I'm always a little puzzled why when anyone has an experience (good or bad) doesn't disclose the agency.
No offense, but it's just a story unless it has details. Name the agency, guys will avoid it over time as word gets out and we all help each other--that's one of the points of the forum isn't it? The bad agencies, will go under, others will up their model and the best will rise.
WS - So you whined because you were paying the interpreter and paying her meal too?
I don't know if I can explain something to a feeble mind but I'll try.
- Taxis are not cheap as chips if she's using the taxi to scam. There are many different taxi scam scenarios such as the taxi driver being her boyfriend / brother, over inflated prices or her collecting taxi money then taking public transport but I'll not get into all those here. If you have an honest girl that's not trying to scam you then yes, in some small towns in Ukraine taxis are cheap as chips.
- Again youíre misquoting me. I didn't say never give gifts. I said wait until the relationship is further developed before giving gifts. It all depends on the circumstances. If she's coming on an overnight train to see me (for example from another town to Kiev) a small bouquet of flowers might be appropriate. But I'm not going to buy her a diamond gold necklace on the first date. She may choose it's her last date and have a souvenir to show for it. A cheap box of chocolate? As I mentioned before it's better not to give gifts at all than cheap gifts but to each his own.
- Hostels in Ukraine are not flea bag infested. They are clean and modern. If she doesnít wish to stay with me I can offer her a reasonably priced hotel room or hostel female dormitory bed. I'm certainly not going to put her up at the Premier Palace or Opera Hotel at $300 a night. So far my strategy has worked well for me.
Fortunately the girl I've met now has her own job and money. So she does not have some ulterior motive. She doesn't even want to leave Ukraine I think. We might be getting married this summer. Guess I got lucky with this one because most will just leech off you and try to suck money.
I've been into this for a little over one and a half months. When I registered on this site, I had absolutely no idea what to expect and had no specific plan on how to approach ladies. I wasn't even sure that I wanted to get married to one and never drafted or sent a general intro letter. I simply invited a handful of ladies by sending them my pictures and asking them if they would like to begin communication. Within the first 2 days, I met an incredible girl (underscore incredible) and we have been communicating since then. I am visiting her within a few weeks. It took me one month subscription to accomplish this. Maybe I was very lucky. I did come across tens of potential scammers and time wasters (all of whom contacted me, not the other way around) and it was very easy to weed them out and avoid them.
What I want to mention is that there are men who are worse than the scammer girls. So, here is the story. Someone picks up what I wrote in the forum and PM's me telling me that he has been in communication with this girl, has plans to visit her, etc., she asked him for money for English lessons and a lot of other BS as it was proven later. This happened after I had 3 weeks of communication with her and of course I immediately became suspicious. I asked her directly. The girl reacted immediately. She told me about this guy. Indeed they had several emails of general nature (as she had with other men, as well), never discussed about a visit with anyone. She stopped communication after she met me. She had been on the site a few weeks before I registered. When she stopped communication with him, she just stopped, did not let him know her intentions. That was probably not right. However, this guy follows up and sends her a picture with the middle finger, and tells her "kiss my ass peasant". Now, get this, over an exchange of PMs in two days, this guy denies it (tells me that it's probably a third guy she pissed off) and insists on the allegations and keeps trying to put ideas in my head that the girl is dishonest. I ask him for information, he says he deleted her emails and tells me some very general information about her, most of which is plain BS. The girl is in distress and wants to prove that these are lies. She gives me her login name and password so I can get on the site and see her personal emails for myself. She also forwards me the vulgar email this guy sent to her. The email information checks exactly with the place where this guy lives (according to his previous posts in the forum), so it is him who sent her the email. The girl takes the initiative to remove herself from the site to show me that she is only interested in me and has made her choice. She did and I did the same. We have been communicating exclusively for four weeks. I will not mention who this guy is. This is not the purpose of this post. It is not in my nature to engage in pissing contests.
Let me say this. I never checked her personal emails. I appreciated her offer, but I do not care with whom she had correspondence before me. I would not violate her privacy. This is the purpose of the dating site. A girl can have correspondence with as many guys as she wants and can make her choice. If she had stopped communication with me, I would just leave her alone even if she did not give me a reason. But this is me, I respect women regardless of their nationality.
In any event, I am happy to report that everything is very well and dandy. We have exchanged well over 100 emails (most very long emails) of substance and information about each other and not BS talk about the war in Ukraine. We have been seeing each other on Skype every few days, 3 hours each time, no kidding, even having to communicate via translation software most of the time. The girl is gorgeous in front of a cheap camera and even without any makeup. She is the kind of sweet, simple, pretty, next door kind of girl with whom every man could fall in love. She is honest, open and the most wonderful person. Our connection is at an amazing level. The words I love you and many many words of love and affection are now used in every letter and every call. Not even in my wildest dreams I would have thought it would be possible to meet such a girl in Ukraine or America. Oh and she never asked about how her lifestyle will be in America, or what I can offer her. She will come to meet me at the agreed location by train with her own money. Her relative will help us with translation sometimes as she has done three times already on Skype. There are no interpreters and the girl is trying to improve her English on her own and I am learning some Russian words and phrases. I will be visiting her for three weeks and I am renting two apartments in the same building. I asked her opinion on which apartments. She said that she lives in a small but cozy apartment, she does not care where we will be staying, she trusts me and wants me to make the decision, she would prefer if we were not too far from each other. She works for a living and has taken her unpaid vacation time to come and see me.
Bottom line: it is possible to meet a high quality girl, as it is possible that some men (hopefully very few) are actually worse than the scammers. Best.
You know batman, when I went on my first trip and did all my letter writing the internet site did their job. The agencies that represented these girls who put them on this site some did there job some didn't, The unfortunate part is that when I went there I did not know the agency names. However the internet site had no problem removing the ladies there was a problem with. At that time the internet site was Global ladies. Yes they had no problem removing gold diggers and scammers from their site. The agency owner I met was known quite well by this site, and there had been many problems with her. So If you ever meet a agency owner in Zaporozhye named Karina, who reminds you of a bondage queen, just beat the bitch with a bat, and run
Batman,,,, I am guilty of not reporting girls and agencies myself. The first trip I shrugged off as possible misunderstandings,,,, the second trip and beyond,,,,, no f-ing way,,, I did my research.
When we post too many details here on the forum, we risk the chance of losing our anonymity. I know for a fact that many agency owners and interpreters do follow this forum. I know two examples of members posting names, agencies, and interpreters, only to have them (agencies) post their own stories trying to discredit the bad PR! Their stories were not very kind either.
If you report a girl to her agency or website, and she is removed,,, she only has to walk up or down a flight of stairs or across the street to the next agency and she is back in business.
One time, I was asked about my date from the night before,,,, and I said; it was the date from hell,,,, and a few other details,,, she was removed. I found her on another site thru another agency days later. I know of one girl that was on over 47 different websites!!! I guess her ďboyfriendĒ of several years didnít mind!?
Aweb and Iím sure a few other websites, guarantee their trips or you can get your money back. But what good does it do to spend your time with a girl that is being pressured into spending time with you?? Itís better to learn the truth about her on the first date,,,, let her scam with the taxis or interpreters,,,, then donít see her again.
I think that what happens to you is that you can write but not read your own messages. You tell me I am cheap as I take low cost presents (not cheap in quality). I take a box of Yorkshire tea, for instance -they love it you could learn from this- which is low cost, good quality. Yet you pay $5 per night for accommodation, when a nice flat, with comforts, clean and privacy, for both of you can cost only $55 or so per night. THAT is being cheap.
And yes I am talking about the first meeting taking presents to show that you know about their customs.
You would be the first to say: do not pay for interpreters' meals! buy them a $1 hot dog.
Your excuse is always "they are scammers". According to you all women over there seem to be scammers, except for your girlfriend :-D
Your logic is: if the lady wants a taxi, she is a scammer, yeah right.
Your girlfriend is 'special' as she has got a job and supports herself plus she does not need to leave the Ukraine? What a laugh, in that case the other 26 million or so women in the Ukraine are special too. She really has got you well fooled.
The girl that I reported to a scammer site, I asked the site to remove her and they did even though today I do not kno what to think about her; I had to give her the benefit of the doubt so I sais I made a mistake (maybe I didn't). Why would you complain about this? She did ask me to take taxis when I met her, so she must be a scammer :-D
You say your girl is special, honest and a good person, yet you pay for sex. Where does that leave you?
lonelyranger1701 - If you operate by rules, if you operate by principles one will never have to go through the hell you experienced on a date.
Deal breakers for me:
- demanding a taxi (regardless of price) as a condition of meeting
- demanding an interpreter (even though she may speak English) as a condition of meeting
- demanding to go to a specific restaurant as a condition of meeting (and you foot the bill of course)
- demands you take her shopping on the first date (or any date thereafter)
All of these are deal breakers for me and indicate that she's a professional dater (does this for a living). They are very easy to spot and I've become proficient at it.
There is a whole pro-dating industry over there and the sooner that us guys stop supporting it the better. It's important that you register your pro-dater as soon as possible not only to give other guys a heads up about your particular scammer but a heads up about pro-dater / scammer tactics.
Now you have got me completely intrigued, was it in this site that somebody sent you a PM about the girl? How would He know which girl you were referring to in your postings?
Yes there are a lot of nasty men who get rejected, many report the girl and she gets removed from the site as the girls are the 'scammers'
I do not like to throw buckets full of water on men who want a Ukrainian girl like I do but... You say she is not asking you how lavish her lifestyle will be when she probably has a picture in her mind already. You did say that you played your trump card and told her or hinted that you are wealthy.... plus you are getting two apartments, one for each when you meet, and how much are they? I plan to meet my girl in Kiev soon, I am hiring an apartment with two rooms, out of decency, that is all. It will cost about $55 per night.
But a sign of honesty is she let you look in her private correspondence.
This is a common pattern:
Man: You are gorgeus, I want sex with you, when can we meet?
Girl: You are an arshole, leave me alone
Man to administrators: this woman is rude to me
Administrators: we removed the girl for violating the terms not to insult...
How about don't see her the first time? You see there are signs that she gives off before the date so you can save yourself some misery. If you're well trained you can easily detect these tell tale signs before going to the meeting.
Does she ask you to pay for her taxi as a condition of meeting?
Does she want to go to one specific restaurant and she will not accept your suggestions?
Does she ask you which hotel you are staying at? (This is done to gage your financial state).
Does she talk with a lot of laughter and flowery language?
Basically what she's doing on your initial call to you is qualifying you as to whether you're worth her time and she can profit.
But you can do the same. You can the indicators I've listed above to see if she's worth seeing and don't forget, most pro-daters are quite attractive in appearance. That's their job. They take their business very seriously.
4re_geo tryed to read your story. Sounds like a soap to me. I am not saying whats write or wrong here. This is what I learned that worked for me. My wife speaks very good English for starts. We skyped for about 6 months before we decided to meet. Yes there are very sincere people, yes there are real asses also. Do not put your faith in translating programs or a few phrases of Russian, nor should she put her faith in a few English phrases. Communication is hard at its best. Translating programs are a lot better now but still the mechanics of Russian when delivered is very much different then English. Don't be surprised when your translating program says something totally stupid that you or her did not mean. And I would practice for a little while longer before making a attempt at this. Make sure she knows this to You could wind up looking like a total dumb ass. Just my thoughts
Wifeseeker: yes, she was on this site, private emailer. I only communicated with very few private emailers. One I think was a scam, but no definitive proof. The others seemed fine. All agency girls were very obvious that someone else was writing the letters for them, did not waste any time at all. This girl was the reason I registered on the site, I noticed her immediately when I was browsing. The guy is on the forum, but I will not mention name. Each to his own. Apartments are reasonably priced, there is little demand for travel to Ukraine currently. The girl is not after money, for this I am confident. She is different in many aspects. I can judge character and she is extremely open. Just yesterday, I asked her to bring to our meeting the necessary information for the visa processing. Why wait? ::)) the process takes many months anyway.
stevc: you're right in that it does sound soap to others. With the exception of parents and a couple close friends, none else knows. None would take it seriously. I beg to differ about the translation. I use translation software that gives several versions. 95% of the time, I understand perfectly what she says. The rest I ask her again and she puts the sentence in a different form that I can understand. She is learning English now and works extra hours to pay for it. I will not pay for her English. She has to do this. I help her during the Skype calls. I also disagree on the language being the criteria for a good match. I spoke the same language with every woman I have been with before and with none I had such a connection. She understands everything I say to her because she replies and comments on everything. On Skype, as I said, her relative has helped a few times. When we are alone on Skype, I translate from English to Russian, the software also converts Cyrillic characters to Latin and I speak to her in Russian. She understands fine. She does the same. If there are mutual feelings, there is will, and language barrier is not an issue in my view. Best.
WS - a lot of times the lady will not want to share the same apartment as you even if is offered her own separate private room. In this case I have in the past offered her a separate hotel room or on other occasions a hostel dormitory bed. If she's demanding an expensive luxury hotel room then that's indicative of her character and it's audios amigo for me.
Many of the hostels in Ukraine are converted from luxury apartments. So you really have no idea of what you're talking about on this subject. They are not flea bag infested as they would be in the UK for example. If you don't believe me the next time you're in Kiev check them out. You don't have to stay there just check them out.
If you're corresponding with only one woman for 9 months then yeah I can see you taking a token type of present. No problem with that but for other guys who have taken a different strategy such as corresponding with 5 or more taking gifts for each of them becomes a bit difficult. I just find no gifts at all works. My current gf - I never presented her a gift on our first meeting and she didn't expect one. I've have presented her gifts since then and she has appreciated them but these gifts came from the heart not part of some custom that you HAVE to present a gift. And as I mentioned before I'm not really interested in a girl who is only in it for the gifts...
I agree with your sediments on scam reports. Some guys place what are known as "revenge reports" - when she won't do what he wants (ie give into sex). This can happen in the case of a real meeting or not. Many scam reporting site have become more flexible in removing these type of reports. Some are not and are almost impossible to remove even if the information has proven to be false.
TomZ,,,, the hell I went through, was having a girl drink herself onto the floor,,,, rubbing my you know what for about 6 hours,,,, sometimes holding herself up by it. It went from being a date to babysitting,,, and no,,, I donít walk out on defenseless dates. I was pissed at the time, but laugh about it now
The girl I should never have seen again, I met on each trip. There was only one red ribbon before our first meeting,,,, I called her when on the road from the airport to her town,,, like I promised I would. She answered, I told her I was in town,,, and she said; Ah huh,,,, and hung up! It was 10:30 pm her time,,,,,, but I was the first foreign man to visit her,,, or so she said?? It should have been exciting for her,,,,, ah huh?
I was only taken for a large amount on taxis once,,,,, and I was given the choice of traveling to her and passed on it.
I donít mind the restaurants,,,, even if they are expensive. I havenít found a place yet that costs more than where I live. I enjoy trying the different dishes,, in fact,, it might be half of the reason for me to ever return!
I think I was only asked once to stay at a different hotel, because it was better. But I choose good to better hotels anyway,,, I choose a place that fits my needs, thatís why I wonít ever stay in an apartment. I do have a few horror stories to tell,,, like the 12 hours I spent at the Zirka hotel in Odesa. After I found a much better place to stay,,, I tossed the room keys at the girls behind the counter and walked out,,, I didnít even ask for the 2nd days money returned.
The only thing that the girls have ever demanded,, was for me to use the agency apartments. That was in my last city,,,,,, several girls,,,,, one agency! That is my biggest deal breaker. To think theyíve wasted so much of my time,,,, just for the money on an apartment. Grrrrrrr!
No,,, if they are of an demanding nature,,, they donít stand much of a chance with me. I am happy to give out of the goodness of my heart,,,, but I do not serve!
Sounds like you had a real floozy there LR. One thing I won't do is support someone's alcohol or cigarette addiction. When they start ordering drinks like that I straighten them out on what she has to pay for. I've even had one order cigarettes in a restaurant and it was tacked onto the bill. You could tell she was expecting me to pay. I explained to her I'd pay for her drink but not the cigarettes. No way.
On the subject of apartments, I don't mind staying in apartments. That way I can do my own cooking.
Never use 'Agency apartments' (apartments offering by dating agencies). They are often marketed up 50-100% of current market prices. Use an internet booking site such as Booking.com to get the best deals.
I think we should make the distinction in terms of different types of ladies who want money: there are the blatant scammers who want to extract money from you without even meeting you in person, the professional daters, the gold diggers who only want a guy to lavish her with luxuries and one day divorce him for all she can get, after she gets her permanent visa and then the girls who are prepared to give love and even be loyal but only to a guy with money.
I think that your girl may be the latter but then again I cannot say why not.
The next type of girl that people like me, who are not wealthy, are looking for is one who primarily will want you for yourself and other benefits like being taken to the West, being spoilt when the man is able to, etc. will be welcome anyway.
I have made it clear to my girl that, when I have money I am generous, when I don't I will say we have to tighten our belt. She has told me she is OK with this. She still insists that it is me she is looking at. She has not asked me anything about my house, car or salary. What I like is her honesty in saying that she will appreciate being spoilt every now and then. It is not easy to find a girl like this. I must have approached 200 girls and established regular contact with some 30 of them to get to this one.
The very last type of girl would be the one that will take any man with 2 arms and 2 legs, a pauper if it needs be but these girls do not exactly look like Mila Jovovich.
Talking about alcohol, my lady friend has shown me she likes to drink wine, no BS about never touching a drink. I said thank god for that as I really want a lady to have a drink with.
She was a real handful that night! Her correspondence was really bland, and I almost skipped her because there wasnít any spark or magic. Who knew she would be rubbing on the love wand after just 2 or 3 hours and a few drinks. She couldnít handle her liquor and was tipsy after just 2 drinks,,, she had 7 or 8 that night. Maybe she didnít drink often and didnít know how it would effect her, or it was because she was so lean? The first girl I ever dated that had a six pack,,, (abs)
No,, I couldnít ever bring her home. We donít drink often here,,, but if she had a few drinks during a holiday or when we went out,,, it could turn out to be unpleasant. She can act as wild as she wants here at home,,,, but not out in public like we were in her city.
All of the women Iíve dated in Russia and Ukraine were 100% opposite of their profiles. This canít be a coincidence!! You/we search thru their profiles looking for the best choice for us, and hope there is a connection when we meet. If she is opposite,,,, and not a match, we think to ourselves;,,,, She lied to me and I need to find another. So you keep searching and keep writing. Just what the websites and agencies want you to do!
Has anyone else noticed that they are no longer called ďmarriage agenciesĒ and are called; ďdating agenciesĒ instead?