BBpor, I'm currently using Fiance.com, Elena's Models and Kiev Connections.
Okay, whole story...
I'd made a few good contacts on Fiance.com, so decided to go out. One was in Nik, one in Sumy. The Sumy one started to look increasingly dodgy, so I pulled out. Tickets were already booked etc, so I thought I'd just stay in Kiev and give KC a try. I emailed them a copy & paste of my 'Elenas' profile, with a request to meet a few girls off their database. I wasn't foolish enough to think I'd come away with an engagement ring, I hadn't even talked to any of these girls. Still, I thought it would at least be good practice talking to an FSU lady, and if something unexpected happened, great!
Anyway, three dates. I was certain the first was a good-time-girl. The agency commented that she was very popular, and tried to fix me up with others "who are serious about getting married" (possibly suggesting she's not? This would of course go against claims on their website, but I digress...). Sure enough, the restaurant we went to was expensive, by far the most expensive in my time here. While there, she asked me for my number, so we agreed to meet the next day.
Then straight back to KC's office for date 2. She was really only a 'backup' - pretty, but...I didn't see anything happening. I got the impression she was a 'professional dater' too, so I didn't feel guilty. My suspicions were well confirmed. She brought two friends on the date. They already knew what restaurant they wanted to go to (half the price of the first, so this was good). I knew from the outset they wanted me to pay for everyone (so no confusion about her intentions) without them saying. You could just tell. Still, they were models by proffession, and it's not every day you get a meal with three models - I thought 'beats a lonely MacDonalds'. It wasn't too expensive and a good experience. I wasn't expecting anything more, so I'm not bothered. From these two dates I learned a LOT about FSU women in their 20's (they were both 27, I'm 34.
Then something interesting happened. My bank, which tends to pannic over card faud, stopped my ATM card as I was using it abroad. They also decided to take $1400 out of my account (they've admitted fault and are putting it back, but talk about your bad timing). Anyway, that was my backup money, so I had to reign in the spending - the cash I had was all I was going to have for a while. So, I texted 'miss expensive restaurant' (date 1) and told her the situation. Her response? "I don't mind about money, I just want to see you." Well, that was a turn up! Anyway, we met again, but it was late at night. She'd had to postpone because of taking her sister to the hospital (which I did think was suspicious at first), but she came out to meet me when she was finished. It was about 9:30pm when she got to me, and almost 1am when I sent her home in a taxi. She had to be in work for 7 the next day, and spent the whole date yawning (but trying not to let me see - so cute). I kept telling her she could go if she was tired, but she insisted on staying. Talkabout your surprise turnarounds
I stayed in Kiev with Ukrainefare, and I'd highly recommend them to anyone, btw.
Then off to Nikolaev (flight through Odessa, airport pickup by the Nik apartment). In Nik, I stayed with welcome-to-russia. Apartment wasn't the best, but the service was spot-on! They assigned me a contact, who texted me about the taxi, met us on the way to the apartment, showed me around the apartment, drew me a map of the town, left me her number for questions, texted me 24 hours before leaving to confirm return transfer.... I couldn't have asked for more, really.
Then onto the final meeting. A girl who'd written to me on fiance.com. She'd initiated contact, but I didn't have any real romantic interest in her. She was too young for one thing (20), also, the conversation was often vague and a little vacuous. I had suspicions. Turns out they were correct :)
(For those who read this bit in another thread, skip this paragraph). After a load of running around and what I thought was missing each other accidentally, she surprised me by turning up at an internet cafe she knew I was using. We went off for a drink, and she told me that she was employed by the agency, and wasn't supposed to be meeting me 'off the clock' like this, as I wasn't being charged for anything - no interpreter, no 'taxi fare'. She was in contact with lots of men professionally, but didn't want to keep doing so with me. She spent the whole time looking over her shoulder for people from the agency.
She also told me that there are 200 agencies in Nikolaev, and that pretty much all the girls her age are employees, like her. The same profiles on fiance.com are also on other sites such as natasha club and anastasia. Of course, the interesting bit was that she wasn't even the girl I'd been writing to. Different name, different photo's, different bio. I asked lots of questions, and this was clearly the person I'd been writing to, but the profile was someone elses. Apparently someone who'd left the agency, but they were still using her profile. From the sounds of it, this is also common.
She did tell me that, in her opinion, the ladies who are in their 30's or with kids are most likely genuine, which brings me back to my original Sumy contact (33 with a son). I've found from all of this that there's no experience like experience. Face to face meetings are pure gold, so I guess my next trip will be to Sumy.
Baron: I disagree partially ...
... my fiance is in her 20s and I am in my 40s, but I know how serious she is about us.
I said partially because I agree that it is more difficult to find a very serious girl in her 20s than her 30s, but they can still be found if you are careful, patient, and realistic about what you want and what you can offer in such a relationship for it to be balanced (despite the age difference).
I have a very good friend who wanted to marry me since she was 18. She is a real treasure, but I declined in order to protect her. She has a very sensitive character and mine is very difficult. So, together we would be a real train wreck. She and her family love me very much, despite my wanting to be only friends (she is also very beautiful). I am not trying to gloat. I just want to make the point that there are hidden gems at every age. We men just have to be realistic and make sure that we can build a balanced relationship with the person we choose (we need to think with the head over our shoulders). This girl and I have been friends for five years now.
I can also talk about the flip side. A girl that I chose, but she did not want to marry me because I am too old for her taste. That did not qualify her as a negative experience. Everybody has the right to choose what s/he wants in his/her life. In fact, she is the best FSU friend I have. She recently married a young Russian man. She and her family are like another family to me (with her being my younger sister now) ;-)
Finding the right girl requires dedication and a good attitude, even if expectations seem unrealistic at first. My fiance is not perfect, but she is perfect for me. That is what really matters :-) If men go about this search with a positive attitude, most FSU women will be very happy to give it a try. And if they say NO, there is no need to disqualify them, especially in a public forum. They are also people, and have wants, needs, and desires like all of us.
good post this is what we need here. John sorry I didnt warn you about the bank thing I let my bank know every time I travel over seas so they dont shut it down.
if your bank will work with you, you should be able to call them and they will authorize your card there. I have always used my debit card in Russia and Ukraine with no problem but I guess recently there has been a lot of fraud over seas and when my wife went over this time the card was deactivated there. It was not a problem to get it activated and my banker was able to activate it for atms only where the physical card had to be present. I did have to wire some money to her as it was Saturday when we realized it and could not get it activated until Monday. Another option would have been to go to an Internet cafe and wire yourself money with moneygram or western union
We have had no problems - just finding ATM's with Grv in them is a problem.
Tried 6 around Independents Sq yesterday b4 we found one that had money in it !!!!
There is a lot of counterfeit local currency about apparently
YAY! Back in England! Good grief have I missed English TV!
Okay, first off - thanks Maxirat and Bowhunter. Before going I got so much good information off this forum, so anything I can give back is the least I can do for all the help you guys have given me. I had no idea about the fake Grv's though - glad I never got caught out with that one.
I'll tell you guys something I didn't tell the girls. I new I could get the ATM card working again with one phonecall (this happened to me last year, I was in Australia), but 'the bank wont give me my money' was a convenient way to reign in the spending. Of the two girls in Kiev, one dissappeared as soon as I cried temporary poverty, the other stuck around :) Which leads me on to the last night!
After my last post, I flew back to Kiev and met up with girl 1 again. Well, this was the highlight of the trip. A drink in a cafe, on to a pub, then off to some nightclub called paprika or some such thing (russian words and my grey cells aren't playing nice at the moment). Tiny by Liverpool standards, but cute and fun!
Anyway, I wont go in to too many details about it, but I got back to the apartment with 3 hours to sleep before the plane out the next day. TOP night!! We exchanged contact details and I guess we'll see where it goes. I'm still 50/50 on whether her main focus is getting a visa, but if it comes to the worst and this IS all she's after, I've got a good handle on the scamming game now.
Olga, you may well be right (although I'm keeping an open mind about date 1). This was a 'toe in the water' experience. I didn't want to throw money at something that wouldn't work out, or not be worth the effort. I'm ready to step the game up now. Oh, and I will respond to your PM re: the Nik situation. I haven't forgotten you :)
Sorry mate, she didn't tell me the name of the agency (I actually didn't ask). All I can tell you is that it's just off Soviestkia Street. Sorry I can't be of more help
No problem. How did you find navigating around Nikolaev?? I may be going over next spring, and wondered how easy it was?? I am studying Russian part time, and am not sure how well I will manage with it.
Actually mate, I stayed in the city centre. Well, I say city, it's more of a smallish town. My apartment was about two streets away from the centre, which is a small simple affair. It's basically two streets that intersect each other. One (I forget the name) leads in and out of the city, which is intersected by the other (Sovietskia St.). Sovietskia is the main street with most of the shops and restaurants. Pretty much the whole city is around this intersection, on Soviestkia, or one of the little side streets that comes off it. I can't read a word of Cyrillic (yet) and I know the very basic words (yes, no, thank you, menu, bill), so you'll do much better than me.
As soon as you arrive, find your way to the only 15 story building in the area, which is opposite the only McDonalds. This is the epicentre of the town. Use this as your reference point and you really can't get lost. I found the locals to be generally okay, but there is a little more 'western resentment' than say Kiev (although its cheaper too)
I found my apartment supplier to be invaluable. If you want, PM me and I'll give you the details. They arranged the pickup at Odessa, assigned an English speaking contact who met me and showed me the apartment. She was also my interpreter but gave me no hassle when I said I didn't need her services. She drew me a map of the town, including the locations of all the restaurants (including the ones which other westerners frequent), internet cafe's and everything. She answered all my questions and gave me her number for any further queries. I felt a lot braver exploring knowing I had a backup if I got lost. Not bad for $35 per night.
Happy to help with any other questions mate. It's not often I get to be the man with the info :)