Okay, so I'm back from Sumy, and I have a few good choices to consider. One in particular, but this isn't the topic of this post.
Some may remember my posting about my first trip, which was to Kiev. My very first meeting with a FSU girl was with a contact I'd made last-minute with a girl from . We had three dates, she was an absolute stunner, and I felt I was batting way out of my league, but she seemed happy and I got lots of good signals.
Anyway, the correspondence dried up after I got home. The odd text and phonecall, but not much. Then she emails out of nowhere a few weeks ago, and texts me to make sure I received it(!) She's very sorry about the lack of contact, much family problems, moved out of Kiev (I suspect to her mothers).
I was planning on adding her to my travel itenerary, but she stopped responding to emails again, so I just kept on with my Sumy contact.
Then, the day after I get home, she texts. Sorry once again about the correspondence drop off, and that she's been busy dealing with her mother dying. Well, I'm guessing that'll be as good an excuse as any. It also fits with other patterns I've seen, so I have no reason to doubt her.
So, now she's back in the game. There's been a few texts and phonecalls, and things are going well. She said she's been thinking about working on a visitors visa to the UK to visit in the new year. I asked her is there anything I can do to help her cope with the loss of her mother (she's now effectively in charge of the family, looking after her sister and grandmother) - lots of scope to ask for money, but she replies 'just look after me when I come to England'.
Now, I do want her to come to the UK, but I'm thinking of talking her into doing it later in the year, when it's not the peak of winter. I would suggest Kiev instead, but I don't think their winter is a step up from ours.
SO, I'm thinking of suggesting a third location, with visits to the UK and Kiev later on. I'm looking for somewhere with the following criteria
1: Warm in January
2: Easily accessible for a Ukrainian (visa's etc.)
3: Not prohibitively expensive (by which I mean, cheaper the better)
Haven't been there myself, but standard destinations are Turkey and Egypt. My understanding is that FSU folks don't need any visa to visit. Because they are such popular destinations, you can (if you want) stay at hotels or participate in tours that are nearly 100% Russian-speaking. And vacations are affordable, a must for the vast majority from FSU.
turkey will not be warm enough. better thailand. its 9 hr direct flight from kiev.
but if your serious about this girl then your making a big mistake.
go to her country. its the man thing to do.
also, people with self respect don't let you know all about their difficulties. she's flaky about communication and willing to go on a trip with you for basically a second date. your going to spend a lot of money on her. then she will leave you.
whats my point.
listen, when a girl likes a guy, i mean really likes a guy, she would be more than happy that you chose to fly to her country to visit her. if someone did that for me, not only would i be happy, i would treat them like a queen while they were my guest.
if the only way she will be with you is if their is an expensive vacation involved, thats not love. thats nothing. save it for the honeymoon.
I've been to Kiev already - it's where we met. She doesn't know anything about this whole 'third place' thing, this is just my preference which I'm researching. I just came back from a cold Sumy, and I'd rather not do more 'dating in the cold' if there's a decent alternative. She hasn't asked for or suggested this.
Also, the correspondence has been sporadic, but no more than I would expect given the situation. When I want to find out what's going on in her life, I have to dig - she's usually pretty proud and tight lipped.
I see what you're saying about the possibility of a gold digger - given that I was surprised she agreed to date me, I've been semi-convinced of something being too good to be true, so I've been testing it all along. In Kiev, my ATM card failed leaving me with half the money I should have had. I told her I couldn't take her anywhere nice via text when I found out, and she replied that she didn't care and just wanted to see me. Also, I gave her a carte blanch for any gifts etc when I found out about her mum - nothing! She did not ask for a thing.
I'm still not 100% convinced (I'm a natural sceptic), which is why I was asking for a 'cheap as poss' alternative. I'll be taking a holiday then anyway, so I don't mind dropping a few hundies to bring her along to find out for sure. I think one week with her is enough to glean the truth, one way or the other, especially as she speaks fluent English, so communication is just so easy.
I have some absolutely golden backups just in case, but this one's worth taking an (informed) chance.
Aerosvit can get you into Istanbul for about 310 US round trip per person, but if you want to get to one of the popular seaside resort areas, you might be looking at long (maybe 12+ hour) but inexpensive bus trip (perhaps 30-40 US each way per person).
But it looks like Istanbul (plus ground transportation) is the way to go ... some very quick searching for flights to other Turkey airports suggests that other flights (a) stop at Istanbul, (b) cost about twice as much, and (c) have huge layovers in at least one direction.
Guys, going to turkey in February??? WHY? This is a description of winter in turkey....
"Winter (November, December, January, February, March) is chill and rainy everywhere except the southeast, but with lower prices and fewer tourists."
Now does that sound like a dreamy holiday??? Alternatives???
I got one Egypt... It is possible to rain but not much they have mild winters. These are averages for Sharm which is warmer than Mediteranean side.
~February- 25/18(77/64) , ~March- 26/20(79/68)
Thailand is 980$ return with Aerosvit. We cam up via BKK this time. Its not cheap and they never change the price on that destination. There is 3 flights per week from Borispol - Bangkok. She would need to take 2 passport size photo's and get an entry Visa on arrival at BKK
There are a lot of charter flights to resorts in Egypt and Turkey. My inlaws just flew to Hurgada for 10 days in 4 star for $900 total, flights, all inclusive accommodation for the two of them.
You can really only do it thrugh the local tour agents though www.turtess.com is one of the bigger tour companies supplying these tours.
Aside from all of the discussion on travel etc. ...
Why would you not want to experience time with someone in their actual surroundings despite the weather? Why be a fair weather friend? To visit someone in less than desirable weather or season of the year I think makes a statement about the person. I think bonus points for travelling when it is shitty weather. "Sorry Honey, it is too cold for me to visit you. I hope you are warm enough though. I'll see you when it gets warm enough for ME to visit you."
Experience with her what she is experiencing without you. Then she will more likely appreciate that you have not given too much thought to your own comfort as you have to spending time with her regardless of the weather. Plus it makes for a good reason to get a little closer...
After all, this is about finding someone to spend your years with. Will she think less of me if I bale when the going gets tough? Something to ponder.
Julian, I'm not sure what reasons you have for assuming negative motives on my part, but I don't appreciate your summing up of my attitudes (apparently in the entirety of my search) in a way that suggests you didn't really read my first post.
To quote:
"I asked her is there anything I can do to help her cope with the loss of her mother (she's now effectively in charge of the family, looking after her sister and grandmother) - lots of scope to ask for money, but she replies 'just look after me when I come to England'."
This is specifically about taking her somewhere (England was her idea - as stated). If I was a 'fair weather friend', why would I have just gone to Sumy in November? I realise that it wasn't for her, but it should demonstrate that weather doesn't dictate my actions. Once again, this is partly about giving her something to look forward to, and HER point of view was on travelling outside of Ukraine.
Once more to the quote "I asked her is there anything I can do to help her cope with the loss of her mother" this included my going to be with her now (not exactly the definition of 'bale when the going gets tough'), but she wanted to specifically get a visa sorted out for travel.
"Aside from all of the discussion on travel etc. ...
Why would you not want to experience time with someone in their actual surroundings despite the weather?
Yes, Julian, can you tell us why you didn't? I know you are travelling there now, good for you.
Mussy, after reading your original post it just seems to me that this girl only contacts you when it is good for her. Maybe it is when she runs out of men or has nothing going on. Through experience you find out all the BS that gets thrown around. I have heard many an excuse for everything from friends, to work, to being sick, to parents sick, to grandma's sick/dying ect.
you get to the point you don't know what to believe anymore, so cautious is best.
I have met a girl like this one of yours, talk is cheap and money is always needed.
In your travel criteria the only one that is not feasible is 'inexpensive', couple grand is minimum
for a week. GD is right, girl I went with booked through a tour company, direct flights( can't find on internet) and pricing reasonable. To be honest, I wouldn't trust a girl I don't know very well, especially one that is in and out of your life.
You said a 'few hundies'.....maybe you should looking into a nice apt with heater than is fully functional so you can be warm and save all that money.
Muzzy, I was not talking to anything or anyone in particular. It was just a comment that spending time with someone where they live and experience life should be looked upon as an honorable gesture. I think now I may have intended this for another thread. But actually it fits here. It is just a thought that came across me as I was reading about meeting someplace warm... Think about it. It is truly something to put yourself in her shoes and experience her in real life rather than taking her to another location where she may not be her true self. It was just a thought and by no means meant to put anyone down for wanting to meet someone in a place warm. I just look at it from a different perspective. I think being there in any condition shows an earnest desire to be with someone.
heck, I suggested meeting in Spain for my second meeting. It had nothing to do with the weather. I just thought it would be cool. And now, I am checking my supply of thermals and such for a winter trip to her home. No doubt it is going to be cold. They had snow last week.
Julian...cold????...try freezzzing. I was in St Pete's one February day.....blue skies, sun out BUT ice/frozen snow on ground, I had a beenie, scarf, jacket, sweater, shirt and thermals on, it was so cold I had to go into shops every couples minutes or my face would get frost bite, I think it was -16C. Only time colder in my life was Halifax, Nova Scotia a place not far from there near the ocean, -27C (with wind chill)and my moustache had icicles hanging!!
Not very easy to get girl a visa for Spain, I think Italy is easier.
beemer - Halifax? Interesting I was on a 20 day trip with my then wife. July 2000. Went for the Tall Ships fest. Very cool. Night 5 on the trip, somewhere north & west of Fundy Bay at a B&B she tells me she wants a divorce while we are in the hot tub after a privately catered meal for two. WTF? Coninued the trip - great golf course at the upper end of NS. Even after she says she wants divorce -- sex got better ;) Never it made to PEI. Started in Maine through NB etc. did the whole loop. Anyway, I forgot where this was gong...
Oh yeah, GF - fiance - and I are spending ten days together in Russia. Her next trip will hopefully be to US of A. But I am thinking it will not be as cold as in Moscow or St Pete. But still cold for sure.
If there is a delay or we decide to take a trip I was looking into med cruises. Nothin like being locked up on a ship to gage the temprament of a woman. Norwegian Cruise lines offer a few med cruises. I think it would not be too difficult for her to get passage from Russia for such a trip. Point of departure is Greece or there-abouts. End up in barcelona or France. I have good tales from France.
beemer -- to answer your question -- it was because it was short notice and I had already committed to Kiev. If I had the luxury of time I would have made a different trip. It is what it is. No regrets.