"Half of Ukraine's population dominating the south-east."
Half? Only half? I thought it was 97%? One of them is made up. Which?
Please tell the region or city, not a direction. But it doesn't matter.
The protesters wanted to integrate into the EU in favor of the Eurasian Commons. President Yanukovich could not contain them. The corruption of Yanukovich is well documented. The protesters no longer trusted him to sign the Russian deal. It became worse when he had the peaceful protesters arrested and the Parliament decided to outlaw the protests. It became a protest of the rights of free speech. It grew stronger until he had the protesters shot.
You are turning this into a racial war between Russians and Ukrainians. From what I hear from friends and in this forum, the Russians in Ukraine have more rights than the Ukrainians in Russia. Russians, they say, do not respect Ukrainians. After reading your posts, I can see one good example.
You write of a single incident in Kharkov. The internet, images and videos are of the Kiev unrest. Very little if at all were in Crimea. The social media and the news are also available to them. Yet, because of the unrest was in Kiev and this incident in Kharkov, it was then time to invade Crimea. Is that what you are trying to tell us?
"You hold out your hand to me, and I perceive only a finger of the claw of Mordor. Cruel and cold! Even if your war on me was just as it was not, for were you ten times as wise you would have no right to rule me and mine for your own profit as you desired..."
When I read the words of "insanity," I perceive a finger of the Kremlin's claw.
When I was in Zaporozhye, the lady's kid was studying the Ukrainian language. They both spoke Russian. They both told me Ukrainian must be studied because the language is dying. Now, laws to protect the language are called "hysterical". However unfair you think the laws are, there is a much bigger country to speak the Russian language.
The Ukrainians are in fear of losing their country. What would you have them do with Russian troops built up along the eastern border? Where was the instability before the Russian interference? Taking the troops out is a step towards stability.
<<stop,,,, I know a few words of Russian,,,, am I in danger????>>
I don't like this kind of red herring, and frankly it is this kind of stuff when one side refuses to hear the other makes frustration boil over and violence erupt. Now your sarcasm aside - no of course you are not in danger speaking Russian. In fact, go to Lvov and declare Bandera a national hero of Ukraine in the most perfect Russian language and you'll probably and they'll carry you on their hands. Try that in Donetsk, and will unlikely come out of there whole.
Case in point. This is Donetsk last month when Kiev junta appointed billionair-oligarch governor decided to bring Maidan to Donetsk. He bussed in Maidan, and here is what the locals did Maidan in Donetsk:
(some things being yelled there - the Donetsk crowd is arguing with police yelling stuff like -- "why are you defending them? they are the ones who beat you". there is a lot of cursing of course.
The invasion of Crimea and the laws enacted in Russia to allow invasion for Russian speaking countries only give validity to Ukraine's requirement that all official business be conducted in the Ukrainian language. The fact is that everyone speaks Russian in the FSU. It is to create a defined culture, cohesiveness and national indentity that the language law was enacted. What's next the queen of England will send troops the USA?
"It is to create a defined culture, cohesiveness and national indentity that the language law was enacted."
You are totally right of course, they are trying to create a defined culture -- but they don't have enough strength and power to do so, because Russian's are not a diaspora in Ukraine. Ukraine really is part of the Russian world, the Rus - the culture has formulated over several centuries -- they are trying to eradicate it in a span of 23 years - but again, that can't really have a lot of success because "Russians" (whether they call themselves Russians directly or are of Russian cultural mentality) are at least half the country.
Ukraine is made up of many cultures and ethnicities. The language is a means of communication. Russia has been a bully to this region for centuries. The famines of the 1930's are an example of Moscow's theft of resources and bounty. Sitting fat and starving the proletariat with a distribution system like the hub of a wheel. That is what this is truly about. While the west sat on their thumbs and did nothing to improve the economy of the FSU, to go back in time is a mistake for all parties. Because of that distribution system only Muscovites have any chance of prosperity The last 4 years have been a systematic dismantling of Ukraine's self reliance and future prosperity. Yanukovich is no different than the Shah of Iran, Marcos in the Philippines or the countless dictators of the Banana Republics of the Americas. He ran with the money and is no patriot. He is in fact a traitor and a thief to every Ukrainian. Regardless of what the future brings, Ukraine and Russia will be culturally and economically bound, but under the Russian flag or without trade with Europe and the world, it will be squeezed like a bug. I would not place my hopes in my children and their children to be like the Cubans, with a wealthy economy only 90 miles away and a willingness to open trade ,,, save for the despotic Castro brothers and a Soviet blunder.
stoptheinsanity, if the Russian military is not on the Ukrainian border and there is absolutely no Russian interference in Ukrainian affairs, financial, the media or otherwise, I would agree with you: Have Eastern Ukraine vote as Crimea did. Otherwise,
This would be it. Admittedly though I have had friendly contacts and aquintances with families from Nikolaev, Mariupol, and Crimea. SO I will admit that I am very much sympathetic to their views and interests.
"stoptheinsanity, if the Russian military is not on the Ukrainian border and there is absolutely no Russian interference in Ukrainian affairs, financial, the media or otherwise,"
Are you suggesting that Russia stands idly by while the US State Department spends billions of dollars on Ukraine's "democratic" ax wielding coctail tossing "peaceful demonstrators". For Russia not to "interfere" would be sheer madness and a blatant disregard for her own geostrategic, security, and economic interests while hostile forces are creeping into their own back yard and stomping all over a kindred people. I asked a question whether or not the US and EU was interfering in Ukraine -- I don't believe I got an answer.
"The famines of the 1930's are an example of Moscow's theft of resources and bounty. Sitting fat and starving the proletariat with a distribution system like the hub of a wheel. "
You know "Latvian riflemen" played a significant part in securing the Bolshevik power and all these former bolsheviks whether they are Poles, Latvians, Georgians, Jews, and Ukrainians want to throw all their venom at "Russians" for Bolshevik crimes -- all the while ethnic Russians would find themselves in the minority in this group.
Incidentally, no one is arguing about the corrupt nature of Yanukovich. Yet on Feb. 21st he signed away his powers and basically became a political corpse. Yet armed "right sector" thugs still storm the government. So west Ukraine radicals and neo-liberal thieves come to power in Kiev -- why should the south-east quietly swallow this? And have as the next thing, all the industrial facilities closed down in the east, a whole bunch of unemployed people seeking refuge in Russia, Russia's own industry suffers as a result of a loss of partners in south-east Ukraine -- oh and the cherry on top -- park NATO missiles in Kharkov.
Quite frankly it was known that Yanuk was corrupt for some time. What was the trigger for maidan? His refusal to sign the EU association agreement? Now who here thinks they understand the implications of EU association for Ukraine and Customs Union on the other hand?
The "harvesting" of Ukraine by the IMF has just begun -- but you know, at the least the junta in Kiev has "freedom" -- although it is likely to be a very short lived one as their authority is unrecognized in neither east nor west. In Kiev right sector stormed the sumpreme court building and humiliated the judges while in the east police did not do a whole lot to resist a mob of people who stormed government buildings in Kharkov, Lugansk, and Donetsk. Well we all get to watch a continuation.
By the way, any self-respecting nation would have troops on the borders with Ukraine at a high level of alert given the situation in the country. While western media focuses on some 40K Russian troops -- the Poles on the other side of Ukraine have also been readying their forces.
In Ukraine itself, its two halves have gotten to a point where they don't want to speak or listen to one another.
"Are you suggesting that Russia stands idly by while the US State Department spends billions of dollars on Ukraine's "democratic" ax wielding coctail tossing "peaceful demonstrators". For Russia not to "interfere" would be sheer madness and a blatant disregard for her own geostrategic, security, and economic interests while hostile forces are creeping into their own back yard and stomping all over a kindred people. I asked a question whether or not the US and EU was interfering in Ukraine -- I don't believe I got an answer."
All the protesters wanted was Ukraine to sign the EU. It was peaceful for two months until Russia spent spent billions to influence that.
In spite of Russian money, the protesters wanted EU. The Russians have Yanukovych. The Russians pledged $15 Billion. European influence is new to me. I just looked it up. I found one article. All it is, is a Russian accusation.
US influencing the vote? Our president expresses less and less influence in foreign affairs. That's what got us in trouble in Syria. We got out of Iraq and we are getting out of Afghanistan. The "billions" you say is one billion, and that had trouble getting out of congress. It was only considered after the Crimean invasion.
Yes. I am suggesting Russia stand idly by and let Ukraine be. European and US influence has been economic. Russia tried economic incentives. It didn't work. Now, it is retorting to violence. The violence you speak of is created by Russia to justify an invasion.
Russia's counterpart to Josef Goebbels has struck again! This from Reuters:
"Russia's Foreign Ministry accused NATO on Thursday of using the crisis in Ukraine to boost its appeal to members and justify its existence by rallying them against an imaginary threat."
NATO members are more focused today on the importance of the alliance, because they have just witnessed the heavily armed invasion, occupation and annexation of territory from a neighboring state -- a state that posed absolutely no threat to any other state, especially the one that just raped and mutilated it.
It is a Russian Big Lie -- smash a man on the head with a club, and then fly into a rage because the other people in the room are picking up their own weapons.
RUSSIA'S PROPAGANDA MACHINE IN ACTION: HOW ONE MAN BECAME 3 DIFFERENT PEOPLE!
Personally, I welcome the participation of "insanity" in this thread, because his/her postings are fine examples of both (A) how people trustingly swallow Russian lies, and (B) the ethical bankruptcy of Russia's "justifications."
insanity tells us of "friendly contacts and aquintances (sic)" in areas of Ukraine where many speak Russian. I don't know where insanity gets his/her "facts", but the contacts and acquaintances almost certainly get theirs from Russian-language TV, which comes from the Russian Federation and is under Kremlin control.
If you want to understand what's on these Russian TV broadcasts, read this Forbes article:
Three different Kremlin-controlled TV outlets showed "news" reports with footage of one Andrei Petkov (the same actor with the same nose bandage in all three), interviewed supposedly in his hospital bed in Mykolaiv (Nikolaev), where he is supposedly being treated for wounds inflicted by violent Ukrainian nationalists/extremists/fascists/Nazis. So far, just normal everyday Kremlin lies.
But in his three interviews, the things he says about himself are completely (and irreconcilably) different.
FOR THE KREMLIN, AND ITS SHAMELESS MOUTHPIECES, SUCH BALD-FACE LYING IS NOT UNUSUAL.
Another grotesque example came a few weeks ago, when Russia's army was invading Crimea. Russian TV reported that 650,000 ethnic Russians and/or Russian-speakers had come to Russia from Ukraine, fleeing in terror from the violent Ukrainian nationalists/extremists/fascists/Nazis. (By the way, this enormous exodus would have had to happen within a few days. And anyone who pays attention to refugees around the world knows that if such a thing had actually happened, the impacts in Russia would be dramatic.) Russia TV accompanied this story with footage of traffic queued up at a border crossing ... but some alert viewers recognized it as a crossing into POLAND (where Ukrainians and other FSU citizens generally can't enter without a visa obtained in advance.)
It was a complete absolute 100% bullshit fabrication, as is the majority of Russia's press coverage of Ukraine.
That "insanity" eats this crap, and pronounces it tasty, is pathetic. That millions of Russian-speakers in Ukraine have done the same, is tragic.
ďThat "insanity" eats this crap, and pronounces it tasty, is pathetic.ď
Hmmmm,,,, tasty! Lol A good laugh when I needed one,,, thanks durak!
ďThat millions of Russian-speakers in Ukraine have done the same, is tragic.Ē
Sad but true!
Maybe a few people have noticed I havenít been here too much lately?? Mostly because Iíve been awful busy,,,, but also because Iíve grown sick of it. A people that wonít help themselves,,,, so how can we help them?
When Crimea had their vote,,,,, the masses were out waving their Russian flags chanting: Ro see yah!! Whether they really wanted Russia or not,, they came out to vote out of fear! The Tatars had the right plan,,,, Donít vote!!! The right thing to do was also the easiest,,,, Nothing!! The city streets in Crimea should have looked like a ghost town,,,, how could the Russian media spin that??
I understand,, that Putler and his government are responsible for most of the troubles in Ukraine,,, and most Russians donít even like or agree with him,,,,, yet so many will follow him?!! Why?!
Russia,,,, and the smaller countries in their destructive shadow, have been living in a backwards dark world, where only corruption and despair thrive. Any country that wants to distance themselves, and have a better future must automatically be destroyed.
This hasnít just been happening for years, or even decades,,, but for many generations and centuries!
Iíve sometimes wondered if it could be a form of ďStockholmís SyndromeĒ that makes Slavic people afraid of liberty and freedom? Do they really feel threatened by the West, and think an invasion by America is imminent?? The West wants countries to command their own destinies,,,, while Putler and his government wants to suck the life out of the people. Ro see yah,,,, Ro see yah!!!!!!