WIFESEEKER I think you're wrong on that. A genuine woman will want to go on cam for the very same reason. She will want to check the guy out to see that he matches his photos so not to waste her time.
Your logic "genuine women will not put themselves in front of a camera to be examined" but what about meeting in person? Isn't that the same thing? Aren't you examining her in person? And what's wrong with examining the person that presumably you'll be spending the rest of your life with?
Video is key IMHO. I want to see the girl and I want her to see me. Not agreeing to show herself on video is not by itself an indication that she's not genuine, but is a red flag in my mind. Those who refuse it claim to only have computer at work ... I don't buy it. On the other hand, they may feel they'll look ugly in front of a cheap camera. Video calling has worked for many people.
I think 9 out of 10 girls are not genuine and I don't mean on this site, other sites, as well. That's why when I find one that is genuine and beautiful and has the right frame of mind for me, I stick with her. I can never be 100% certain, but I won't pass what could potentially be the opportunity of a lifetime questioning intentions and trying to constantly find flaws and faults.
TomZ: this is exactly what she wanted, that is, to see if I match my pictures. She said there are men who put pictures from a long time ago and even other people's pictures. She actually told me "how do you know I exist?" (meaning herself). There's nothing wrong wanting a good-looking man. We want them to look good, don't we? She's a lot more open to me after the video call. By the way, a pretty girl will look at least decent on video.
What I find intriguing is that she doesn't care about wealth or lifestyle. She's figured what she should and doesn't ask any questions. All the conversation is about learning about each other and about sharing. It's extremely satisfying to me. I couldn't have been happier having gotten involved in this wife seeking venture and did not expect it. I have my fingers crossed and hope she's the one.
YEs 4 geo. I feel that I can send a form letter of introduction. When you get a form letter back that is unacceptable, just as if a woman wrote you first and you responded with a form letter. Lets face it... If you write first you can write about anything you wish. You have no obligation to answer questions as there are none to answer. After the first contact however it is unacceptable on either side to respond with a form letter. Actually right in my first letter I said "Please do not respond with a form letter, that is impolite and something I would never do." This is the truth because I included the word RESPOND. My form letter was about 2 pages that went into great detail about my life. Half did not respond and 10 wrote back form letters. Getting form letters in response I feel increases the odds they are scammers too. This whole thing is a numbers game. Meet 100 women and surely there's more than one you can enjoy a great life with.
Please do not play the politician or tabloid journalist with me:
add SOME to your quote "genuine women will not put themselves in front of a camera to be examined" of what I said.
There is another aspect to this: A lady who hardly speaks English or none at all, will struggle to write her letter in English with an online translator or dicitonary or even paying for it. She feels tempted to economise on time, effort and cost and will copy the letter to various men. A girl who speaks fluent English will find it easier to just type and press send to each man she talk to.
There is a direct correlation between the standard letters and level of english in the ladies, I believe. I have recently received 3 copies of the same letter, in the past 2 weeks by a girls who wrote in her profile that she speaks no English at all. She has probably forgotten what she wrote in the first place.
Having just returned from seeing a girl in Crimea, I realised what the girl told me about not bothering to talk on video. It was the interaction on doing things together that mattered to her, mostly, but to me too. A 5 day visit was more important than 7 months of correspondence (but the correspondence was still needed) or video chat. We even went to the supermarket together, we dicussed what to buy and I argued about how much she was buying. Pretty much the way it is in married life.
Wow! so when you go to see a young and beautiful woman, do you also get her to pay for the bills (for buying things in a supermarket for a barbecue and, yes, some kitchen items like knives) or at least half of them!? Please tell me where I can do that.
No! we are not engaged, we are taking this at a 'normal' pace. She said she wanted it this way from the beginning. In fact we quarrelled because I complained about paying bills and a pesky interpreter who kept clinging to us. I told the interpreter off for not giving me proper invoices on company headed paper. My girl told me that was the way things were done over there, which I know. Many people work 'unofficially' taking cash and avoiding giving invoices so as not to pay taxes or the mafia. My complaint to my girl was that we both should have had a go at the interpreter, as a couple, instead of me doing the dirty work.
Of course my bills were nothing like what Wyatt paid but still, I have had to tell my girl that things are not automatically cheap for us over there. We are now exchanging very serious letters to come to a compromise. We both say that it will be a shame to damage an 8 month relationship with this. After all, we had a great time while I was there and she spent an average of 8 hours every day with me. While I was there I made a contact who offered me to make checks on my girl and the interpreting agency. I still have not decided whether to use him.
No problems as a Western tourist there.
My advice: don't rush it. Also, I told my girl that I would not pay for her English lessons unless we are engaged and it is certain she will come to me. I find it difficult to give money for English lessons, while we are courting, or someone else could benefit from it if it does not lead to marriage. This could be another point of contention between us. But that is me, you need to decide for yourself.
Be prepared: if you encounter a similar situation to that of Wyatt's, you have a scammer and run away on the first day. I find it completely absurd when they say: "Well I had already paid for the trip so why not continue to pay while getting ripped off". I am sure that many Western men are in business and they work by the 'throwing good money after bad' rule but they cannot seem to apply it to their private lives.
If you encounter a situation like mine, it is not in black and white. You need to investigate, talk to her and see what happens. If you put your foot down on something that she wants, which is expensive, she should understand. If she gives you any indication that 'you are not a gentleman' or say that 'an Arab man would pay three times that', careful. In fact, even if you do not find antyhing too expensive for you, try saying no to one thing just to see how she reacts. I told my girl that I did not want to pay the interpreter meals again, so if she wanted the interpreter with us all the time it would have to be done differently. So I agreed that, if we were buying things for a barbecue, it would not cost a lot more to cater for three than for two. Compromise there that is a test for married life.
Think about it in married life. In my latest letter I asked her: If when we are married you say you want a holiday in France and I say "We are a bit short of money, let us leave it for when we have more money so as not to run into financial trouble" are you going to resent it or think: "My husband knows what he is talking about, let us leave the holiday for a while". I am waiting for the answer.
After I complained about the charges of the interpreter the first day, my girl got worried and got me to travel by tram (which she never uses there as they are for poor people) to prevent me from paying for taxis, which are cheap anyway. She also managed to get rid of the interpreter for a whole day so as not to upset me (but then she was upset as she wanted to frequently talk to me). So you need to test her, subtly. See my Goodfellas test thread.
WS - you do make some good points. The bottom line is don't offer financial support until she is your wife (or at least your fiancé). One case I know of is where the scammer had 15 or more guys on the line. All of them thought she was their "fiancé". All of them offering her financial support. She did quite well with this scam and this type of scam is more prevalent than most of us are aware of.
Wifeseeker: Your advice is wise and I thank you! My only issue with her so far is that everything seems perfect and I mean not in a general way of speaking writing about sunsets and birds flying in the sky and this sort of thing. I mean speaking from the heart and sharing even our own weaknesses and lessons from previous relationships. It is very hard to believe because it hasn't happened to me before. Maybe we're such a good fit, time will show. I'm skeptical by nature so I try not to get carried away just yet. In terms of asking for things, she asked me to visit her and more recently asked me whether I will visit only her in my trip. I told her I will only go to her and am sticking with what I told her. In fact, I am only communicating with her and turned down every other girl with whom I had communication previously. The agencies have figured me by now and they stopped sending me too many letters anyway:) She will travel on train for many hours to reach our destination. I get the sense that she wants me to take the initiative in most matters. She said, she has bought dictionaries and tries to learn English. She asked me to learn some Russian phrases for our meeting. As I said, her relative will translate for us but won't be with us all the time due to work (not an interpreter just a fluent English speaker). Point well taken about the testing her subtly comment.
Unless I am so way off about her, she does not seem superficial at all. I like her very much both her external beauty and as a person. I probably made a few too many comments about her beauty, so she told me that she thinks she's only an ordinary girl, that she believes beauty does not last and that she is looking for someone with whom she will grow old. I mean you can't make these things up:) Anyway, time will show.
Sounds good to me but I will say prepare yourself for disappointment which I hope will not happen.
But careful about suspicion. My girl told me she was really pissed off when I acted like I suspected her. She told me she could not go on much longer being under constant suspicion.
I wonder about you not going to see her in her home town. This is the thing to do the first time as you do not pay for her hotel, transport, etc. And you get to meet one or two of her people plus she will know where it is good to go. My girl organised outings every day in places she knew.
About going to see only her, My girl was honest (I hope) and told me who had already gone to see her. She told me two men, one of them asked for sex (big mistake with her). He did not read her profile carefully. She warned that she would not be taken for granted. And the other one went to see a number of ladies. She obviously felt she was only one of many in a catalogue and was pissed off.
I impressed my girl and her sister when I said a few things in Russian.
You must take presents! That is the thing to do there. But not expensive. I bought her a number of little things, she realised there was nothing expensive but really liked them. If you are American, take very American things, but not T shirts saying Broncos or whatever they are called.
Good sign she is travelling by train and not flying. Will she travel with her relative?
Taking presents you will avoid the problem of ending up in a department store or boutique there and spending on an expensive dress or mobile phone. These things are a no-no on the first meeting even if you are Donald Trump! (are you?)
Get an interpreter if you are not getting a lot of time with her friend or being together will get tense, but you may have similar problems to mine as that is the way they do things over there.
"You must take presents!" No you don't. I don't present any gifts until I am well into the relationship and only present them on special occasions such as her birthday (after I've verified this in her passport of course). Otherwise you are just buying her to be with you.
"Taking presents you will avoid the problem of ending up in a department store" No it won't. Any girl who asks me to take her shopping it's see you later for me. That is unless she's provided me with what I need.
That type of mentality sets up a precedent that all foreigners give presents. Then they just want to be with you for the presents.
About sex. This is a delicate subject but I'll go for it anyway. When you're buying a car you want to test drive it first before making a commitment to it. The same thing is true with the person presumably you'll spend the rest of your life with. If she gives it too soon then that can be an indicator that she's a slut or easy with everyone (for some this is not a problem). If she promises sex only after marriage but wants financial support NOW - this is a real problem for me. To me she's got to give something if she wants something.
This is one of the reasons I choose women that are working and have their own money so that they are not financially dependant upon me. Yes, even in Ukraine.
You have little knowledge of their culture then. It is not about a foreign man buying a local woman. Visitors ALWAYS take presents over there. And it is little to do with the money. You are already spending good money going to see the girl and paying for her transport to see you. Spending another £30 on presents is nothing.
Department stores: you also need to understand that, like in countries such as the USA, people in Ukraine and Russia go to department stores as an outing for entertainment. I have been taken to the 'malls' in the USA, Mexico and Russia as if it was an enjoyable day out.
When you go and buy low cost presents that represent your country, you are showing the lady that you took the trouble and time to go and find things that she may like, not that you sent your secretary to the shop to buy 'something' expensive like a perfume for her.
I buy things from the UK I know they like: Yorkshire tea, fancy jams, things with the Union Jack (I got her a pair of cool earrings with little stones forming the Union Jack), things in the shape of London buses and phone boxes. I even made an item of pottery with our names on a heart (how romantic); no chance of finding something like this in a shop. She loved them.
Not turning up with presents is regarded as being plain rude. And if the girl takes you to meet her family, you have to take presents for them too. Russians and Ukrainians who come to visit here bring things that represent their country: caviar, matrioshkas, scarves with traditional design, their sweets and biscuits, etc.
Clarify what you mean when you say that you buy things for a lady in a department store once she has provided you what you need, you mean sex?
Meeting a lady is like test driving a car, good grief!
Don't give him advice on sex, please.
Sex with these ladies is exactly the same as with any other woman, in the West, who does not have her religion determining her sex life (like among some Muslim groups). She just decides when she wants it, end of story. What woman promises sex after marriage these days?
WS - yeah I know nothing of the culture. I've only been travelling to Eastern Europe for 20 yrs now. But as you say I know nothing of the culture.
What I do know is that it's better to give no gifts at all than giving cheap gifts. Giving cheap gifts gives a bad impression of you.
As I said gifts are appropriate later in the relationship, as the relationship develops. That way you can understand the girl is not using you for the gifts.
Many a girl I have refused to take on a shopping spree the first date but then again they were not worth it because they would have been audios amigo after they had acquired their purchases.
My rule of thumb is she puts out then I put out. She gives me what I need. I give her what she needs. Fortunately now I have a gf in Ukraine with her own job and money. She won't even let me pay for her in the café. And when I do give her a gift, and I do, she is embarrassed. I am quite fortunate to have found her in the sea of pro-daters especially in Ukraine.