Believe me, Martin. There was plenty of opinions about the US Presidential elections in Ukraine. I got there after the election in November of 2008, and I still heard them. I am sorry to say that I haven't read up on the platform of either candidate. Perhaps, this thread will help me/us. There are three issues that I look for: economy, corruption, and how the country will treat us foreigners looking for a spouse.
I don't follow Ukrainian politics (it's really depressing), but here is a "nutshell":
Almost exactly 5 years ago, thousands of people were protesting in Independence Square (yes, the Maidan Nezhaleznosti where so many of us guys have trod) the announcement that the late 2004 elect had been won by ... Viktor Yanukovich. People believed (rightly, I am confident) that the election had been rigged, and eventually pushed the government into re-running the election with better controls. The result, Yanukovich was defeated, and his rival Yuschenko (also a Viktor) the winner.
By way of background, it was reported that Yanukovich was Putin's (Russia's) man. Russia wants to have her own hand-picked guys running the former Soviet republics, you see. Also, while the person who, shortly before that election, poisoned Yuschenko with dioxon (the reason his face is so cratered) was never identified, but one might suppose that this person was more likely a Yanukovich supporter. Get it?
So 5 years later, Ukraine has elected the man whose election they fought so hard to overthrow.
Texasdude is right on target: It's the economy. BTW, love the new avatar Tex!
Regarding the 'orange revolution' of 5 years ago, it was something that was blown out of all proportion, as usual, by the media.
I was travelling to Kiev at that time, watching TV etc. beforehand I had serious concerns, but I went and, yes, I first hand witnessed them camped out on the main drag in Kiev, I witnessed these, so called, demonstrations and what I witnessed was friendly demonstrations whilst the 2 sides would exchange friendly banter with each other but, according to the media, it sounded like there was a civil war going on which was nonsense.
RB,
Correct me if I'm wrong but as I recall the only people discussing the US election here were Americans.
But, generally speaking, and this was made apparent in a recent thread regarding visa's etc. So many of you are beating the well worn path to Ukraine simply because so many of you are too lazy, or too stingy, or both lazy and stingy, to apply for a visa to other FSU country(s), these Ukrainian women have become an over commercialised product, and they know it, since Ukraine relaxed visa requirements but, it seems, many guys just cannot see it, they don't care as long as they don't need a visa!
So what if Ukraine and it's politics goes pear shaped, find another country to travel to or would be expecting one(s) to apply for a visa be asking too much?
I'm laughing, so when one meets, what he believes to be, the lady of his dreams and she asks him "Why me?" what's he going to reply ..... "Well you were a $50 visa application cheaper than other ladies" :)
I would sure liek to see the Ukraine standing on it's own, neither under the shadow of the west or Russia. It is the richest land I have seen. The crash of the world's economy has dealt a severe blow to that end. Moving back to the past may for the winter of 2010 and 2011 keep the heat on, but the cost will be high in what could be. The future of a prosperous Ukraine is in Kiev ,,,,, not Moscow
i was in kiev during the orange revolution. i thought it was one of the more incredible experiences of my life. there was a feeling in the air, like you could almost taste the hope of the people. it was awesome. of course there was the drunken hooligans that yanukovich bused in from the east. thankfully they didn't cause too much problems. probably because they were outnumbered 100 to one.
i don't think it would be possible to overhype what happened those two weeks in ukraine.
sadly,
all the good feeling is gone. and now the party that poisons people. the party that pays people to protest, led by the guy whos convicted of rape and other offenses, is now the leader.
i wouldn't say this is a great day for ukraine.
lets hope the people will have the 'ability' to reelect another president in four years if they choose to.
Martin, you want only Ukrainians to post their opinions on their president in this forum?
I think I rode with President Yuschenko from Germany to Kiev in February of '08. I had a layover of maybe 4 hours. Going into the plane, there was an unusual security check. They checked passports and carry on baggage carefully. I always go through Germany and they don't usually do that when you are already in the terminal. When we were all in the shuttlebus in Kiev, a big limousine, almost as as the shuttle bus appeared surrounded by security personnel in suits. Running out of the plane, a man that looked like the president gets into the limousine. Noone in the shuttle bus seemed to notice or care.
The original poster asks if 'we' think the right choice of Ukrainian president has been made.
Well, according to BBC news a few hours ago, the election result isn't yet in so no choice has, yet, been made/decided however who are 'we' to decide, or indeed disagree, what the majority of Ukrainian people have decided is the best choice of president for them?
And, please, let's not get on to any corruption topic because, many of us know, Ukraine is so corrupt that would be a never ending topic. :)
The Orange Circus – set up by the likes of Geo Soros and other Western influence backing has been squandered and destroyed by the two Clowns (Yuschenko & Tymoshenko) who fronted the “so called” revolution.
These two clowns acted like immature leaders that they were and were only in it for what they could gain for themselves. Then they went against each other and The President went off on silly anti Russian agendas the likes of the “Great Famine” and other Stalin past acts etc. He spent more time and $$ on protection of Bats and the likes than positioning his country for the pending economic downturn brought about by the World financial crisis.
Exports have literally ground to a halt under their leadership. Corruption has skyrocketed by high level politicians and the likes – just following their Leaders path of self greed and rape of the public coffers !!!!!!
The new leader Yanukovych – cant be any worse than the prior lot.
Pro Russian he maybe – but what choice does Ukraine have now after blowing their chances with the Western EU etc. Better to get back to the basics of Trading with big brother and working towards reproducing Primary produce/exports.
Ukraine is now more divided in two than it ever was before, not good for going forward.
So how many other countries prepared for the downturn or did it take many, if not all, countries by, short notice, surprise?
This country (UK) is seriously in the sh1t, have you been watching the news regarding the crisis in Greece at the moment, General Motors etc. etc. etc. certainly didn't prepare for it so where, in this respect, has Ukraine phucked up?
5 years of demolishing Ukrainian economy these are the "Orange Revolution" results. Yanukovich is not the best person in the world but his team is professional and competent.
Unfortunately Ukraine is along for the ride. The economic breakdown is the result of political policies in the US over 2 decades that are too complex for this discussion, but those policies triggered the downturn and the "Lemmings keep jumping off the cliff" and the politicians just throw other peoples money at the poor decisions of the past. Quite simply, if you can't manage a bank of large company,,, "pick up a shovel". There was a bumper sticker on the bumper of these "Old Hippies" Volkswagon van that read,,,, "Ass,Grass or Gas Nobody Rides for Free" They seemed to have forgotten and just gotten greedy. Every problem has a solution whether it is economic or environmental, "Stuff money in my Fratunity Bother's pockets and everything will be utopian. Ukraine was left economicly unsupported when they turned to the west during these days. Still the past is the past and as I wrote before Ukraine's prosperity is centered in Kiev and in the future, not in the past or in another country. In a globalist's economy and way of thinking,there is just not enough time in one life to get around to assisting everyone, take care of the elite first. Reagan had "Trickle Down Economics" we now have "Piss on You Economics" World Wide "I Gots Mine Mo Fo"
Yanukovich was Prime minister for some time during the last 5 years. His chief agenda was to strip away the powers of the President leading to his being voted out. Now he is President. Expect to see him want more power for the president.
They are all in it for themselves pretty much like all politicians.
I subscribe to a couple of Ukranian online newspapers. A straight Russian version, not an English remake. I let Google Translate do the heavy work.
Ukraine politics is so fractious & often corrupt that even are completely disillusioned by it. We very wise western men can have our opinions but I doubt any of us is going to have any clearer a picture.
Back to the original post, unfortunately the election results issue is not completely settled. Despite the Election Commission declaring Yanukovych the newly elected president (and the election being declared "open & fair by international observers)the incumbent Prez - Ms. Tymoshenko has cried the elections were corrupt, vows not to concede to her dying breath (bit of drama). Now things are in an atypical Ukraine political mess. At bottom of this post is the headline from a story off of a Ukraine newspaper.
Whatever your beliefs of the Orange Revolution, you do not take a country have spent decades under the regimented system of Soviet governance, declare it a free & open democracy overnight & expect things to come up smelling roses. I've spent some time looking at this, wanting to have some understanding of it if I did find a Ukraine wom,an. Thanks to some insight from TexasDude while he was actually THERE, and reading their own stories....the opportunists, money brokers & power seekers swept in. Not only are the Ukranian people jaded by not believing a word they hear, the IMF suspend it's last huge $ contribution due to political issues.
So naturally there was a groundswell from a segment of people wanting to return to a "Soviet style" rule. At least then there was structure & order.
Is he the best man for the job? If he clears out the cronyism, political infighting, corruption etc... then there's likely going to be lot more willingness for outside economic support. Those providing it no longer having to worry what rabbit hole all their $ support disappeared into.
That is my OUTSIDERS opinion. If he is the freely elected president, that MAKES him the best man. The decision made by the people who actually "live it" day in, day out.
News Headline - Tymoshenko Urges Judges To Be Unbiased While Considering Lawsuits Challenging Results Of Elections
The president must be wary of assasination attempts. The "president" that I rode with took no less than five seconds to go down the stairs and into the limousine.
I too am actually “THERE” or here, even. I try not to enter into discussions about the election and politics generally with my friends here and with my girl, simply because I am a guest in Ukraine, a foreigner, an outsider and this is THEIR business, not mine. But I do listen to them speak with each other about it all, I understand maybe 35% Russian now, and my girl often translates the heated or lively discussions everybody has to me. My girl went arm in arm with her best friend to vote last week while I stayed here at home, she voted Tymoshenko, in-case you're interested.
What I've learnt is that the vast majority of Ukrainians here in the West do not trust any politicians, they say that Eastern Ukrainians feel exactly the same way.
I've learnt that Yanukovich is seen as stupid, a little dumb, cannot articulate properly, and sometimes makes fatal mistakes when he refers to a particular historical event. I've just searched for examples on Google, and found many ! He has a kind of George W image here. Eggs were thrown at him in L'viv during his campaign, although we all know politicians in our own countries we'd love to lob and egg or two at I guess. Yanukovich has also been in prison, I think twice. The Ukrainians who did not vote for him are concerned not only about his policies, but also what image of Ukraine the world will have when he begins flying around the globe and commencing his inevitable meetings of world leaders. I did ask how he got elected, with such view of him from so many, I've been told that the East of Ukraine is far larger than here in the West, and, although his rival Tymoshenko is herself from the East, it's Yanukovich who is the vastly popular one there, so the majority of his votes have not come from the West of Ukraine.
Apparently 2 of his policies are to punish severely woman beaters, and pursue EU membership with a vengeance. I'll soon begin reading up on him and his future intentions, I just hope he understands the importance of foreigners visiting and even living in his country contributing to the economy !!!
I'm laughing at your mentioning of stupid, dumb, inarticulate etc. and immediately thereafter making referral to George W. :)
The rest of the world really did think of him as a jackass, not mentioning any previous US presidents in particular, but it's seems kind of a crazy situation that if/when US finds a good president they fire him after a period of 8 years and, in his place, bring in a frigging idiot. :)
I will say that Bush moved me when he spoke from Ground Zero a couple of days after 911 though. I know there's so much more to a Presidency than a few words, and I know he has a lot to answer for, but his words have always stuck in my mind......He speaks to the rescue workers from a megaphone, one shouts "we cant hear you Mr President' Bush replies "But I can hear you, and the people who knocked down these buildings will hear ALL of us soon"