I do not think it is necessary, anymore, to tell you everything you did wrong but in the interest of others starting to look for a lady over there we should list here everything that you did wrong, starting with the first time you felt tempted to answer a messsage, asking you to chat, from a model looking agency girl.
You know wife seeker, just read Choose Ukrainian and yes this one. I think the best idea I have heard on this forum, is your comment to Wyatt. Don't just do what went wrong, work for a solution to. Start the subject fresh. I have been on this forum for a few years now, I started after I found out what Ukraine was about. So do most people, I think. I truly don't know whether it will help or not, maybe it will help one person out that wants to cry about his spilled milk. I am sure of one thing it will make a interesting topic. How about ideas to beat the dating house.
- You cannot take what one man, or a few men say, as a fact: e.g. A few men say that ALL Ukrainian girls are scammers, others that you should only go to the Ukraine looking for a wife
- The advice is scattered all over this site and other sites.
- There are some common patterns in scammers but it is not in black and white on some. For instance, my girl has made me suspect but she does not follow the pattern of a scammer and I have been looking for reports on her on the whole of the Internet, for weeks, and I cannot find anything, dspite the fact that she has given me copies of all her ID documents, postal address, email, phone, everything. I am completely puzzled. I have not put more details of what has happened with her here, to gather opinions, as I promised her that I would not expose her to the bitter and paranoid men who find a scammer on everybody. I will have to decide for myself.
Here is my first contribution to "Guide for newbies"
That website which Wyatt used:
www russian-women-personals com
looks hilghy suspect: all women look like models, even the 45 year olds have photos where they look like they are 25. Is this site saying that there are no ordinary looking women in the FSU or do they only accept model looking girls? That would be discrimination.
This site also looks like a mirror site of www lovessa com
unless they are now selling a standard dating website format for any cowboy to set up his dating site. I do not have the time to check if the girls are the same on both sites.
Then there are the girls names: lovelySveta, FaithfulWife, etc, why not use their real first names as on serious websites?
And you pey per message and probably everything else. 'nuff said...
You've got to be careful there nonetheless WS. Does she want to rush to marriage and the immigration process so she can get to your country? Does she have some ulterior motive? Does she just want a quick ticket out?
Do you want to have children? Does she have the same desire? Have you discussed this with her?
Does she want to have children with YOU?
I always found this question threw them off-kilter for those who had ulterior motives...
I am inclined to think lonlyrangers advice is very good advice. Is safe and will not cost you a cent. Lets start maybe with a section on FQA. On all these mail order sites they have this section no matter how hard some sites make it to find. 2 pieces of advice when going to Ukraine stick out in my mind. 1 make sure you have at least 10 to 20 contacts. 2 If woman asks for for money, dump her and move on. Now what the FQA's don't do is define how the woman will ask for money in this case, woman was smart she sneaked into man's credit at hotel, this one would be hard for any man to catch, till yes, it was to late. These women are not stupid. another way these women may ask for money is to take you on a shopping trip for her maybe child. and ask you to buy stuff you wouldn't buy cause its to damn expensive. They do list some things like english lessons,and trips. So how many ways can you think of for a person to part you from your hard earned cash. Yes buyer beware. These women are smart and family oriented. Remember you are not part of there family. The country is poor, and now very close to war. Think if you lived there what would you do to keep food on your table. Thanks Lonly I'm kind of partial to Beat the dating house to
Do you not realise that the questions you say to ask yourself and an FSU girl about the prospects of marriage are the same about a girl who lives next door to you? Does she want children?, Will she accept your own children? etc.
As for other questions, you can replace "does the FSU girl have an ulterior motive?" with: "Does the girl next door have an ulterior motive?"
Replace: "Does the FSU woman want to marry you so that you get her out of her country?" with "Does she want to marry you so that you get her out of her parents' house?"
A lot of men looking for a wife in the FSU seem to think that these ladies have a different DNA from the women in their own country. Women are women and the FSU women just have a different approach for wanting the same things as a Western woman. It is only that the FSU women are better looking and there are a lot more of these willing to consider you than in the West, that is all.
As for the possibility that the FSU woman is a scammer, just visit scammer data bases that list women from all over the world, not just FSU women. You can see Latin American, American, Western European, African, Australian, Asian and women from all over the world mixed with the FSU scammers.
A Western woman who wants to marry you for your money (of which the great majority do) is a scammer alright.
Keep in mind, you are going on a vacation to another country to meet your prospective mate. So you are going to drop some cash. Make up your mind what is exceptable,and what is not. Be prepared to run into some bad eggs on your journey, So when your gut tells you this is not right, RUN, cause your gut is right. Remember all these wonderful emails you have been exchanging with these girls are most likely form letters, written by the agency, they are made to lure you in, so you can spend your cash in expensive restaurants with expensive interpreters. So check up on the rates these people should be getting. Do your homework 25$ a hour for a interpreter in Ukraine is about 15$ a hr to much. I could go on but making these entries to long just bores the reader. I still feel the other Russian countries where marriage agencies are not so prevalent are your best choice
Itís my belief, that if you have the time to spend 2 or 3 weeks in the FSU,,, you should do it and just do your own thing. Itís not easy for me to get away for that long,,, so I want to be reassured that I have a good reason to make the trip. Thatís why I wrote letters and used a website and agencies to do it. I do not promote websites or agencies what so ever. It was just a necessary evil.
Before I had a computer my opinion of internet dating was low,,,, I considered it embarrassing! How could searching in a Eastern European country for a mate be an improvement?
Even before my first trip of the online era,,,, I knew something was off. Every time I started to get close to a girl,,,, asking for contact info,,,, poof, the girl would be gone. It didnít take very long to realize, that there wasnít as much money in marrying couples,, as there was in keeping everyone single and writing! The FSU tail chasing race! (your own tail)
WS that's true what you say about the girl next door but you don't have such a vested interest with the girl next door. You're not spending thousands to go see her nor are you undergoing the sponsorship process to bring her to your country.
Be careful is all I'm saying. If she's too eager about anything... in my experience that sets off a red flag and one should exercise caution.
letters, are my thought of the day. After all this is first contact. Isn't it amazing how all these girls can write the perfect letter, right from the very first word. Ask yourself when your reading them how many other men have received the very same letter. Even after that first intro letter. The letters are almost perfect. Just for you. Give me a break, The ones that are easy to spot either send naked or very seductive pictures of the girl with the letter. Or blatantly ask for money within the first 3. Now some are smarter then others, agencies help with these letters, and very often write them. A successful agency will have one or more people that write very good letters. So now you are faced with a way of making contact. Hmm SKYPE is good but with agency involved, Because of course woman can't speak English now you start paying. Funny English is becoming much more prevalent in these countries, but for some reason when money is involved, everyone just dummies up. So whats a man to do. You know if your going to go, then go. Just make sure you have done a lot of homework. Or as lonelyranger says JUST DON'T GO
Several years ago I was traveling through Ukraine with a male friend. I stopped with him at a well known agency so that he could look at the albums of ladies profiles, despite my protests that the agency was less than honest. We both sat in the small living room/front office of the agency, he was sitting on a sofa looking at the albums while I was sitting on a chair next to a young lady employed by the agency working on a desktop computer. As I sat there the lady sent out literally tens of thousands of letter using a form letter, and a computer program that fills in the name of the man getting the letter. She would send out a batch of fifty letters every minute or two. What amazed me was that she must have been aware that I knew what she was doing as the place was so crowded that we were sitting as close as two lovers at the movies. She never attempted to cover it up. I guess the agency had no guilt as it was their way of giving a little help to bringing people together.
wineman I have a similar story. I went to a dating agency in Kiev. I passed a room in which a woman was sitting at a computer. She appeared to be corresponding on behalf of dating profiles. That was what she did all day.
I went into the agency owner's office and sat down in front of him. I could see the dishonesty in his eyes.
Fortunately no financial transactions occurred and I left his office.
That reminds me of last year when I was staying at a place on Khreschatyk Street in Kiev. There were two gentlemen, well dressed sitting on a park bench. They appeared to be German or Italian. Anyway they were saying hello to attractive women that walked by. They did this for several hours as I recall and I did see some chicks turning over their digits (phone numbers) to them. I wonder if anything ever materialised. I guess they were fed up with these kind of scam agencies.
One of the main difficulties is to find out where the scam website ends and where the lady scammer begins. For instance, I found a couple of girls, who I met in the reputable dating site I use, in other dodgy sites, with different names and personal data. The girls swore that they did not put those profiles in the dodgy sites. Then I know that men and site owners go around stealing photos and descriptions of girls from honest sites and put them in their dodgy sites where you pay even to look at their photos and where they send you messages pretending they come from the girls.
I found this girl's fake profile in a dodgy site. She swore she could not even enter the site to see 'her' profile. I checked her all over the internet for scammer activity and found nothing. She even admitted to me that she had met a few foreign men who were 'nice' (generous) to her but none seem to have reported her as a scammer. She had also been in my dating site, where they quickly remove scammers, for several months. So on this occasion I believed her.
When I find things in the internet about a girl I am interested in, even if it is in scammer data bases, I prefer to ask her (in a VERY diplomatic way) to tell me what she knows about it instead of assuming she is a scammer and moving on. Sometimes they convince me, sometimes not. Even a girl I found in a scammer database convinced me she was not a scammer. I know I have reported a girl to a scammer database without being sure she was a scammer...
I have also given help to genuine girls to clean up their information in the Internet by telling them what I found about them. They contact the administrators of a dating site, for instance, to tell them rudely to remove their photos.
One last thing: The Google image search (using the girls' photos) does work. Do not limit your searches to jusy written data!
Wot! You send me a private messsage calling me cheap as I whinged because I paid £25 in a restaurant? I made it clear it was because I was paying for the interpreter.
This is what you do and you are not cheap?
- You refuse to pay for a taxi on your first date(s) when taxis over there are cheap as chips
- You will not even bring a box of chocolates as a present when you meet a lady, against HER customs
- You want the lady to stay in a flea infested hostel for $5 a night, where there is probably not even privacy for her. I doubt that prostitutes would want to stay in one of those places.
- But you will buy presents for sex.
No, you are not cheap, you just know how to get your money's worth :-)
I feel sorry for that girl you managed to pick up. She can already see what is coming if she goes to live with you
You know WM I think that if some one is going to go on a writing spree with these letters. They should take the time and write with known scammers as well. Just to get the experience of the knowledge of how these letters go. When I wrote letters I would get lots of scam letters and would write back just for the hell of it. Figured if they would waste my time I would waste there time as well. Just to see who was better so to speak. Once you know what to look for makes that honest one that more easy to see. If there actually is one