I talked to my lady and she said she had talked to her exhusband and he refuses to let her son leave UA. She does not have full custody but she receives NOTHING from him. the father is good to the son and buys him gifts.
I'm at a loss so I know I am missing some details but....
Sorry to learn of your situation. I think it's not so unusual.
When I contact women with children (and many of my contacts are mothers), I ask early on about the legal status of their child. In both Ukraine and Russia (and I guess many other countries as well), a minor can't be taken out of the country by one parent without the consent of the other.
As a practical matter, if a woman wants to relocate to a foreign country, her child's father must go through a legal proceeding in which he completely renounces his parental rights. If he simply gives consent to an exit WITHOUT renouncing his parental rights, he could change his mind later, meaning that any visit of the child back to the home country (say, to visit grandparents) could become a one-way trip.
One exception to all this, is when mother was unmarried at birth, and no father's name is listed on the birth certificate: in that case (I am told, but not by a legal authority) no father's consent is required.
Sometimes, fathers who are not involved with their children demand money (large sums) in exchange for relinquishing parental rights. If the woman is a scammer, this situation would make an opportunity for collusion (the father -- if he is the child's father! -- could split the ransom money with her).
However, in your situation the father apparently has joint custody, and an ongoing relationship with the boy. If he loves his son, he won't be "bought off."
Another VERY IMPORTANT consideration are the child's needs. If he loves his dad, do you want to tear them apart?
Two questions, if you don't mind:
Is he supposed to pay child support (is there an agreement or governmental order that he is supposed to pay)? If not, it makes no difference that he doesn't provide financial support. If he IS required to pay and hasn't been, it MIGHT make a little difference.
How long have you known this woman, and how well do you know each other? Do you know why she decided to pursue an international relationship without making sure that she could move to another country?
The ex does is not required to pay anything.
i started communication with her in April and spent July with her in her city and talk daily ever since then. well always have.
She was not pursuing me. we met and just hit it off. she has said though she really does not want to stay in UA, and she will only go if she is in love. she is divorced and does not want to be divorced again.
Let this be an eye opener to those pursuing FSU woman with kids. There will be a big toll to pay for legal issues involved; besides, the time and emotional bonding involved. This is HER fight, not yours. And, your involvement will be perceived negatively. What if your relationship fails? You will be held responsible, even emotionally responsible. Based on my experience and observation both in the USA and UA step-parenting is not the same. Like Durak, when I come across a single mother, I ask those tough questions. I hope for no legal shenanigans of this matter.
Respectfully, I think the question to ask at this moment is:
"Even if there were a way to forcibly separate father and son, would it be the right thing to do?"
If I want to start a family so much that I am willing to break the family bonds of another, what do I really stand for?
It is a very sad and painful situation. Fundamentally, it is a matter between the woman and her ex husband, what to decide about the boy's future living situation. IF the father really trusted her, maybe he would agree to let his son live in another country, with a solemn commitment that they have a certain amount of time together each year. It's a difficult challenge. I wish good luck, to every one involved in this family situation.
i want to meet with him and offer that the son goes home for each summer to be with his dad and dad's parents. I think a whole summer with them is a good arrangement and both can be happy with it.
What you intend to propose, could be the "happy medium" for all involved. Years ago, I was considering a situation similar to yours, and what you are thinking of is similar to what I had in mind (as it turned out, my relationship with that woman ended, so we never had the "cross that bridge").
I'd appreciate it a lot, if you would come back to the forum to tell us how it went. Many people who want to make an international family will have such challenges, and this thread could be really helpful for them.
She can try to deprive his parental rights. if she apply to the court and he will not pay alimony for adout 6 months it will be enough.
If he doesnt permit his child to go to foreign country(for rest? for instanse) it can be considered as abuse of parental rights/
He must have valid BIG reason to prihibid the child to go to foreign country to live, if/when she go to court(if she marries with you)for court permission for child.
There are MANY ways to act
Forcibly taking a child from a relationship with a parent is not a good thing. However, I wonder about a parent does not have a good relationship with the child and will use the child as a hostage to take a bribe.
Vesnovska gave good information. However, what if the parent starts to pay his small child support again to support his asking for a large bribe?
i think Vesnovka info stinks,, the knife in the back style of play.
but hey i'm only a father of two kids who never went to court.
it could have if one ran with emotions and wanting personal gain..
theres circumstances to many things why child support or anything is done or not done.
one always needs to take a step back and look at what ever the emotional situation is and do things that are morally right, not because some lawyer says we can do it this way or one may think its a easy option.
if i got this style of play from my ex, court rubbish and some russian was moving them to motherland i would have made her life hell on earth.
depending on his play in it, even russia isnt far enough for him either.
again, communication with all, understanding everyone's emotions that are based on love and trust is paramount.
Ready form a relationship with the father,, its not going to be a quick thing,, in this you will see if its love or spite thats the problem from all angles..
then you will have a better understanding of what needs to be done..
I trust that Vesnovka's information is accurate, as far as it goes.
As I understand it, ordinary people in the FSU have less protection of their rights in the court system, than most of us expect in the west. As a matter of survival, when you live in such a system, you must learn how to "play the game".
In Ukraine, where Ready's lady lives with her child, it is (by reputation) quite normal for magistrates to accept bribes, so that anyone with enough money can get the court decision they need -- if the other side is not so wealthy.
Personally, I experienced a crushing loss that was a consequence of someone else's ideas about starting a family (not the same as the situation Ready posted about). Though it was devastating for me, I also thought, "how sad for them ... what a way to begin the most important thing in their lives." I thought of verses from the gospel:
... weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children. ... For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry? [Luke 23]
So, I'm with kiwinorth -- creation of a family is about caring, respect, and affection. Surely, it's better this be done in a way that nobody might feel ashamed of.
For me it would depend on what kind of troubles the father was causing. Is he a caring father or some jerk just trying to get as much money as possible.
An American might want to avoid the Ukrainian court system too.
She need to apply for child support to the court, (without insisting on payment) , wait until the debt accumulated , and then sue the father of the child . In some countries it is possible for the debt to jail if you try .I dont think, that the father will be happy to pay big debt, and there is a chance to "exchance" the debt to permission By the way , having a child support debt is the reason for prohibition for father to leave a country.
The reasons for deprivation of parental rights :
1 evasion to perform the duties of parents , including the willful refusal to pay child support ;
2 refusal without justifiable reasons to take your child home from the hospital ( department ) or from other medical facilities, educational institutions, social protection of the population , or other similar institutions ;
3 abuse their parental rights ;
4 child abuse , including the implementation of a physical or mental violence against them , an attempt on their sexual integrity ;
5 alcoholism or drug addiction ;
6 premeditated crimes against life and health of their children , or against the life or health of the spouse .
In case of disagreement , or the inability to obtain the consent of the other parent of the minor child to leave for permanent residence in another country must apply to the court for permission to leave, by presenting evidence to the court that the father was not involved in raising a child , there was no material support, that the father abused his parental rights ( did not give permission for the child to going for rest abroad , blackmailed the woman ( collect evidence , audio recordings , for example) , didnt let the child training (for example, the mother wanted to take out a child on summer English courses in English-speaking countries , but he did not give permission (and she had to go to court with a request permission to leave ) .
(parental abuse is the use of their rights to the detriment of the child. )
At the ñourt hearing will consider all the circumstances in connection with which the place of residence of the minor changes . Financial situation of ther spouse (future spouse)will be investigated if the change of residence is associated with a parent's marriage .
Court may examine the possible economic , social and material conditions in which the minor will reside .
You can still try to adopt a child ( at least in Kazakhstan , it does not require the consent of the biological father) if it can be proven that the father of the child is not engaged in education , financial support has not, etc etc.
It seems from the Ukraine to the leaving of the child requires permission of the other parent , but of Russia and some other countries do not .But customs officials may abuse their rights and to demand such a document , but here it is necessary to show them an excerpt from the law.
and do not try on yourself this occasion , dear daddy defenders, he fails to fulfill his duties , to reflect it's right or not . Daddy is not worried about the child, it does not matter to him how the child lives , what eats , what wearing , what kind of training he needs , and etc ( I assume that the mother is not lying ) He did not provide a better life, but doesnt let to do this the child's mother , guided by revenge of ex-wife , or banally thinks about financial support from the grown child ( according to our laws )
Kiwinorth- if you divorse, will you support your children or not? Or will you byu the child's love by some gift, trying to show "show of good daddy"?(I am still based on the fact that she is not lying, as the author wrote, but if she is lying, it is unlikely she will be able to apply these laws)
important-father may try to pay lower child support if works informally(showing in court that he is unemployed). In this occasion in court she must insist that he pay child support based on the average salary in the local area. Bad news- if his salary is half offisial half not- it would be almost impossible to prove that he has higher income
When one decides to marry another with a child, he must accept the fact that in all likelihood, the child will come first before him. I don't know Land of Oz's, (a forum member from a few years back) situation in its entirety, but I think that was his downfall.
A day or so before he found his wife and her son gone, he had a run in with her son. The kid was being bratty, wanting to be helped with his homework immediately, when just a little before that, Land of Oz was ready to do just that, but the kid was playing an electronic game. Land of Oz pointed a finger at him and told him to wait because he was trying to fix the furnace. It came right down to whose work was more important.
That's how I remember the story. Sorry if I got it wrong.
raging,, she was a complete bitch, it was a guaranteed mess from the start.
oz took a few short cuts, had enough of a been careful in his search, which didnt enable him to see what she was, its that simple..
never fast track relationships when you dont know the person.
how ever it ended really doesnt matter, it was going to happen one way or the other, child or not.
Vesnovka,, i hope you didnt think the "stinks" comment was aimed at you, i was getting at the court stuff you mentioned only..
i understand where you are coming from.
i think at times people go to court far to easily because of spite and emotions getting in the way of basic communication.
i have seen this far to often.
both party's often act like idiots, so court is the normal avenue of stupidity all the way from stupidity.
it almost always about been spiteful to the other or some competition..
crazy how love goes sour..
no i dont pay child support,, she earns a dream income compared to me.
support yes i do,, support doesnt have to mean it dictates gold, yes.
but that seems to be the common denominator around courts.
you cannot buy love, but we know that,,, it sure can can buy everything else tho.
as in my ex, we are still very supportive of each other, and she is also a good friend to my FSU girl..
people think our relationship is odd because we see each other as friends and share our lives.
that shows we are not the norm in how relationships end when they go sour it seems.