Another common trait of ukraine/russian women is that when caught out in a lie no matter how damning, they instinctively engage in damage limitation rather than taking an "ok the games up, heres what's really going on ...". They will not be embarrassed or ashamed except as a pretence to placate, and will never concede more wrong doing than you have hard incontrovertible evidence for no matter how compelling the circumstantial evidence.
For them lies and deception are just everyday life and they probably cant even understand why you would think badly of them for doing it, especially since they will be assuming that you are constantly doing the same to them - they see plots and schemes in everything you say or do.
this is what she wrote and they details,, if anyone wants pm me I have a program will log on and copy all passwords and emails sent and remain hidden,
Hello!
I’m 26 years old, born in Lvov, live in Uzhgorod. It is a small city in the west of Ukraine. I’m divorced , I lived with my mum but now I am in Ireland with ex-husband. Now the economical situation in Ukraine is very bad, thats why I decided to came back to Ireland.
I have finished the school with the Hungarian language of studying. Then learned in musical college. Now I have two different university education (music and manager of international tourism).
I like to travel very much, learn all new. On trips I like to make a large quantity of photos.
I am quiet, sensitive, careful … very few people know all my qualities. I open to people not easily, only when I feel that I can trust the person completely. Someone will tell that I am a bit closed. But who knows me better –I can be a pleasant surprise.
I love pets and not only. I love warm weather, sunshine. I like strong coffee, pizza and black chocolate. And in general I try to enjoy every moment - our life is too short …
Generally I not so like to characterise myself - please, ask questions you interests.
May I ask some your pictures?
Have a nice day!
Lionella
From: pr
To: l
Subject: Whats up L
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 23:10:42 +0200
Helo again ...,
Any luck with finding a job in Ireland Ms. Tourist manager?
It seems like there are many people looking for a job these days but I hope you find what you are looking for over there.
So, ...., you havent written much in you profile. Can you tell me a little about your self?
Short about me; I am a quite normal, calm and balanced guy who enjoys sports and like to stay active when I am not at work.
Have my economics sorted out with regards to job, appartement etc. but I am in search for a cute girl with sparks in her eyes...
Any sparks in your eyes?
Sometimes, we are crippled by our thoughts of unfinished business. I speak from experience. Colin had to go through this. Colin, is she finished? By your last post, I don't think she is.
I don't believe your relationship has a chance if you give her a chance this time. Zero. She may be "good" for a while now that she got caught, but you can never trust her. Yet, I still think there is a chance. A very small chance. Let her go. I don't exactly know how long, but my first thoughts are six months or a year. I am not saying start a relationship then, but see how she is six months or a year from now if you still have feelings for her.
You have done your duty, Colin. Love cannot be love if you expect something in return. That is barter. I have said I agree with tridant, but checking her e-mail was a good move.
when she goes she will not be back , I intend to remove her visa and I have her work card,
and then I will go immigration and tell them the truth. She can rot in Ukraine 4ever as far as I care
Colin, your task is to go on with your life. You should also wish that she goes on with hers and be successful. I don't know what the rules are, but if they let her, have her keep her visa and work card. It maybe hard for you to do, but think about this.
Colin
You are lucky, You know her now and no real damage is done. You can now move on.
While you hold even the smallest candle for her you will sabotage any chance a proper relationship with someone else.
Forget about her visa and work permit. What she does from here on in is not important.
Good luck.
DMC
You are so right about many Ukrainian women. They never come clean, always trying to weasel around the truth, which unfortunately then makes it impossible to trust them.
I'm glad you weren't swayed by the sitting in your lap and weeping. I expect that she is truly sorry - sorry that she got caught, and is losing her comfortable berth. Usually, the best thing to do with anger is to deal with it and move on. But in a case like this, I hope you will remember how hurt and angry (I presume) you are feeling right now. Because I predict that sometimes, the dangerous voice inside you will whisper "give her another chance," and it will help to have some armor for such moments.
@devilmaycare and others, in any culture you can find people who are so scared of "being wrong," that they resist admitting wrongdoing (or even honest mistakes) like a scalded cat. From my tiny sample of personal experience, this seems more prevalent in Ukrainians I know - perhaps an artifact of their history (not many years ago, people were condemned to death for making mistakes). To me, this is a weakness of character, and big challenge to relationship.
I’ve been reading the last few parts of this thread with interest.
I think this relationship has seen our good friend Colin twisting and turning this way and that trying to find even the smallest justification for hanging in there in the hope that one day she will want him.
Colin if you’ll permit me to have my tuppence worth and tell you IMO it’s time to man up….get away from her.
Stop worrying about what she has done and start trying to move on.. ..life is too short and you do not want to spend any more time worrying about what a selfish woman chose to do to a man that treated her like a Queen.. Show her the door.
Either someone wants to be with you or they don't; if they don't they walk, if they do, they move heaven and earth to be with you and the only time there is any middle ground is when they don't want you but they don't want you to disappear either and that is where you are right now.
You are just one big ol' safety net into which she can dump all her issues, free of charge; it's a service that costs her nothing and requires her to give nothing of herself, all very convenient.
This isn't how someone who loves you would treat you nor is it even the way a friend would behave; it is however, the way in which someone who is using you would behave and for as long as you are willing to stand out there, naked and in the pouring rain but getting nothing back in return she will continue to string you along.....because she can and because you are letting it happen to yourself.
Time to make your mark in the sand, a line beyond which you absolutely will not cross, for anyone, for any reason; define your standards about how you want to live and how you expect to be treated and do not under any circumstances lower that bar because the minute you do you are just announcing to the world that it is open season on you and you are there, ready to be taken advantage of by anyone with a mind to do so.
One thing I’ve learned about most women is that one way or another, if you let them or if they are given a free rein…they will go too far. You have given this woman a free rein and she’s overstepped the mark.
If you divorce them or they divorce you they will grab at every brown penny you have.
Guys on here complain about western women and reason this as why they are here looking for fsu women.
Western women for a long time have gone too far…got lazy, immoral, wasted themselves buying into the ethic that tells them they don’t need a man.
I have a theory about Ukrainian women that’s more or less what devilmaycare says ….they keep one eye on the main chance all the time they are with you. That’s they way they overstep the mark.
I’m still astonished at the cock and bull stories that one in particular dealt me. I remember looking at her one time …puzzling over her audacity while she “explained” her absence. I waited until she had finished, gazed into her sparkling eyes and said “My dear I’m quite sure even while wearing a top hat on your pretty head you could still crawl under the belly of a snake”
She couldn’t quite understand…so I pointed to each in turn….foot (mine) arse (hers) Door…
Some women won’t lie…I’ve know some women who won’t or can’t lie. I’ve know a fair few fsu women…but I’ve never know one who did not lie.
I'd been ignoring this thread, allowing you to get on with your private life, but today I noticed an uncanny number of members posting here so thought "what the hell's going on?".
I'll refrain from my "flogging a dead horse" slaying of you, I respect that you needed to exhaust it to eliminate the "what if?" factor and, from what I'm reading of your posts, I'd agree you, and/or your scissors :) , are taking reasonable action.
Have you emailed her mother yet just to remind her that she is full of sh1t? :)
I dont understand them at all she goes on Monday but all is fine with us she made the usual stories about the reason for the email . I translated a letter 2 her mother and basically she said he plans a future for us and he dosnt know my plans.
And yet we went out last nite to a nice bar she cuddles into me puts my arm around her and head on my chest ,sleeps beside me semi naked?
who can understand all this
If it's of any help, here's my take on it. Feel free to use or discard as you see fit.
From what I can see, you're dancing to her tune, and are simply reacting to her. Stop. Stop now. Any relationship follows the tone set at the beginning, as both sides learn the 'rules of the game' in the early days. Unfortunately, the rules you two seem to have set is...
1: You chase after her
2: She does what she wants, with little evidence of consideration for you
3: You puzzle over the implications of her actions, hoping for the best
Once this is the pattern you're both used to, it won't end. She drives the relationship, and you run after her. This isn't healthy, and left unchecked, it will carry on this way.
Frankly my friend, you're worth more than this, and you deserve better from her. I'm not going to say dump her, as that's your call, and you're obviously enamoured, so it would be a little cold of me to expect such objective detachment from you. What I will say is that you need to take a long, hard look at this from a distance. Pretend this is someone else in your position, and take an outsiders point of view - this way you can remove emotion from the facts and judge this on its merits. How would you judge this relationship if it was someone else's?
Second, I'd suggest taking charge and putting in some rules - with an ultimatum. From what we can see from your posts, you're obviously willing to bend over backwards for her, forgive much, give her the benefit of the doubt and do all the things to show that you truly do love her. Either she's willing to do just as much, or the love simply isn't there - I realise that's a hard thing to deal with, but it's better to know. So, set rules - set 'deal breakers' (i.e., those things you simply will not accept, or absolutely demand). I'd suggest you don't make them too easy for her. Be demanding - just like L'Oreal, "You're worth it." You shouldn't accept a second rate relationship, and you shouldn't have to - so don't, and ensure that she understands this.
As a 'for instance', my ex and I had a simple understanding. We both had each other's passwords. PC profile, email address, text message inbox on our mobiles. The understanding was simple: we could check each other's correspondance at any time. I never checked hers, but she always checked mine, as she'd been cheated on before. I went into the relationship knowing I'd have to make up for things done by other people (we all carry baggage), and I had nothing to hide, so I didn't mind. On the other hand, an Australian friend of mine is a keen surfer, and always has surfing mags around his house - which tend to have bikini-clad women throughout. His gf has also had problems with previous men being into porn, so freaks out at his magazines. He just doesn't get her reasoning, and she's not ready to trust someone yet. I keep telling them to just talk it through, and decide a compromise on what's acceptable and what's not. My advice is the same to you. Ground rules will not only let her know that you're not willing to be walked on, it will also give you a fixed measure to know if she's keeping her end of the deal.
She'll probably freak out at the very mention of accountability (esp with that FSU temperament), but if she's truly into you, she'll calm down and come around. If not, she'll disappear, which will at least answer your dilemma.
All women have the same body parts, and all know how to use the 'naked' thing to win us over. It often means far less to them than it does to us. You can find another woman who looks good and will sleep next to you, so don't be distracted.
In the end, a good relationship isn't one where she can live with you - it's where she can't live without you. Put this to the test and you'll have your answer.
Hope some of this helps. You seem like a genuinely nice guy, and I sincerely wish you get a woman who deserves you - wether this one or not.
Well I'm going to say that the email incident is totally damning - shes clearly being very calculating about using colin to get a visa, rather than genuinely "confused" about her feelings for him. Its almost certain that this was her agenda all along.
She'll probably freak out at the very mention of accountability (esp with that FSU temperament), but if she's truly into you, she'll calm down and come around. If not, she'll disappear, which will at least answer your dilemma.
yes u are right, she said no one tells me what to do,
I said well if u are making a effort at a relationship u dont do this
she said ok. I Said I dont care if u talk to guys from home or school but men from sites?
I dont think so, I booked flight though and seems she will go ,she said I will not trust her again
I dont understand how they can be so loving and yet its not real.I took her for a drink last night mostly I really needed one we talked and she acted as if nothing happened put her head on me hugs me etc hold my hand. I said to her how can u do these things without feelings she said dont ask me to explain myself I dont have to do that. I said to her today
i believe men are disposable to Ukranian women its no problem to let them go and then not be affected by it. Then of course tmen are the same they can dispose of women too.
Amazingly she agreed and said yes it is how we are. I said this statistic b4 from a lawyer told me there
70 percent divorce in the first 6 months in Ukraine.
So what would I advice put a key logger on your computer monitor whats going on be careful and know if she is being sincere or not they have no problem of thinking in the long term marry u for few years get citizenship/money and goodbye.