The year was 2008 - somehow, whilst at work, I stumble across 2 evil sites - DM & HRB (please don't make me say then out loud!) Wow, 244 hot young girls want me now!!! Nirvana.......wait, wheres my credit card - just one try, I'll just purchase a small amount of chat time one time! Its a curiosity - that's all!
Despite all the great info dispensed here by some well versed individuals - did I listen??? no.......so, 4 years, and $$$$$$$$$$$$$ later, I finally just got on a plane and went to Ukraine. I knew all along it had to be done....but this "addiction" was getting crazy.
In Kiev now - I return to Canada tomorrow. Arrived Kiev March 15. I planned to meet a few girls. Of course them AND their interpreter AND their best friend AND their dog ad nauseum...It went as I expected, not as I hoped. Hot cam girl can get any man in Ukraine is she just wants to fuck. And these girls are smart "man thinking" women. "Why marry the cow, when she can get the milk for free!"
Kiev to Kirovograd by taxi - girl never showed although for months she professed her love and hot passion for me (at $.99 / minute)
Hotel reception girl was very sweet, innocent and hot. She offered to be my city guide. She always dressed up hot - even for coffee. Never had to spend big money - she enjoyed walking everywhere AND she spoke English.....(guys.......never, I say never waster your time with a woman who cannot speak English...no matter how hot she is...unless its just for sex.) I went for one, met another, very unexpectedly....sadly, in the end, she was married with a small daughter...which confused me considering how hot she looked every time we met - and, considering the fact we had some heavy petting...nothing more - it was nice.
Krivoy Rog - waste of time - girl of 10 months never showed - she had swimming...WTF? I came 6000 miles and you have swimming? (honestly, these girls like North American me, because they never really expect us to travel all this way)....most men enjoy a little sexy chat and move on...and the girls know it so they cna play it up real good! My arrival (which by the way, was planned with each girl), still caught them off-guard.
Nikolaev - 2 girls never showed although they still wanted to chat online - even though I was 10 minutes from their apartment....not! Met one girl who is a local, just minding her own business, and she was lovely - I hope to see her again in October. Problem in Nikolaev is, everyone, I mean everyone knows why you are there - telling one girl you are off to see historical ruins, will garner a BIG belly laugh....These girls all know men meet multiple women. If you are serious in your search, and you visit more than one, this makes it tough. Tell a girl she is the only one - she won't believe you unless you spend every waking moment together. The people in the street, shops, cafes, THE MEN - they all know you are here for "their girls".
My humble advice, meet one girl if she is the one - if you are looking for fun...multiple girls are fine.....
Odessa - one day and left too big to handle in a short 1-2 days. if you need to hook up, always older women hanging out on the street in from front of McDonalds...older but, they are well experienced and a little bit of a freak - good times.
Been in Kiev for 6 days - expensive...and nothing to show for it - drunk club girls don't count... can do that anywhere.
The women are all hot - duh...even the young ones in training....from what I could see, these women were not clammering to get out of nasty Ukraine. In fact, none of the girls I met in my travels did not want to leave. I had this perception that all girls / women were scrambling to leave Ukraine for greener pastures....some yes, most no! And they are not easy girls by any means.It will cost you time, patience, money with no guarantee.
During my trip I visited a couple of agencies - girls in the back hunting and pecking on computers. Yes, this is a business. Are all girls sincere - most yes...do they know what they want?? not really - hence endless hours of distraction chatting online. The girls I met in Kirovograd and Nikolaev were, for the most part - just bored! So, they chat...its that simple. The agencies do write/reply with letters.
Girls use the big flower market just off Sovetskaya St; they/agency pays the flower shop owner 10 Grivnia, to get a photo taken with some flowers and leaves with the photo....AND, without the flowers. I don't like the word scam - I think of it as a hustle...why? because we all know it happens, yet we continue to use these services, and then bitch about it.
My advice, one girl, learn some Russian and culture, make an effort to look decent for these girls. The hotel I stayed in, happened to have some men associated with A Foreign Affair. They were here to meet a bride and export them back to North America. It was good entertainment. Guys dressed like they are on their way to Home Depot. Gentlemen, these girls do not need to be saved by the big heron from North America or Europe! make an effort - look / act your best!
None of the website girls panned out - and I am not surprised - But, I will I return in November to see one woman I met here locally. Surprisingly enough, she works at the big flower market.
I had a lot different experience myself with HRB and Anastasia. I never had one no show. I had a lot of shows that were total photoshop girls thinking they were hot... not!
I think I met 30 girls off Anastasia and most were photoshopped to the max. I met 5 off HRB, but still with the one I chose. We both chose each other. She happened to be the hottest girl in the agencies. Not all is perfect, but it is good. We have our small issues, but what couple doesn't? She doesn't speak much English, but she is studying it now.
It's not easy. You got to be stylish and yes, I can vouch that not one girl I met was real eager to leave Ukraine. They all know that life is hard in Ukraine and a lot of them dream of marrying the young handsome rich guy. All admitted how even more hard it would be to leave everything they know to go some other place. If you live in some small city in US/Europe/AUS/Asia and try to marry a big city Ukraine girl? Forget about it..
That is the truth, but most all of them said if they were in love they would follow their man if they were married...
Apa1, it's not about if they live in a big city and you live in a small city. It's about work, and how much money it will make them. Being in a bigger city can be more stressful everyday. Being in a smaller city will make them X amount of dollars since even minimum wage is a lot better than in Ukraine. Think of it as a stepping stone.
They know generally anywhere they will go in more wealthier countries is a good idea.
Your comment about being stylish. Be yourself and not a fake! They will catch you being face more than your very shiny shoes....
Zarkey, I disagree. In the FSU most people who live in a big city live in an apartment and everything is close, such as schools, friends, family, buses, taxis and shops and to many this is very important and the norm. You don't need that much money to live and the quality of life is pretty good for many and not that stressful. It would be a huge change for someone who lives in a big city to move to a small town in another country. Of course it depends on the girls personality, some could handle it, but I wouldn't think many would. Some could look at it from the financial point of view, but what would they do with the money...many who work in Europe do so just to buy their own apartment back home.
apal and ben have got it precisely here. From the moment I first set foot in Ukraine it was obvious to me that the degree of European sophistication of the girls would not be compatible with many American men.Generally I have advised girls I know that they will find much easier adapting to western EU.
It is a vast change of lifestyle to go to small town nowheresville in US (or Australia for the record) .To achieve it successfully would require a REAL LIFE LOVE AFFAIR !!
Even to move to a big city-- my own city is a very cosmopolitan city-- would need real commitment.There is a vast difference of lifestyle from living in inner city area to the suburbs --let alone coming from out of system.
The idea of girls being economic refugees is outdated now-- that is a point that needs to be recognised.Some of my friends there are not materially deprived either-- compare quite well with similar ages here-- and in some cases they run their own business,own apartment(or 2!) drive a new car( for Americans-- cars are more than twice US price and are comparable cost to Australia),holiday in some interesting places around the world.While unemployment is still high,basic wages is still low,there are many doing a lot better now.
It all means that guys need to understand this simple point-- you are not going to be able to buy these girls.
In a small city in Canada everything is close to them.
We're not talking about some stickville in the United States.
Quality of life here is good?? When were you here last? Have you been to Ukraine? It's very stressful in this country if you have a serious job that doesn't pay well.
The average store manager makes $500US a month. Is this good? An apartment in Kiev is $500.
Where I am from, my city is smaller, but it has just as much as Kiev as.
It's like were all talking about some outback city, which I am not.
Zarkey, I live there actually. Well not Ukraine but Moldova. Its next door and wages are less than Ukraine. I have friends who earn less than $500 and still live well. Like JayH says people often own their apartment or live with family so don't pay mortgage or rent. Here 500 euro per month is considered ok, but 1000 euro per month people see this as income where you can live comfortably. It may not seem much but a bus to the center which runs every 5 minutes (there's lots to different parts of the city) is around 10cents a trip, a taxi to the center is $3 to $4, cigarettes are $2 or less, a 500ml bottle of beer in the bar is $2 and you can buy fresh fruit and veg that is grown locally cheap (now you can get 1kg of Cherries for $2 on the street as they are in season). People don't waste anything. Bills for apartments are similarly cheaper. I tell people who want to move to Europe, sure you can earn more but your cost of living is going to be much higher (typically have have no idea how more expensive it is). And that their quality of life won't be necessarily as good as here. They are used to going to watch a movie for a few bucks, to a park for a BBQ, for a free open air concert in town, visit family and friends for birthdays etc even on a wage of $500. I see people much more stressed in Europe (I've not been to Canada unfortunately, but life in the west I know its easy).
Zarkey, not saying life in Canada in your city would be bad and its not possible. But the thing its important to set their expectations from the beginning and don't assume because shes going to be financially better off that she will be forever thankful because you saved her from her previous life. Some could adjust and love it, but others don't even think about it carefully and end up disappointed.
Zarkey - Completely disagree with you. You sound like you haven't even spent much time in Ukraine or have a strange foreign naive way of looking at big city life in Ukraine.
Its a good idea for Ukrainians to be in another country? Again, you sound like you are someone who is brainwashed by agency hype...
I'll restate what I meant... If you live in some small town in any country in the world.. US.Canada.UK. wherever... and you are trying to pick up on a girl from Odessa or Kiev or even Nikolaev with everything they want and all their own family and friends nearby and you think those same girls really are eager to leave with you? That is about as stupid a statement as it gets.
PS> IF you have to fake being stylish? You aren't and you shouldn't even try to find a girl. I seen tons of guys like you hopping off of busses and looking all dazed and confused in the big cities, wearing sandals, t-shirts, hoodies, wind-breakers, and such thinking by speaking English your going to grab each beautiful young girl. Boy, you guys don't know what these girls say about you all behind your back...
I'm 26, I am going to marry in October with my girlfriend. I have NEVER been scammed by any Ukrainian woman.
The only reason why most of the people here get scammed, is because they ask for it, and they're old. Most scammers love older men because they have money, and they're easier to get.
My girlfriend looked at the posts from Ben and JayH yesterday. She said and I quote: "Like a bunch of men who just make up lies to make themselves feel better and don't know much about Ukranian women, or never stepped foot here".
I am in Kiev right now, I've been here for awhile, and I'm back here in October.
My girlfriend will be coming to me to Canada, because she wants to. Do you know how many girls want to leave for America? A LOT. Before when I talked to alot of real girls my age, they said they wished they could leave, and take their family with them. It would be a lot better for them. Or goto school as well.
APl1, I'll even show you a picture of me and my girlfriend. It's a lot of you guys who use angencies and get used. I never used one, and never will, because I found my girl.
My job is to help older men not be scammed, and try to lead them a better life. However, if they think they know everything, like yourself, and want to be scammed, that is their choice.
Another point of why my girlfriend liked me from start is because I come from a Ukrainian background, and I am not a dirty old man.
The problem with most guys here, is they stereotype. Every woman is different. You can't judge just based on what you think is the norm. Some of you act like Ukraine is a meat market. I have no use for these people. I will help people like Gary lead their journey the right way.
Some coming from Ukranian grand-parents, and being here for awhile, I pretty much know more than most of the guys here.
Zarkey, ask your girlfriend why I would lie and exactly what I lied about. Reread what I wrote. Never stepped foot there...I live in Moldova its an 1 hour drive away :)
"Ben, my girlfriend wants to come to Ukraine. She is a store manager."
I assume you mean Canada? Of course if you want to compare the financial benefits of working in Ukraine to Canada of course its better. Your making out that its such a poor country girls are queuing up to leave and marry any guy. Its not the case.
"For her to do what she needs to do in Ukraine, would take 10 years. Here no."
Ben, I also said, 500US, not 500EUROS. There's a difference. "
I know you said that. But I didn't say you said Euro, what I said in Moldova 500 euro is considered ok. I wasn't referring to your girls salary and I know what the exchange rate. I think what Apal was referring is the importance of family. For your girlfriend it may not be important but for many it is. You think your Canadian city has everything Kiev does, well it doesn't have your girlfriends friends and family there for a start. From my experience the girls you want to meet and marry are the ones who aren't looking to escape.
Zerk - Why don't you ask your girl if every beautiful girl in a big city like Kiev and Odessa wants to have a small town American life? I want to hear her own answer and see if I believe it.
You want to tell me that each one of these girls you know in Ukraine is just dying to be married to an American.Canadian and won't mind at all to end up living in a small town? That's what I'm talking about and you don't know what you're talking about.
Perhaps some girl from a small town or village who has had a hard life won't have such a culture shock, but if you are talking about a beautiful girl from the big cities who likes disco, theatre, opera, shopping and going to restaurants really wants to give up her shared apartment with girlfriend.family to do the small town life? You're lying to these guys here and to yourself.
Yet, if a girl is in love, she is willing to follow her man, but seriously doubt she will go from big city lights to small farm. I think they once had a TV comedy "Green Acres" that showed it can be done. lol!
Don't come off telling these guys that big city Ukraine girls are dying to leave for America, because I have not met a single one of those girls in person while living.working in Ukraine for 13 months of the last 36 months on business and meeting them in every walk of life. Sure, they like foreigners money compared to a cheap Ukraine guy.
What I want to know is how long were you there and how many girls did you meet? One or two girls you meet and you're the expert? You are going to stand by the statement that ALL Ukraine girls you met are dying to come to America and live in a small town? And you expect any of us here to believe that agency hype?
http://www.hotrussianbrides.com/russian-women/true-russian-women- stories.htm - Ekaterina and Mark. We plan to marry next Year.
Ben is correct that most girls I met have Family is their #1 important aspect of their entire life. It is a very serious matter. Have you had the specific conversation about what it means for those girls to think about leaving friends and family to go out of the country? It's the first question I ask and its never what Zarkey is telling these guys... "try to lead them a better life..." and "They know generally anywhere they will go in more wealthier countries is a good idea. "
Uhm, okay... not!
You are unrealistic and are preaching the agency lie to these guys and setting up some guys to believe that lie that I never saw the entire time I spent there.
How many girls did you meet and have this exact conversation with them? Or are you just making this up? Because no matter what you try to say, I never once ever heard in my entire time there that these girls are all dying to leave Ukraine "to have a better life" Nonesense and agency dribble.
The numbers you guys are throwing out there for income, is way off for the average girl! A girl who worked in a hair salon in Nikolaev, 2010 earned 2400UKR,,,or 300USD! She also worked long hours several days a week, 10 to 12 hour days!
A girl who worked at a clothing factory in Sumy 2011 earned 2100UKR,, long days but only 4 days a week! Her mother also worked at this sweat shop!
My ex girl moved to Kiev to find a higher paying job. I found her resume’ on two different personals websites, one was Bee line. She was applying for a manager position at a beauty salon with a specialty in Acrylic nails. The wage she was willing to work for was 2600UKR!!! ? She talked about how the same jobs in Kiev, earned twice as much as in her home town!
She eventually found that job she wanted, but before, worked as a phone operator/dispatcher for a taxi company in Kiev. She worked 24 to 32 hour shifts?!! I would have thought her a liar,,, who was just giving excuses not to see me,,, if I had not witnessed something even worse in Kherson! The hotel staff at the Muscat Hotel work 48 hour shifts???? I seen it with my own eyes!
These girls are also living in conditions that would be 100% unacceptable to us! My ex couldn’t find a place she could afford on her own, and had to move into an old ladies apartment. The place had three bedrooms, one for the old lady, one for a married couple, and one my girl shared with another girl!! This other girl worked odd hours too,,, and usually came home when mine was trying to sleep!! They did not get along!
She now has a much higher paying job, about 4500UKR, and a better apartment which costs 3500 to 4000UKR? I don’t know how she can afford it, and I don’t know if she is still sharing it? She is on her 3rd flat as far as I know.
As for the girls wanting to leave the Ukraine,,,, they all say it in their letters,,, but not always in person. I will show a girl that I’m interested in, every photo I have of myself and from around my home! They all love it in their letters! They love “the” nature, the forests and lakes. Would love to take walks in our forests, our own forests ,,, not just all of the state and county parks that are within a 20 minute drive of my home. They all say; that they will move to where their beloved lives,,,, but most have no intentions of moving anywhere,,, they don’t want to leave their family and boyfriends!!!
If a girl chooses a life on her own in a big city, over a life with us in any city,,, big or small,,, doesn’t that tell us something??? It is reason enough to move on.
During my travels, I’ve been asked at least twice if I would consider moving to Ukraine?? I have to say; No!
I talked to a dozen of girls, but I really liked this one since we been talking for 8 months untill we met.
There's alot of women in America from Ukraine, and going to Canada too. Either just immigrating or wanting to live there.
They will try to bring their family over. In Canada, this is possible.
In the U.S it's the same. They will try to bring their family over as well over time.
I think it comes to the point of what happens in the end. If you're getting married, you must settle somewhere. It's either come with me, or I stay here.
It's not for everyone, but I know a lot to make the move.
For example. One woman, she used a travel website to goto the U.S, her visa was going to expire, but she loved America so much, she married an American. Happens all the time. Apal1, wake up dude.
I showed you my pic, my story, I am real. Stop hiding behind sun glasses. Ukrainian women don't like it lol
Plus, if you live in a small down, usually here, it takes 10 mins to enter a bigger city. Wow, 10 mins, jesus, that's like... 24hrs in your time? Yeah right.