Same business as usual here in the forum. VK is the same - beauty, glamour and the profound. Funny, the slightest political disagreement would be all over social media in the west. This one, I saw one picture with hashtags, but no explanation. I had to ask. Fear from getting arrested, maybe?
A new revolution they call Euromaidan is brewing in Ukraine which many compare with the Orange Revolution. Protests against the government's reluctance to sign integration agreements with the west in favor of Russia were held in many cities throughout Ukraine. The public propaganda I have seen in Ukraine has been "No NATO", but now I wonder. It looks like that was government induced.
Protests were held in the last two days all over Ukraine. A mass demonstration is planned in Kiev on Sunday. Yulya Tymoshenko's release to travel to Germany for medical treatment is a condition from the west for the agreement. Gas is a factor since Ukraine gets its gas for heating from Russia.
Rb,,,, shortly after I had left Ukraine in 2009, Russia shut off the gas because Ukr was behind on their bills. Luckily the outage didn’t affect my girl’s hometown.
Russia pretty much stole the coal from the Lugansk area, then turns off the gas when they are behind on their payments. Real nice!
most people around the world Ragingbull are sick to death with how politics work with its wheeling and dealing and more so how its played off around military might.
i can understand people of Ukraine and their frustration.
i was over there the time when so called Nato(american frigate) visited Odessa.
they (america) had just finished their dirty business down in Georgia.
a bit like Russia and its carry ons today in Syria.
those riots were seriously cruel in Odessa, they just dont want that style of visit from america.
what i'm getting at we here in NZ would like to have a free trade deal also with the States and we deserve one.
but we do not want your ships visiting us either,,,,, Nato or not, specially any with nuclear strike capability.
thats just to political of old school style politics for many of us to handle.
many NZers still remember the sh#t America gave us after going nuclear missile free.
thats all we are, not nuclear free,,,, just nuclear missile free.
you can buy a small nuclear reactor down here if you want one to power up your home.
we have suffered on going consequences of that policy in our trade.
it has made us more independent but financially a lot poorer.
and behind what made us poorer is the American influence of international trade.
basically why NZers have a short fuse with america.
its still on going today where we have had to make a free trade deal with the likes of China.
to put it bluntly, why the #@% would we want Nato (american war ships) in our ports here today?
we just want a decent free trade deal.
seems our old school past politics (our soldiers dying for american causes means absolute crap to american politicians) and definitely not worth a free trade deal.
but very political nuclear missile ships in our ports, yes for sure..
its no different to Ukraine,,, they just want to cut the old school crap and be given a fear deal.
end of the day they still wouldnt want your military ships there, and why should they?
"i was over there the time when so called Nato(american frigate) visited Odessa.
they (america) had just finished their dirty business down in Georgia."
Was it not Russia who invaded Georgia? Without NATO, Georgia would have become Russian or close to it, wouldn't it? That is the role of NATO - to curb Russian military expansion. Why wouldn't Ukraine want military ships there? To not be like Georgia to be invaded.
NATO was my spin on it. The girl I was talking to does not even know what NATO is. It is weird that the propaganda was there where I bought the souvenirs to take back to the US.
I was just informed by my source that the Ukrainians are not afraid of their government. I can't help but notice that their vk statuses lack this news. A whole bunch is written on a group. A whole bunch. In five minutes, there were 106 posts.
I did read that it is illegal to pitch tents in Independence Square.
Kiwi, the top searches in Google are the most popular. I tried to look up any trade US trade sanctions against New Zealand and could not find any. That doesn't mean it does not exist. I did see that NZ's becoming a nuclear missile free zone was back in the Reagan era. That suspended the ANZUS or the defense pact between NZ and the US. I also saw that NZ also does not hesitate in imposing their own trade sanctions against other countries.
Could it be that because the US can no longer protect its citizens in NZ that there is less trade and not none? Could it be that you cannot be a preferred trade partner because of this?
I support nuclear missiles pointed at Russia as long as they have their pointed at Europe and the US. The US said that our missiles are only to destroy theirs if launched. I don't know if I believe that. Nevertheless, Russia would not remove theirs, so our missiles were built and remains.
I understand your distaste for American bullying. The opportunities that came to my country, when it became the world's sole great power -- an event perhaps not to be repeated in a thousand years -- were squandered by a terrible lack of wisdom and understanding. If it were up to me, my country wouldn't try to shove military access down the throats of America's old friends -- or continue the Pentagon's stupid policy of refusing to disclose whether US warships in foreign ports are carrying nuclear weapons. [As usual, it's a damned lie that this secrecy is needed for "security" reasons: it's to avoid the embarrassment that if they answered the question, it would so often be "yes."]
About the present situation in Ukraine, I think you're getting your apples and kiwifruit mixed together: Ukraine is facing the decision to join the European Union, not NATO. These are quite separate matters, and Ukraine can join the economic treaty without military obligations.
It's more than 5 years since I've heard anything about Ukraine and NATO. Ukraine's military forces are small, out of date, and generally in shambles. Specifically, they are far far below the minimum requirements, in both capacity and standardization of equipment, required for NATO membership. Even if Ukraine really wanted to join NATO -- and NATO still wanted Ukraine -- in order to become a NATO member, Ukraine would have to expand and upgrade its military, at a cost of many billions of dollars per year over a long stretch of years. Ukraine doesn't have the money for many basic necessities: in Ukraine's present economic condition, qualifying for NATO membership is out of the question.
Sadly, whether Ukraine will join the EU apparently hangs today on a single question: is Ukraine willing to make a small token move away from its nauseating corruption, by releasing a single political prisoner? Ukraine's present strongman, who got onto the national stage as one of Putin's stooges, may trash the whole EU deal because continuing his career as a gangster is more important than the future of his country.
I wish we would stay out of other countries troubles too,,, but not for the same reasons I’m sure. Most countries don’t deserve our help, and if they want to keep killing each other, we should just provide them sufficient ammunition to complete their goal. (just slightly sarcastic)
If we were to go back to the beginning of the US being a super power,,, and change history by not getting involved,,, the world would be a much different place. Many of us would be sprechen(z) Deutsch,, which would be my second choice anyway.
We wouldn’t be dating,,,, trying to date women from the FSU,,, it would be SFU or PSU as in Still or Present Soviet Union.
While in Canada during the Gulf Wars, I heard people say: “Yankee go home“,,, several times! They were mostly upset about the price of fuel, blaming the war for the high price of their fuel. However the price of everything has always been higher in Canada,,,, before during and after the wars.
What many people fail to realize, is without the American presence around the world, western interests would fall into eastern hands. Middle eastern oil might be controlled by Russia, Canada’s oil and gas above the artic circle ( which Russia is trying to claim already) would be lost if their neighbor tuned it’s back on them. Canada has just recently started to build a few ships for a navy.
American Naval ships will be wherever commercial ships travel. It was within the last year that we rescued an Iranian ship from pirates. Perhaps that had a little influence on their last election?? As I was writing this tonight,,, news about a nuclear agreement was on TV.
I remember the story about an American ship in Odessa,,, as I recall,,, it received a warm welcome?? I don’t remember any protests in Odessa,,,, just a protest in Kiev where women went topless while doing their laundry in the streets. Yeah, that’s why I remember it!
I should hope people don’t forget a time when many American ships came into Odessa and some ports in Russia.
Just incase,,, here are some good links that everyone would be wise to view!!
The Great Famine
"The little-known story of the American effort to relieve starvation in the new Soviet Russia in 1921, The Great Famine is a documentary about the worst natural disaster in Europe since the Black Plague in the Middle Ages. Five million Soviet citizens died. Half a world away, Americans responded with a massive two-year relief campaign, championed by Herbert Hoover, director of the American Relief Administration."
thanks Durak interesting.
actually i wasn't getting at Ukraine joining NATO, just commenting on RB's point about wanting to be closer to the west and that really involves america.,
its the convenience of things when one wants a decent trade deal of some sort or to be closer in what ever respect.
the other (military rubbish) seems to follow in one way or the other is all i was getting at, even if its NATO or what ever,, its just expected.
but very interesting,,, i did learn something..
but i have you know we have a kiwi fruit virus here in NZ, its devastating all the new gold fleshed kiwifruit(the new verity) it will become extincted from what i gather.
another govt stuff up it seems with border control allowing plant material in to some orchard farmer dude.
but look out if you forget about a orange in your luggage at the airport.
you will be fined a 100% more then the million or billion dollar outbreak stuff up.
ohhhh to sit on that seat of power..
dont get me wrong lonely, america has done a lot of good, yes that famine thing is only a small part in how you guys have played, on one side america has always pulled above their weight in many scenarios.
and it wasnt long ago so many here locally in need from massive floodings were pn the giving line by many a American, not govt,, it was quite sobering..
just politically america do forget their friends, for political reasons of cause.
and to think america was feeding russia to some extant in the cold war ends,,,, oddity's of life.
i wonder how that compared to the famine relief effort of 1921..
that frigate visit was some of the worst riots i have ever seen,,, a lot of blood.
people just didnt want that ship there, not a military ship put it that way,, specially when the Georgian thing went ape.
watching it at the time(russian TV of cause) i questioned how their own could subdue with such enthusiasm amazed me, it was very ugly indeed.
personally i have never seen any animosity against america in Ukraine in any other way.
i also never saw any western satellite TV at the time to see what was relaid there,,, always keen to see the angles.
"that frigate visit was some of the worst riots i have ever seen,,, a lot of blood.
people just didnt want that ship there, not a military ship put it that way,, specially when the Georgian thing went ape.
watching it at the time(russian TV of cause) i questioned how their own could subdue with such enthusiasm amazed me, it was very ugly indeed."
Bloody? That I found hard to believe. It was the last days of President Bush's presidency. If it was bloody, surely the American liberal press would have been all over it. They have a way of sensationalizing things. If this was Russian TV, is it possible they sensationalized and even exaggerated things?
KIEV, Ukraine -- Hundreds of angry Ukrainians have clashed with riot police outside the government building as protests continue in Kiev over the government's abrupt decision to pause integration with the West and tilt toward Moscow.
The scuffle Monday morning follows a large protest in the heart of Kiev Sunday, the biggest since the 2004 Orange Revolution. Tens of thousands of people turned up to protest President Viktor Yanukovych's decision to snub a potentially historic deal with the EU and focus on ties with Moscow, after immense pressure from Russia. Protests continued overnight, with demonstrators camping out in tents on a central square.
On Monday, hundreds clashed with riot police, throwing traffic cones and other objects at officers wearing gas masks and armed with rubber batons.
"This powerful photo of a student protestor and a police officer crying has gone viral in Bulgaria. Here is what Buzz Feed had to say about it:
Imgur user plamentanev posted this image from Bulgaria on Wednesday. He described the scene:
“This photo really moved me so much that I decided to try and raise awarenes to what is going on in my country. This girl was crying and begging the policeman not to hit her or any of her friends. Then the policeman started crying as well and he said to her: “You just hold on girl.”
This photo is from a protest happening in Bulgaria right now. Students are protesting Bulgaria’s socialist government and poverty, even chaining themselves to the doors of Sofia University. They are also clashing with the police outside of parliament.
Not long after this photo was taken, it went viral on Bulgarian Facebook, and has been shared literally thousands of times."
I don't believe this is a protest against socialism. It is for a better way of life. Many don't understand that socialism is the cause. It is more apparent in places like Bulgaria where socialism is strong. In the US, many people do not understand that President Obama's ways are socialism, which is why he was voted in. He promised things will be better.
The protests in Ukraine are neither for or against socialism.
By its definition, socialism scarcely exists in any part of Europe today, eastern or western.
In American politics these days, people incorrectly use "socialism" to mean a welfare state. On average, the EU countries are as much welfare states as are Russia or Ukraine; probably significantly more so. So Ukraine's protesters aren't complaining about socialism even the incorrect American usage.
The Ukrainian protests are against Russian dominance.
Russia stopped being a socialist country more than 20 years ago. It is now an oligarchy in which the dominant economic activity is mineral resource extraction, with the lion's share of wealth flowing to a very small group that also exercises political power. It is comparable to a number of dictatorships in 20th century South America.