Yes Toad I don't understand a prenuptial agreement and I never will understand it!!!
"Marriage is the most demanding contract any person ever signs.", this is very familiar to the business bargain "you give me, I give you, as the result all have their profit".....brrrr.....relations between a man and a woman should have romance, and I think that without romance such relation lose their idea, their soul!!!
It is like you hire an actor to play to role of your "wife".....sorry this is how I see it.
Pitchka,
Two people can have more romance in their marriage than anyone else in the world, but it is still a marriage contract certificate that they signed...with all the legal and financial implications it has.
Validating the contractual aspects of marriage does not negate, antagonize or stand in the way of romance.
Quite the contrary, when the married couple have understanding and agreement about money and other legal obligations of marriage, the romance increases.
Those who bury their heads in the sand and sweep the less romantic aspects of marriage under the carpet are irresponsible fools who deserve the failure that awaits them.
Why is it so hard for you to acknowledge marriage for what it is?
I understand your lack of life experience surely plays a part on your misguided position....but even you can learn from other people's experiences and knowledge. It won't hurt you.
The simplest way to describe it is a financial and legal contract with romance, sex and hopefully a common vision of what these two people want to make our of their lives.
Toad, as I already mentioned, it's so easy to say that I don't have enough life experience, but it's OK I can live with that opinion, I heard too many times from people...sometimes they had no right to say that. But I can live with that!!:)
I see marriage as a life of 2 people, where they try to compromize on things they have different opinions, and where they enjoy things both like. And Marriage Contract for me is like an instruction...you have so many, I have so money, you have to do this or that and me this or that. OK I know it's just a generalization. But luckily myself and my boyfriend are spontaneous, and neither of us can live to any instructions or rules...and I enjoy this very much!!! From people I see around, those who have ever signed a contract (yes there are such people here too, who do this) feel miserable when it comes to reality what the contract is... Maybe they have a bad contract, I mean wrongly composed, but I personally like to live without any instructions above me. Today I want to spend 100 grivnas (20 dollars) on something (a picture, a dress, something else, which not always should be for family usage, just for my pleasure)...and if according a contract I can't do that, I feel miserable, and I can't predict all my wishes...as I said I'm spontaneous:)
I may like to stay at home, and next month I would like to start working, and later I would like to work at home and in the office (just an example, as for now I'm rather happy with me working at home, not only about the house, but really working) and nobody can say what I will want!! I just follow 2 things, Rule # 1. I do what I like if that doesn't ruin rule #2. Rule # 2. I will never do something that will hurt my boyfriend or our relations. And that's all!!! :)He follows the same rules (which can't be called really rules, they are not written or signed, it's just out wishes). And we're happy!!:)
Ptichka as far as i understand a pre-nuptial is more a contract of who gets what when the marriage ends, not somuch a contract who does the dishes.
As some women (and some men i heart) see marriage as an industry where one pretence love in order to get lots of money for little work. This is known and makes some men scared of marriage/commitment, a pre-nuptial can than help in getting the money issues out of the way and both parties can be or must be more honest about their intentions (be love or other).
A sentence used by some is if you loved me you wouldn't want a pre-nup. The answer can be if you did love me you wouldn't mind a pre-nup. The L word has little to do with it. the marriage contract is one of the most intrusive/big contracts one ever does, for a car loan there is already a contract.
If it will never stop Ptichka, why is there a problem with a prenup. If someone has a problem with a pre-nup, then maybe they are the ones who are not thinking forever.
I think that those who think about a pre-nup already think there is a chance that the marriage will stop. and those who don't think about a pre-nup, hope for better:) Well it's my IMHO. Anyway I'm a complete optimist and you will never make me think about pre-nup or any other contract in a relation to be good...
Ptichka- I understand what you mean completely and for that reason I will not ask for one. But there are women here in the US that will marry a man and pretend to love him only to divorce him a couple of years later and try to take everything away from him that he's worked 25 years to get. Then she will move on to her next victim. If it happens to me, all I can say is that Toad and some others will get a good laugh and give me a few " I told you so's" while I'm hanging from a tree with a rope around my neck!
It is difficult to understand Ptichka but any marrage may break down and in America and other western countries the law very much favors women. It is part of the reason that marriage rates are down and the average marriage age is up here. Men are scared to lose everything they have. The truth is that when you get married, a man enters a legal agrement concering you assets. A pre-nup is only asking a lady to meet you half way.
If you and your future partner have 686.00 dollars US, which is 20,055.61 Rubles and you are renting a flat and take the metro bus to get around town then a pre-nuptial makes absolutely no sense to most people(like 88.34%) and what are things that people do not understand, something to speak against. Young people that are just starting out and plan to build a future together can see no sense in a property division contract and to them it is useless. Those with little or nothing have nothing to lose. Ask a single, wealthy, Russian business woman if she would like to protect her business and her assets from the possible lazy alcoholic she is about to marry and your input from her would be totally different than what most woman would say. If you wanted to know about the possible treatments for an astrocytoma perhaps a neurosurgeon would give a better response than your bartender.
Here is a question, do you agree that a pre-nuptial agreement encourages divorce, sort of like having a parachute so you can bail out at the first jolt of turbulence and if you go into this marriage with love and have children would you not want to take care of these your family. It seems to me people want to honor only part of the contract, the prenuptial. Let me ask you about the other part of the contact for better or worse, in good times and bad. I pledge to you with all my heart and being to love and support you in all ways, to my utmost capabilities, for the rest of our lives. UNTILL DEATH do we part.
Oh a commitment, truly the marriage vows come from a book called the bible remember that book and the vows are between the man the woman and the spiritual force of the universe. Then of course there is the contract with the state as well. Perhaps that is why it is so expensive to get divorced, a penalty for not honoring our vow, and our word.
I have been divorced, I would like to be able to live up to the sanctity of marriage this time around, and it is much easier to write about this than to live it.
I can understand Ptichkas’ view, she has those intrinsic values of the true romantic, about honor and fair play, and it is not her mind set to take advantage of or be taken advantage of by someone else.
Here is a familar mind set a man needs to protect his future assets because he is the man and the bread winner, yet mom stays home and does the majority of the work and I have some experience here being a single dad raising five kids by myself. I had two car lots and this was the refuge from the work and insanity at the house though very little time was spent there.
I would like to be clear here I think in some cases a pre-nuptial is valid protecting family land that is passed from generation to generation, protecting monies passed from family member to family member, people with assets already established in disproporionate amounts to what the spouse brings to the union. Still when you get to divorce court and you have a prenuptial the judge decides how much your wife gets for raising the children in a manner they have been acustomed too despite what your paper says! Hey, try to stay unattached from the family dog as well.
I started this link because I have experienced loosing all my possessions and funds to a woman who deceived me into marriage only to divorce me and take everything. So I know it is possible for this to happen again. We all like to believe in love, life long marriage and true happiness. I am an honest man who is pursuing a life long relationship and I will work very hard to make it happen, but it takes two to make marriage work. I am now 54 years old. It is too late in my life to start all over and again build up my life and financial security . I hate the idea of a pre-nup, but I also don’t like buying life and homeowners insurance.
If divorce laws were stricter, thus making it much harder to get a divorce, there would be less talk of pre-nups. But, where I live, a divorce can occur even if the other party does not wish for it to go forward. There is nothing in Maine law to stop a divorce, perhaps only slow it down.
So, if I decided to ever marry again, which I sincerely hope to do, it seems to me a pre-nup, no matter how distasteful it is, may be necessary. I hate the idea. It is hard to live in the 21st century!
Guys,
I think that no matter how many ways you present the pro-prenup arguments, Pitchka does not need to concern herself with it.
She has said many times she does not plan to marryu a western man or leave her country to live in some western land with anti-husband laws.
Hence, there is no need for her to worry about what we, western men with assets to protect , may need.
And Tim, keep the arguments going on this one for a while...The newbies to the forum who ask and need the info are too damn lazy to dig up past posts on this issue.
Frank I heard what you had to say and I can understand the dissapointment you are feeling but just get back in the saddle and ride, when you meet someone share some of your experiences privately with someone here you trust, just as a sounding board. Sometimes we have a hard time seeing the trees for the forest and too close to the action that is when a third party is always a helpful experience. I feel from all that I have heard here the Russian women are woman with great values and I have realized this with the limited experience here so far. So even if you do not pick women well in general, you have a great chance of getting the right one here at Fiance.com Be patient looking for a woman so you do not have to pick again when you are 59. I am sure you know this, i have been thriugh a very simalar experience to you as well and I was not even married to her. I will not be explaining this period.
Tim, I am so surprised at your attitude. Not that you would not get a pre-nup, but at you opinion about what everyone else thinks. If you choose to risk so much, thats fine, but some poeple here are risking there familay assets. Things to be past to there sons and daughters and it is not inconcievable that a FSU woman would lie about her love for you the same as any other woman would. Alot of people have worked hard to get where they are and it can be taking with one silly decission. I met a girl in Ukraine just now who I know would sign one if I asked her because as she said, she is not with me for the money so why shoulod she care. If you ask a girl and she get angree about it, maybe you should have second thoughts about what she wants from you. LOve, or your money? If she wants to be with you, everything you have is hers if you always stay together so why should it be a problem.
Hey Toady :o))
Im good thanks, Im a bit like the Russian bears mate, I hibernate for the summer though :o))
ID:
Im not actually against protecting myself mate, I just think that pre nups are cynical, thats all.
And for any woman who has to sign one, it must be quite insulting as I have never seen or heard of any pre nup that protected the poor partner !!!
Yes I have seen "intollerable cruelty" and its a sad inditement of what marriage has become these days !!
If they dont want to take the risk of losing what they have mate, then they dont need a pre nup, they need to stay single !!
Im good thanks mate :o))
Busy with renovating the house I just bought, and working in between, but fine :o))