Just feel like sharing the story about my own stupidity.
Saw a Crimean girl who looked cute on EM in January so I sent her an EOI. She responded with the typical pre written intro letter but I replied again and conversation went on.
She was openly an agency girl. I didn't really want that but she seemed to interesting to drop for me. She said the agency helped her with translation.
I decided to take a chance and booked a trip to Simferopol in March. There where still no signs to me of what was to happen there.
She of course wanted her interpreter to join us there. I felt uncomfortable with it but agreed. I insisted on taking care of accomodation myself though.
Things were messy down there when I left home. My flight was cancelled when I arrived in Istanbul so I flew to Kiev instead. There I slept on a bench at the train station before I could take the night train to Simferopol. I didn't even know if I would be let in.
I arrived there and sneaked past some armed drunks randomly searching people before I saw her there. Stayed over the referendum.
We had a good time there and decided to meet again for a longer time. This time I needed a Russian visa which to me meant traveling 600 km to apply and and again to pick up.
Just before the trip her EM profile disappeared. I asked why and she said "I delited my EM profile. I find you!"
I had told her earlier that I would consider paying for English lessons if we got exclusive so now we started discussing it.
I visited again. I am the King of Karaoke over there;)
Back at home we started planning next trip to either Crimea or somewhere else. She promised to start English lessons in September.
Now the funniest part starts. By accident I found a guy on instagram with pictures meeting her. I contacted the guy. Our stories were so similar. Both would have her start English lessons in September...
The pictures she had sent me from the beach the past three weeks he had taken... He told me that he already suspected she knew English because her old and inactive facebook stated she studied at Simferopol specialized English school. I looked into it and in the comments she had conversations with people in the exact same style as the letters I got "translated" from her. She also knew German;)
We confronted her. At first she tried the "I only talk with him for the presents" to both of us. Later of course realized that it was impossible since we talked to each other. So she dumped me nicely and someway got him to pay 600$ for 3 months of English classes even though she speaks English at facebook and instagram...
Oh and she also didn't quit EM. Her profile was deleted because of unethical behaviour.
Well that's my stupidity for you. Cost me 7 months and lots of money;)
Well, yes, paying for English classes, or anything for that matter, that is the problem.
I met a guy in Simferopol. He told me a couple of guys had hired him to follow and investigate what their girls were using the money they sent them for. For instance, he followed them to see if they were going to the English school. Surprisingly, I think one of them was actually spending the money on English lessons.
However, you send money to a girl and then you pay someone else to watch her how she spends the money? When is there going to be a man who will pay a third person to watch if the investigator is actually spending the time watching the girl, then a fourth person to check on the third one....
Yeah the most stupid part by me was that I already knew this agency game but still hoped she was for real. A bit pathetic;)
I could confirm her identity and she didn't seem dishonest about interests and such while looking at her vk. Should have checked the facebook earlier...
She is still on Natasha Club even though she told me she had taken down her EM profile for me. The profile is online very correlating to her being online on vk so she manages it herself.
The interpreter the other guy used is also on that site. She doesn't speak English either... Probably doing some interpreting for each other;)
Don't think I'll take a chance with an agency girl again... Haha!
Tyler - your mistake was putting all your eggs in one basket. Before I met my current gf, when I would go to Ukraine I would have 5, 10, 20 contacts so if anything went afoot with one contact such as scams, pro-daters and such like I could quickly drop her and move on to the next contact.
I see so many guys in her such as WS who put all their eggs in one basket. I asked him what is your backup plan if things don't work out with your girl in Crimea? His answer? "Go back" (home) and start writing again. That was his backup plan. Why go back home when there's millions of beautiful girls in the country you're already in? I think he implemented his backup plan and is writing again.
If I am going to meet anyone over there who "supposedly" does not know English, I will hire my own translator and set things up myself. There will be no "presents" to someone who is not committed. This applies whether the lady is connected to an agency or not.
Tyler,,,, don’t sweat it! Every guy here has made a similar mistake at some point,,, that’s why we are all here!
You can do everything right,,, and still run into a scammer or time waster.
One piece of advice that I will give you is: at least have some respect for the genuine ladies. TomZ has no respect or consideration for the ladies by telling you to have up to 20 women on your list, when the matter with one has become serious enough for you to make the effort to go and see her.
These are women, human beings, not bets for you to consider the odds of how to spread your bets wisely. It is not the fault of the genuine ones if you end up with a scammer.
Read the profiles of some ladies who say how much they hate men who keep them as a reserve in case things go wrong with other women they prefer. Women have a very good instinct for this, much better than men's, and can detect it. Many women do the same to men and it is still no justification. That girl on my posting about messages that make you laugh, I know she is talking to loads of men (her messages look copied and pasted), that is why I do not take her seriously.
Think about it in relation to yourself. Would you like to be one of 20 men that a girl keeps in her list and then be, say option 15, after the lady ends her relationships with the others?
If you are really interested in one girl, and you have worked on a relationship with her for months, then keep her as 'the one' until a visit to her or skype meetings (or even emails) with her tell you that it is better for both of you not to pursue the relationship, then move on to others.
Initially, yes, it is necessary to chat to several of them to see who it is likely to work with. But making the effort to go an see a lady there can only come as a result of both of you showing a genuine interest in each other, especially after being in contact with her for several months. Then both of you should not just be one of many on the list.
If it does not work with the one lady, do not use others to protect yourself emotionally at their expense. Accept that it did not work and start again.
I would say that VERY casual chat with other girls (NO promises or talk of love) is OK while you go to see a lady of your choice. But to string them along, while you see if the other girl will marry you, that is a no-no.
Hang on a sec, you say the girl was an agency girl because she was in Elena's models or because she was in Natasha Club?
I do not see that Elena's model is an agency. Some people say it is the most respectable dating website. Of course they cannot weed out absolutely all scammers.
As dcguy says, I see that the women in EM tend to be well educated, fluent in English, smart looking, having their identity checked and bloody demanding!
Of course I had communicated with several ladies initially. I stopped when we decided to take our profiles down from EM (Elena's Models). By then we had already met and I thought I really wanted to try it with this one.
During several months she had me believe there were no others while collecting gifts and having fun with other men. She was an extremely good liar.
It's ok seeing and communicating with several people if honest about it of course for both men and women. I thought I had come past that stage with this one.
Disturbing me now is the fact that the guy I talked to has come in a state of complete denial. He paid her interpreter $600 to teach her English after we discovered that she knows English... Well his choice...
I'll start from the beginning again and try to learn from my mistakes. There clearly was warning signs all the way that I ignored.
Sad advice coming from someone who's tried and failed so many times. WS will write them one by one, in some cases for up to 9 months, then go see her. Invariably it doesn't work out so he goes back home and starts all over.
I am trying to show you a more efficient way. There's nothing wrong with having 20 ladies on your list or 50 for that matter. The man in most cases is going to all the expense of travel. The woman is going to virtually none. 99% of legit women will expect you to travel to their home city for the initial meeting. Some won't even come to the meeting unless you pay her cab fare. So her expense is nothing and the guy is expected to cover all costs. And those are the ones who aren't scammers and pro-daters. You bet you should have multiple women on your short and long list.
WS does have one benefit though in corresponding with one woman for 9 months. She has such a vested interest she will try extra hard to make the relationship work. Over time though she will see that she doesn't want to spend the rest of her life with this man and will eventually drop him.
I initiated correspondence with my current gf while I was in Ukraine. She didn't like the fact that I was in Ukraine already. (What are you meeting other girls? Of course, silly). But, I was able to meet with her, we hit it off and the rest is history.
Anyone who goes to Ukraine (or other FSU country) to see only one woman is a fool. Keep your options open. Have a plan B, a plan C and so on. Don't be rigid and inflexible like WS.
I agree wit TomZ, listen to his advice as he has been sucessfully :-D trying to find a wife in the FSU for 20 years, added to the fact that he believes that a woman who clearly does not have the intention to go to him is his girlfriend.
Remember, efficiency as in a plastic bucket factory is what matters in questions of love. Just think of the girls as plastic buckets. Remember you are the Western man, you are the one that matters, the girls are just items in a MOB catalogue. Don't bother to try and see things from the ladies' point of view and you will also have 20 successful years of looking for an FSU wife.
Who, in his own country, tries to develop a relationship with a member of the opposite sex, while keeping 20 others 'on reserve' while he/she sees if it works with the preferred option and then immediately goes to use one of the others for emotional protection if the relationship fails with the 'preferred option'? A scoundrel, that is who.
Tyler,
I agree with the system you describe you used: talked to several ladies initially and then narrowed it down to almost only one when it became 'serious'. You just were unlucky and ended up with a scammer.
I only think it is worth going to see 2 or more of them in one trip if it is the ones that tell you they will only talk to you in person, that they do not want to waste time with correspondence. In that case, yes, why commit your time and money for only one of those girls who did not commit her time in correspondence. I do not think you owe them anything
A straw man is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent's argument. [1] To be successful, a straw man argument requires that the audience be ignorant or uninformed of the original argument.
Misstating that I've been seeking a wife for 20 years. I have not. I said that I've been travelling to the FSU for 20 years.
The fact is WS you'll never be successful at finding a wife. No woman is going to want to marry you other than to use you for UK immigration. Then it's adios amigo. I think you understand this and that's why you invite them to live with you in the UK under the ruse of getting to know each other better, see if you can live together, etc.
Once a woman sees your true colours she is going to RUN. I think you know that and that's why you play your game. Smart women will see through you.
You see WS, not everyone who goes to the FSU is seeking a wife. Some are already married and seeking companionship. Some are just having a look around. Others are looking for fun or a travel partner.
I've been in countless relationships with FSU women. I'm not going to say whether I've been married or not because I know where you'd go with that.
Face it you're a colossal failure, unwilling to listen to anyone's advice but forcing your advice down the throats of those who don't want to hear.
The thing is, you can only resort to your wishful thinking in my possible future failure with an FSU lady that will follow u from your made up stories about the ladies I have met. Whereas in your case, we can already see where your future was (now your present) after 20 years of trying. I refer to this woman you call your girlfriend who has no interest in you. You very well know that anyone who is in love for real will only want to find a way to be with his or her loved one, instead of stringing you along indefinitely for whatever reason they have to do so.
And don't add being a liar to your traits. You clearly said before that you had spent 20 years looking for a wife when you tried to show off your experience and expertise in the subject.
"I've been in countless relationships with FSU women."
Yep, you have been pestering women with your sex talk for 20 years. That makes up for a lot of women you have had your imaginary relationships with.
I see WS is telling more lies! He likes to tell lies and fight with other members!!
I remember TonZ telling you on numerous occasions, that he has NOT been looking for 20 years! But you still need to keep repeating the lie!!
TomZ’s opinions on you are probably correct,,,, what woman would want a lying nitpicker like you??
TomZ:
“Face it you're a colossal failure, unwilling to listen to anyone's advice but forcing your advice down the throats of those who don't want to hear.”