You know what would REALLY be interesting to know?
Has ANYONE.. and I mean aaaaaanyone ever chatted with a woman same circumstances.. wanting to stay on the site.. not wanting to leave... met.. and she actually turned out "real" with true intentions?
"That TV Host is so desperate she has to put her profile on some dating site to attract a foreigner from thousands of miles away so he can come to her city and meet with him, that is of course because she can't get any dates locally, being a celebrity and all..."
I dated a TV hostess. PM me and let's see if it's the same woman.
I can't believe how these girls get you so messed up ! FS what the hell you are doing? just ignore what she does while you are not in UKR. If she is hot , she is dating on a regular basis for sure, guys hit on her all the time.
There is nothing you can do behind the keyboard! Words are 7% of the communication , voice 38% and body language 55% so chatting very cool but useless.
Right now in her eyes , you are probably one of these good guys , potential simp and she got you all wrapped up for when she has time.
Here are my recommendations if you care about that girl and want to get her to come to you with a different attitude .
First, stop putting her on a pedestal
second get off the paying chat , on the next exchange you slip her your number and you get her on whatsapp or wechat
(if she doesn't want then next )
Third , don"t tell her she is pretty or beautiful or worst that you love her or like her very much or any version
Fourth, be busy with other girls and make her feel she is not the priority
Fifth , be directive put a plan on the table and get her to agree to it. Do not let her change it, give you excuse or whatever.
Your plan should be very straight forward. Something like, I"m coming on the 17, i want to meet you on the 18 at 3:00.
On the 19 i will be visiting the museum would you like to join me ? If for some reason she pretend she can't then no problem , you will find somebody else and you will try to schedule something later with her if possible. Make sure the only free time you have is late at night so she can't claim she can't see you.
You need to make her work .
If you cant put a plan on the table then stop bothering her with your investigations.
Quite often a pro-dater will make nothing from the site itself. She is there to entice you to come to her city. Once you're there she can go to work on you.
A pretty girl in the city of Kiev has few options. She can work as a secretary or in a shop and make $300 a month.
A pro-dater can easily make that and more in one day courtesy of you. Some pro-daters book 2-3 appointments a day. That's why you see them in designer outfits and jewellery, high heel shoes. They are content to sit with you in your blue jeans, running shoes and t-shirt so long as you are spending and keep on spending. American Express will do nicely thank you.
She will likely collect you from your hotel or apartment via private taxi. On to the restaurant she has booked for the two of you. Quite often the restaurant will be vacant. Nobody else but you. Out come what I call the pro-dater menus. These are menus specifically designed as part of this scam. Dishes range from $80-$100 in price and quite often she will order two of them barely touching anything on her plate. Champagne, expensive wines, fresh juices and designer waters are all part of the plan. She will run up the bill usually in the $300-$500 range. You are expected to pay. She will receive her commission.
Next on to shopping.
The shop scam is similar to the restaurant scam in that everything is pre-arranged. Quite often the goods are returned later and monies divvied up. The shop is party to this scam.
She can't spend the evening with you because well you know she's got a sick mother at home. She'll permit you to peck her on the cheek, that is after you pay her taxi fare "home".
Not the type of 'prodater' I have ever met, not even close. Sorry you ran into one like this TomZ.
Most I have ever spent on girl I felt was a prodater was $145 for 3 people. Including her taxi to and fro.
I think most expensive part would/could be the terp.
And I really appreciate you writing this and warn me.
It is hard not to spent any money of course, as I would obviously pay for dinner. But shopping.. no, gifts, no.
I would never do that.
let me tell you actually what was said.
She wanted me to think of something fun to do. I told her I do not like the whole restaurant first date thing.. nothing to do with scamming and money... I just hate being all proper polite... mannered in a restaurant...
I suggested we do something fun on the first date.. no make up no fancy dresses.. just do something interactive..... like hang-gliding.. (of course just an example so you know what I mean).
She said.. hmmm... it is nearly impossible for me to go on a first date without make up. She didnt say "no". but you can tell she much rather dress up...
I know I come across like a total ignorant noob.. but really .. altough I made mistakes.. obviously.. I am not new to this. And I really am not that innocent.
So I know how I will sound saying this.. but I will dare...
This one doesnt come across like the prof dater. She never talks about gifts, not even hints... but yes sure.. I know ... "she knows what she is doing". I just will say this... her vk page was never meant to be found.. and her bubly playful attitude .. little brother loving, girly girl persona comes through in chat.... except for the "this is the first and last time I will write you here". I mean what the hell.. WHY! Why is it the first and last time.
So yes BIG red flag.. hell not even a red flag.. obviously that is a "forget her".
Like I siad I am going there anywyas for my adventures regardless of women.. and I will just play along for the next few weeks. As of now I dont really think she is a profdater. My worries is one simple thing.
I think I am dealing with a Boris!
But Tom, I liked the way you wrote your post.. genuinely meaning to help. So thank you for that.
TomZ: “Out come what I call the pro-dater menus. These are menus specifically designed as part of this scam. Dishes range from $80-$100 in price and quite often she will order two of them barely touching anything on her plate.”
Has anyone else encountered the “pro dater” menus?
I’ve taken out a girl with the interp many times, and never had a big bill. I even took out a girl, her brother and his girl to a better place, and don’t remember that it was over 100USD for the group. 100USD would have been about 800UAH at the time,,, and over 800 would have got my attention.
I recall one girl in Kiev, she wasn't serious and was just a show off to her friends, she took me to an expensive Japanese restaurant our first night just so that she could boast to her friends that she had been there ... But it wasn't THAT expensive.
When I hung out in Zaporozhye it was my favourite restaurant, O'Briens Irish Pub, that was the most expensive in town but it was my choice to go there because I really enjoyed their pepper steaks cooked rare.
My first gf in Uzbekistan, and I love lamb, on most street corners there would be a little man with his charcoals cooking and selling shashlik, we would buy that along with a loaf of freshly baked Uzbek bread and eat at home most meals, even her family were joking about us and our shashlik, and if for no other reason I'd love to return to Tashkent just for some good ol' street corner shashlik with freshly baked Uzbek bread.
My 2nd gf in Uzbekistan, rather than restaurants she kept taking me to these cheap and nasty fast food places ... I guess I've never met a pro dater :)
'You know what would REALLY be interesting to know?
Has ANYONE.. and I mean aaaaaanyone ever chatted with a woman same circumstances.. wanting to stay on the site.. not wanting to leave... met.. and she actually turned out "real" with true intentions? "
Yea, a girl I know in kharkiv. She works hard to make her business grow, tends to her daughter and mom and once in a while gets modeling work out of Ukraine. Her problem is not enough time for writing back and forth(so phone translation through her agency for letters to/from me), her English is about a 2-3 and just prefers using her agency for communication. She is not on any other sites.......social or dating/marriage.
FS - the pro-dater scenarios I described are just the common ones involving the restaurant and shop scam. There are a million other variations. The goal of the pro-dater is to separate you from your money.
Now the trend is toward all out robbery as beemer18 described in this thread:
Be very careful. Meet in public places and don't let her set the agenda.
Tom: That is a good point. I took my fair share of retarded risks in Ukraine my first trip. (accepted a ride from a man that sat next to me in a train around 2 am.. he called a buddy in Russian to bring his car to give me a ride and find me a hotel in the wee hours of the night.... turned out they were genuinely kind people.. but that was STUPID of me).
Beemer: It is good news there are cases that look fake.. yet they are actually genuine! I guess as long as one doesnt use that to justify the "what if she IS legit" thoughts.
About the pro dater... I met one girl for coffee. that was all we had.. the other girl a susji restaurant... but she gave me her skype illegally on the site and we just started talking like that. So never did I experience the prodater menu.
I dont understand one thing though. What is in it for her financially? To take you to a expensive restaurant, order expensive food.. barely touching it...
What is she getting out of it? Dont even mind the barely touching the food. Even if she eats it... is all the work she has to put into this hole thing.. long time , time investment.. chatting with nasty old men for months... just for a pricey bite to eat that last one hour? Even if she does it more.. (thus many bited to eat)... it also means more time and effort to entertain all these men online. For me it wouldn't be worth it.
And that is my only conflict with this whole thing.
The "tv hostess" I am talking to now...
So now.. let's say she is Boris.
Gia (the real her).. put on her vk page pictures of her meeting her family (xmas there the 7th of Jan).. and ice skating... of course I am stalking the hell out of her vk page...
So I asked Boris "what did you do". He/she actually responded with .... Ohh I went to my family and went for skating bla bla bla.
The thing is.. this is the first time Boris and Gia really obviously matched.
So now this means if this is really Boris... I gave him now a whole lot of extra work. Now he has to coordinate with Gia's vk page before saying anything.
Boris told me too.. "I will go back to Kiev tomorrow".. this is what I am after... predictions. If Boris can predict what Gia will do.. means he and Gia are one and the same .. OR.. they now have to coordinate even more with each other to make it work.
Like I said.. she is pretty known... and her risking her image doing a scam and quite easily exposed if found out... not sure if this all fits logically.
I am absolutely not trying to convince myself here that she may be legit. I am simply looking at all the facts bot negative and positive.
So I should be more accurate... Boris said "I MAY go back to Kiev tomorrow".. Clever girl!!
This was the 7th. didnt hear a thing from her yesterday.. usually we talk daily.
FS, Like most who have been doing this for a while, I am meeting several. I am there for 3 weeks. Only once, 15 years ago did I plan on meeting one. I always have contingency plans now. You can never ever know until you get there. I'm 38, 30+ visits, 3 long term gf's and no marriages.
I'm very new to the site but if you PM me we can share contact details, or you can take the underscores out of my full profile name and write me at gmail. I'll have a site up in three weeks.
Pro-daters has been mentioned in this. The best tip I will give to you is that you have to stay in control of your itinerary. Use TripAdvisor in particular. You choose a restaurant, you choose something to do. A good hotel is your best friend. I haven't read the whole thread but I can give some tips.
Never ever let the lady, Boris, or the agency set the agenda.
Have I ever met a girl who wanted to stay on site and was real?
No, never, ever and never. If a true Ukraine girl likes you she will hate that you waste money on a site and most of it goes to Boris. She has enough schmoes who want sexy chat or endless letters. If a girl, for any reason, ever says she has to stay on the site and communicate with you there, bye.
I'm happy to source this out for you before you get taken for a few thousand.
TomZ wrote "She is going to run up the bill $300-$500"
how is that even possible??? maybe $100 on the high end for 2 or 3 people. Ive had dinners for 10 people at under $150.
I took staff out a few weeks ago to nice authentic Italian restaurant(real Italian chef)in Cherkasy. There were 5 of us and we
didnt skimp. we had bottle of cognac and vodka as well as beer, appetizers, main course, dessert and still under $100.
I just cant imagine any situation in which, unless you are retarded, drugged or somehow otherwise completely impaired, that the above $3-500 scenario
besides, thats just too much work for the lady. menus, kickbacks from that menu. The only thing Ive seen that comes close was in Kharkov in which
a couple restaurants had "loyalty cards" in which anyone, not just ladies, got a 10%"rebate" when they would bring foreigners to dinner and they paid.