What I will say does not reflect upon fiance.com, which I do believe is a great site. After all, they provide a search service, they're not an agency, or scam detector.
It doesn't take long to realize that many attractive girls are scammers whether agency girls or independent. Not all, but many.
The agency "girls" won't give a personal email and it is obvious that it's not the girl in the picture who writes the letters. Not all of them, but in rough estimate 95%.
The independents will tell you that they have access to email at work and they must communicate via a private email. After two or three emails, the intentions become evident. They keep sending pictures that increasingly become more revealing. They'll hint they would like to meet you in a different country for fun. Once you tell them you're interested in relationship, they'll change the tune and hint that they don't speak English and hope you can help them.
In any event, not all is a waste of my time. I'm in communication with a beautiful girl that seems real and will likely focus on this one girl alone going forward.
My take so far is that you should ask agency girls for personal email immediately. They give it you, then proceed further. They don't, you bail.
With independents, if they want to go to personal email after one or two letters, they're likely going to ask for money at some point or they're hookers or they want to be sponsored or worse.
I have already said what I wanted to say about agancy girls. Also, focusing on one girl only, when you have been dealing with her only for a short while, is very likely to lead to disappointment for you.
Without meaning to throw a bucket full of water on you, an attractive girl (especially an agency girl) like the one you are describing will be talking to several men in the early stages. She will not eliminate the other men until she has met the one in person and has dealt with him long enough to be sure he is the one she wants.
And she will assume that you are talking to other girls all the way to you being near to proposing marriage.
Even with me talking to 'my' girl for 8 months I know she is still talking to other men.
"Ukrainian brides on the Internet are emptying the pockets of foreigners
April 10, 2014, 10:15 [an online]
Украински 1077; невесты по интернету опустошают карманы иностранцев
Several major online agencies for "selling" brides to foreigners found in Ukraine by Western journalists. Companies promise customers a happy personal life, but in reality the leave with empty pockets.
The popularity of Ukrainian agencies network was life for foreigners is growing, because foreigners pay a round sum for brides to acquire without guessing the large number of defrauded customers,
Aliens are sent to tourist "romantic tours ' to Ukraine hoping to find second half, MP3.com 03 writes with reference to a number of sources of the Western press. So The Guardian correspondent Shaun Walker estimated that now in Odessa is going to even more men from the West than last year. The correspondent for a revision to a similar tour in 2013. Trip organized a company specializing in such services.
He writes that in the tourist group was 29 men, mostly Americans. Most of them "were not so nice people, but they all have experienced loneliness. Some Western women do not even look, others are trying to recover after divorce or the death of his wife. To visit each of them spent several thousand dollars on the play communicating with online. In place of one of the brides did not respond to calls, others requested time for reflection and demanded the continuation of costly platoničeskih visits ".
"None of the men with whom I am close I obŝal in the tour, has not entered into a long-term relationship. And most seem to be victims of various sophisticated fraud fell, "said Walker.
However, suffer not only foreign suitors, but Ukrainian brides who have a way to earn a living. Although there are women who are genuinely looking for a young and interesting man and want to go abroad, but for the sake of money sit in a chat with the elderly."
Thanks for the link, but let me say I'm very familiar with Ukraine. I was in FSU a lot in the late 90's and early '00's for reasons other than finding a bride. I admired the women back then but I was married at the time. Never been with a Ukr woman.
These guys on the tours are gullible, but let me say back in the day, the girls would travel for hours on a train to get to a social and fight at the door to get in the club. They'd do it for the chance to meet a foreigner. Foreign man was a celebrity. Now, of course, things have changed from what I see. Full disclosure, never been on a tour, just know this from having told by people I know.
Like 4re_geo I have been to Ukraine several times too. Unfortunately, I ran into an agency girl on my last trip that basically wrecked my whole trip.
Her name was Viktoria Hoda and she likes in Kirovograd. I met her through Russian Women Personals and they removed her profile. Recently, I saw her on Anastasia.com and I requested they remove her profile. They are turning a blind eye. Because she has not scammed anyone through their website - yet. You can see her at http://www.anastasiadate.com/Pages/Lady/Profile/ProfilePreview.aspx?ladyID=11287 62 Her profile number is 1128762, I had been corresponding with this girl via email through the agency, telephone not through the agency and on video chat through Russian Women Personals. It was not until a week or two prior to leaving for Ukraine that I started to see some red flags. Unfortunately, I still met her (in Kiev). Because I had already purchased the airline tickets, made hotel reservations, etc...
The very first evening, Viktoria and her translator (from the agency in Kirovograd) the girls tricked me into eating at one of the most expensive restaurants in Kiev. I made reservations at a very nice restaurant. The girls said they were starving and asked to eat in the restaurant in the Opera Hotel (Where we were staying) and I told them I had a taxi waiting and reservation at a restaurant close by. They really wanted to eat at the hotel and I told them several times that I did not want to eat there. Finally, I told the translator the restaurant in the hotel was too expensive for me. After all the time spent arguing over where to eat, the taxi left. The translator told me, "We will just eat a snack in the restaurant and then go to the other restaurant. They ended-up ordering dinner. When I saw they ordered dinner and confronted the translator, she replied, "We will eat dinner here and then you can eat at your restaurant." It was so inconsiderate that I almost called it off. But I was already in Kiev and did not know if this was due to the translator or the girl. The bill for dinner was $300.
It got worse. I should have sent the girls home in a taxi.
At the end of three days, I went to pay the hotel bill on their room. What I did not know is that the hotel was moving all of their room bills to my room. So, during the trip when I kept asking the hotel about any charges on their room, I was told that there were not any. When I went to check them out, the girl said they needed to check the mini-bar. Now keep in mind that Viktoria told me she rarely drank liqueur. The front desk girl printed out a list of what they drank and it was $250 of liqueur. No joke! I couldn't believe it. But what could I do about it at that point? I wondered if they took the liqueur with them. But Viktoria brought her clothes in a couple of plastic grocery bags. The translator had a small professional travel bag.
After they left, I compared the list of what they drank with the items in the mini-bar and it was literally everything except two bottles of juice. They drank 2 bottles of Cognac, 2 bottles of Chivas Regal Whiskey, 2 bottles of beer, 2 bottles of wine, etc... Then I noticed the bill I paid was for one day. I went to the front desk and found out they did this three days in a row. I got a bill for $750 of liqueur from the mini-bar alone. They clearly knew how much the liqueur cost. Because they even ordered three bottles of Jack Daniels in the lobby on one night (in addition to the liqueur in the mini-bar).
Unfortunately, I had a non-refundable and non-changeable airline ticket. It was close to the New Year and there really was not enough time to really meet someone else. I went there with the intention of building a relationship with the girl leading to marriage. Unfortunately, I did not have a back-up plan.
I hope this post keeps someone else from making the same mistake with this girl.
Christ, and I thought I spent too much in my trip to Crimea. I whinged when I paid £25 for a meal for 3 including the interpreter, but that was only because I was paying for the interpreter too, which I did not want to do.
I hear on this forum a lot about different ways, women and agencies take men for a ride. I also read that a lot of times the person writing this have been there before and are aware of problems in this country. Me after first time there, I decided screw agencies and web sites. I admit I got lucky with my wife, I have a great friend and partner, again she is not Ukrainian. Spend extra time get that visa. Spend extra time on skype, getting to know this woman. If at any time you see a red flag, YOU ARE RIGHT, dump the bitch and move on. And if you are hard set on Ukraine. REMEMBER BUYER BEWARE. There are a lot of other countries that make up former CCCP. Try them instead. Remember if you are just going for a fun fling, she and her interpreter are doing the same thing.
Wyatt: I'm sorry to hear this and thanks for posting. Your story shows there are many ways a foreigner can be scammed in Ukraine.
I'm going to Ukraine in a few weeks. I have been communicating with this girl both on a dating site and on private email daily. We have also skyped. She doesn't speak English, but one of her relatives does. She translated for us once on skype for 1 1/2 hours. We'll see each other in a different city from where the girl lives because the relative works there, so she can join us a few times and translate. She also makes an effort to learn English.
I'm thinking to pay for her English course after we see each other in person and know exactly what her deal is. I don't have a problem paying. Am I doing the right thing though? is this common after you've met the girl in person? I'm meeting with her for 2 1/2 weeks.
Everything so far registers true and the girl seems very genuine. She says she communicates with me only and her letters seem honest. We have shared quite a bit. She was a little hesitant in the beginning and she asked to skype. After we skyped the first time, I also showed her who I am publicly. After this, she opened up.
I think the girls are also worried about fake and dishonest men. I have read women's forums. They have similar stories, so it goes both ways.
I am a little concerned that our relationship may be developing a little too fast. She asked me to go and see her. She's taking a leave of absence from her work to visit with me. What do you think?
wyatt - whenever I stay in a hotel that has a mini bar very rarely will I use it. I always get my stuff from a nearby produkti or supermarket. These girls were taking you for a ride. They sound like alcoholics. (I would have dumped them and not paid the bill)
Your first mistake was not meeting her in her hometown. Personally I will not meet a girl without some English and I will not pay for an interpreter. Just a personal choice.
I always invite the lady to the hotel café or a café of my choosing that way I am in control. If she demands an expensive restaurant or taxi on the first date (or any date) I tell her to F off then move on to the next date. Never put all your eggs in one basket.
You know you remind me when I was a kid, family had a summer store on a island mostly owned by summer people from the States. Fishing was great if you knew where to go. I was always asked the best spots, times etc. I was always happy to give info. What was funny was watching all these people who decided they knew best and seen a bunch of boats in a crap place, and would drop anchor and join the crowd, always in middle of day, when sun was hot. Then would would come back and ask why they hadn't caught a thing. You know Wifeseeker the former CCCP is a big place. Many countries some good some not so. If I were to go looking. I would look where dating agencies are not every second building down every second street,where marriage agencies are not the national product. I would study the map look up the area I would go. Train travel is pretty cheap, a woman truly interested could afford the the trip and most likely a room if she is sincere. Yes a backup plan is a must. Sure you will sort through a lot of weeds looking for a flower.But when you find her, what a flower you will have. I do not think you would have to go to Georgia, but hay whatever turns your crank. Ya your right you have to be careful where ever you go. So tell me when everyone goes to Ukraine and ends up catching nothing, Everyone knows all the answers, has there plans set. Why do so many fail? Oh by the way If woman is sincere she will travel to Ukraine on her dime. And meet you in Ukraine cause you don't want the hassle of getting a visa to go to her country
Well, there were a lot of replies. I will try and answer some of the questions and comments.
I wondered if the girls really drank all of that liqueur. Since I used to be an auditor, I corroborated it by talking with the girl that checks the mini-bar in the rooms. Yes, they actually drank all of that liqueur. There were a lot of empty bottles in the room each day. Also, I checked with one of the lady's that cleaned the room. Again, a lot of empty bottles.
When I told a friend that owns an honest agency in a different city, she remarked, "The village meets the city." I think this really described these girls. They definitely planned on scamming me. I asked the hotel about room charges to their room. Each time, they told me that there were no charges. I did not know they were moving the charges to my room. So, when the person at the front desk would check the girls' room for charges, there would not be any. That is, until the last day when I happened to ask right as they were checking the mini-bar. The girls could have been trying to run-up the bill at the hotel for a kickback. I don't know. But it definitely is a plausible reason.
But if they did, the hotel lost money. After a lot of pressure, the hotel manager agreed to remove 1/3 of the charges. He was not going to remove anything more than a token. But they have an award for being the highest rated hotel by TripAdvisor. I told him that if they did not want to remove more of the charges, I would pay the bill. Then I would write a review of everything that happened on TripAdvisor. Next, I asked him, "How many people do you think will use your hotel after reading that review on TripAdvisor?"
As for the website where I contacted the lady, they said that they would refund all of the money I spent on emails and correspondence. They did credit my charge card with a refund. But not for the full amount spent.
wyatt - there is an appropriate time that you can pay for a lady's accommodation when you can't travel to her city. I would have put her and her interpreter up in a hostel where beds can go as low as $5 a night in Kiev. They're not luxury and of course they have no mini-bar. If they'd of kicked at that I'd of said see you later - don't come. There are plenty of girls in Kiev and Ukraine for that matter.
You see that's just one of the tests. If she demands a private taxi, if she demands a luxury hotel, if she demands an expensive restaurant it's indicative of her character.
"I did not know they were moving the charges to my room." How is it possible that they could "move" the charges to your room without the hotel notifying you? In my view the hotel was an accomplice in this fraud because they knew you would object to the charges. Typical for Ukraine.
I would go ahead and write your review on Trip Advisor anyway. What was the name of the hotel?
There was no reason for them to move the charges to my room instead of leaving them on the girl's room. They already knew I was paying for both rooms. So, "Why move the charges?" I think they knew I would object and cut-off the mini-bar.
The manager was visibly sweating when I told him to remove half the charges. He knew they messed-up.