drink beer VERY OFTEN ( two things, i know FSU women do not like) and you will see the eager and 'soul partner' searching princess's at work...This site, is a HUGE scam...And some of the women who write their pre-written and pre-stored letters, are clients of AFA and would no doubt, attend the socials....
Martin, in my next letter, i will place a sentence from an AFA woman listed woman, who attends the socials, what she has to say about the men who attend..I will copy her sentence, word for word....
OK, I accept, that the ladies can attend socials for a free lunch and a few glasses of bubbly but the only financial gain they would make from that would be the cost of the, probable, vegetables that they would have otherwise eaten at home.
The only way they can, fraudulently, gain financially is if the guys allow themselves to be scammed but that would be something that would occur after the initial social introduction.
If a guy doesn't part with cash then there is no cash for the lady to revenue!
Jamie1964, what do you hope to prove by one womans opinion on the men who attend the socials? Did it occur to you that she may have been ignored and has a bone to pick?
Like martin, i have an objective opinion of the socials that comes from experience.
Last summer I went to 9 afa socials. I was 'socials only' so i did not pay for the full tour. I traveled with a personal guide from kherson and saved alot of money that way.
do people meet at socials. i can say without question that it is possible.
are there quality people that attend a social. i would say a handful. on both sides. obviously something happened in someones life to make them attend a social. I me a very nice young lady who happened to be a widow. I also met a beautiful divorced lady in kiev who had an 18 yr son.
what is disappointing, however,is that the vast majority of attractive girls you see on the website do not attend. i'm not sure why. maybe they have many admirers and don't feel the need, maybe the have already found someone, whatever. The local agencies are under pressure to fill up a banquet hall with girls, otherwise AFA will not return. So maybe the girls they get as 'fillers' are of questionable quality and motives. (when the food is brought out their motives are clear though)
the most disappointing thing, however, is that you are supposed to be able to select 10 girls in each city to invite to the socials. So, of the 90 ids i gave to the assistants, I only actually met one girl. (for about 5 minutes)
for those guys who think that things might be more sincere in the smaller cities, I'm sorry to say that I have not experienced that.
certainly everybody has heard about nikolaev, but i can also say kherson is not operating on the up and up. for instance, the girls that you see on the afa site for kherson, their representative agency is actually in odessa, 3 hours away. When i was in kherson, and during the tour last summer, i couldn't even arrange a date with one of these girls. Not even with the help of the wife of the AFA president who was there at the time. hmmmm.
i have grown to expect that from anastasia. i was fairly disappointed that afa was now acting this way.
sorry i can't paint a more rosy picture. its just that times have changed. people are using the more direct contact sites now. going through agencies is not very effecient way to go about it anymore.
the best advice i can give is to go over their with a buddy for a month or two. join some local english speaking clubs, try to get involved in the community some how, just meet people the old fashioned way.
gecko,
"she may have been ignored and has a bone to pick"..
To this statement i would say, definately not like a FSU woman to think like that...
From what i have experienced with these FSU sites is, the women think like this.......
The men are like trains, you miss one and another one will turn up soon....
And i also think that the more we argue amongst ourselves, the more smiles that are on the scam agencies managers faces..
To me socials would be like 'speed dating'..You have 5-6 hours to mingle and after this time you can approach a woman and go on a date afterwards..Am i correct here???
To me, this time is not enough to get to know someone...
So how much money did it cost you for each social and how many women did you see..Like what I'm saying here is,did you plan to see women you were corresponding to or just went to see what the 'field of players' looked like and take a chance from there????
Is your last letter the 'I have an objective opinion of the socials that comes from experience'..
Is there more to that???....
Tell us how many socials you have been on, all up, that is...I see you went on 9 socials last SUMMER...Why 9 socials to obtain your experience and could you share a bit more with everyone...Thanks...
I'm also reading about " I have grown to expect that from Anastasia"...
The interesting statements put forward by the men about what agency is best or which ones they have had trouble with, has made me look at these agencies and notice that most of the women who are on the 'good' agencies are also listed with the 'bad' agencies with the same profile photos and description details...
'Good' agencies sell their women's profiles to the 'bad' agencies and then work together with translating letters and meetings, etc, etc..
SO, everyone is 'making a buck' out of the 'punters'....
My advise to anyone is LEARN THE LANGAUGE and then you will know what is said around you.....
Another thing gecko is, I'm NOT trying to 'have a go' at you....So don't think I'm trying to offend you....
Martin,
The socials are a great way for the women to pick up another letter writing 'buddy'...
After all, the 'punters' are paying for everything and there is more at the social then just vegetables on the tables.Let's not over emphasis or exaggerate things too much...The women enjoy a night out on the expensive of the men..This is the system..
And OF COURSE the men will want to show the women that their intentions are good and serious, so they ( the men) would like to prove to them that their intentions are serious)...And the women know this...They just sit back and see what and when the men will do...
I think Martin, that, if the men don't 'go out of their way' for the women, they ( the women ) would probably think the men are boring..
And as you say, if the guy doesn't part with the cash then there is no cash for the lady to revenue...How true....
But i know that NOT all women do this or think of it as a financial gain, but i can tell you this...There is more and more women who are turning away from the 'honest' agencies because of the dishonesty of the agency and how other women are only on line for money..AND THIS IS A FACT..But you won't get this info from any agency people....And you can attend as many 'socials only', but that would probably mean nothing as far as experience goes in the end...
So what is the answer????
Do you try to impress or just relax and just be yourself?????
Gecko,
You say that the wife of AFA was in Ukraine..
Was this the December 2008 tour and was John there?
Did you meet John Adams and did he attend all the socials??
What a ridiculous statement of yours this is jamie:
(To me socials would be like 'speed dating'..You have 5-6 hours to mingle and after this time you can approach a woman and go on a date afterwards..Am i correct here???
To me, this time is not enough to get to know someone... )
So how can 5 or 6 hours of 'real time' together not be long enough in comparison to a string of emails, are you suggesting that two people can realise if they enjoy each others company, if the body language is there etc. etc. etc. from (only) emails before they perhaps decide to go out for dinner together?
Have you never met a lady in a bar or club, or similar, and asked her out for a date having only met her a few hours, or less, previously?
And I said they would probably eat vegetables at home, not at the social, but you have a very selective reading habit jamie such as your false accusation that I told you to shut the phuck up.
And if any lady at a social gives the impression that she is about to become high maintenance then, as they say, there are plenty more pebbles on the beach.
Martin,
How can 5-6 hours tell you that you like a person, especially at a social when all the people who attend are there to talk to anybody about anything and everyone knows that you go there to see 'what is on offer' and have fun..??
If any man thinks they are going to have some 'real time' together with a single woman and think the body language is there, then you would have to be a fool, especially if you have not been corresponding to her before hand...
But i suppose there will be jerks who go to the socials and try to keep up appearances to try to impress the women. Guys who behave like this are insecure and posses more self esteem and confidence when they look at themselves in the mirror...
Bar and club women are local women, NOT FSU women, who, in my opinion have different mental and cultural behaviors..
I understood what you said about the vegetables martin, perhaps you should read gecko's blog more thoroughly and you will perhaps read what he says and save you some time..
Been to the socials martin???
If so, tell us about it.
I've never been to a social and never will and if you really believe that FSU women are so different to any other women then you really haven't got a clue jamie.
martin
You think you know everything.
You think you are above everyone else on the forum by the way that you put people down for what they say or their punctuation, but I've been having a good look at yours and i see a lot of things need attention..
I see plenty of faults in you, by the way you talk to other people..
And if you have never been to a social, then how the fu#k would you know what your talking about???
Like i said to you before, you suffer from hypocrisy...
Go back and have a look at your statement above, "Moderators, commercial advertising of AFA"..Now THAT would have to be one of the most stupid statements i have ever read on this forum...And look where it has come from???....But does anyone say anything??
Maybe your information on these sites and about FSU women comes from either your agency 'mate' or, you 'google' it..
If you think you above everyone else on the forum, then martin, please feel free to leave and find people of your own intellectual thinking..A men's club comes to mind that i think will be good for you..I have seen the 'would be's if they could be's' in these establishments..I think you would fit right in, if your not a member already, that is..
a weak person will resort to cheap insults when someone may not agree with them and if this forum were anything to go by then it is a trait of your nationality, although having previously lived and worked in your country for a summer I know it not to be normal.
And that 'google' cheap shot has been tried so many times before, even my worst enemy on this forum who, at the time, tried the 'google' cheap shot insinuating that I was naive had to take a step back when I provided proof of umpteen visa's and stamps on my passport.
I've never suggested that I am above everyone else but I will state that I do not voice my knowledge, of some 11 years, on one bad experience in Nikolaev.
'Cheap shot' me as much as you like jamie, I can take it and I'll still be laughing at the naivity, the chip on your shoulder, of your posts.
Now you are knocking my nationality..
You are truely pathetic martin..No half intelligent person says anything like this, but you..A person who is weak and vunareable to constructive criticism and if anybody says anything, you call it a 'cheap shot' ...How pathetic are you martin???
The stamps and visa's mean you still haven't learned how to speak to people...So don't try to impress me with this like you might do to other people.....
11 years and you have never been to a social BUT you give out your point of view as if you know everything..
Any one who says something on the thread you don't like or is not correct in their thread,( OR EVEN THEIR SPELLING), become a person who is in your sites..Well, now, your in my sites..People like you that is..Weak, hide behind a computer and suffer from hypocrisy..I've been dealing with this type of fool since i left school...
Don't think I'm your enemy, i enjoy reading your collective thoughts, especially when nooga, takes the 'piss' out of you..This guy has got you wrapped around his little finger..It makes good reading and i always enjoy ( while having a beer) your 11 years of experience...
martin, I've had my letter to you blocked and i don't know why..
I thought it was was written very well, correct spelling and punctuation..Something that you would like...
I thought my description of you was perfect...
A man of 11 years traveling, learning................?????
I'm noticing at how you trip over your experience and how you cannot handle constructive criticism..
I question your opinions...
I wonder what a expert is doing on here??
I see that nooga has you wrapped around his little finger...
I wonder if the administrators are going to allow this letter???????
I'm not social endorser but writing letters beforehand accomplishes very little also. In the same vein it's like going to meet multiple women on one trip, what can that really accomplish? The establishment of a relationship is going to require many visits. It doesn't matter whether you met at a social, on the street or via letter writing. Nothing is really accomplished until you spend considerable time together.
Secondly there is no such thing as a good agency. An agency is an agency, they are there for one thing only. Profit. Until guys get that through their heads agencys will control the game. I never used an agency would never use one. Absolute waste of time. I bet without a lot of hard work, on fiance.com you can find women that will follow your lead and dump the agencys. Until you separate the woman from the agency the sphere on influence with the hand in your pocket will always be there. Agencys aren't there to help you find a woman agencys are there to eradicate as much money from you as possible.
Ask the girl who finds a guy then goes back to the agency for help with visa or immigration questions and see what she has to say about the benevolent agency then? They will give here a cold shoulder and kick her to the curb. Why? Because she is no longer a value to the agency. Her printing press has expired from printing dollars. Many girls have complained of this after they put their faith in the agency. Only to become frustrated with the whole affair. Agencys can influence the woman, steer her away from a potential good guy. It has been done.
So you can sit here and condemn guys who go to socials and talk drivel about good agencys. Nothing is accomplished until you meet face to face and spend considerable time together. More guys are scammed in the letter writing process than anywhere else. Until your boots are on the ground in her turf it's nothing but fluff anyway.
"An agency is an agency, they are there for one thing only. Profit."
So very true. It surprises me how many guys complain about being ripped off by an agency. Its a bit like complaining about a car salesman. And like cars women need to be taken for a test drive!