Hi, ok I've been a lurked here for some time and made a few trips to Ukraine in the past. On my last trip I met a wonderful woman. We spent 16 days together mostly in my apartment (yes that's what I mean). I met her family and we got along great. She never once took me anywhere expensive if I didnt insist we go there. She dismissed the translator 2 hours into our first date because she said her English was good enough (and it was). She took care of me when I got sick with 3 days left and writes me every day from her jobs computer on my e mail account. Sounds perfect, right? Now the red flags. Before I left I told her I wanted to get her something nice because quite honestly I had saved thousands thAt I planned on spending. No interpreter, nearly all meals in my apartment for 2 weeks..... So she said it was important to her that she go shopping with her girl friends and tell them her boyfriend from the US gave her money to go buy clothes. Ok maybe so I asked what dresses cost. She wouldn't tell me. I asked several times then gave up. I gave her $250 sure that would be enough. She immediately exclaimed "it's not enough!" then before I could even say one word she says "this is too much". She didn't speak English well enough that it could not have been a mistake. I told her it was plenty for some nice clothes over there. The last two days after that we spent together and things were still perfect. I told her I was removing my profile and I wanted her to do the same. She agreed. Now I couldn't find where to remove my profile so I blanked it out and made it non searchable. 2 weeks later I asked why she had not done the same and she danced around "well you haven't removed yours, but the fact is my membership has expired and I can neither open other women's letters or send any. Before I left I asked her to come meet me next month in a beach resort. She has sent me photos of the bathing suit she has bought and all the arrangements are made but her profile pic is still up. She's a single mom 20 years younger than me too. So she's willing to sleep over, spend 2 weeks, be very close for that time yet her profile remains. She says she isn't talking to any other men. I e researched her name (I know it's not an alias from her passport) and can find no scams.
But there can only be one reason her profile is still posted, to meet more men, right? So do I can el the beach vacation and get most all of my money back and plan another trip over to meet other women? (some of which are still waiting from the last trip and I never made it) or do I go on the vacation and see what happens? She's very popular woman to write to with over 700 letters since last October but 150 or so of them are mine.
Ok, I'm all ears! Thanks.
You've only known her for a matter of weeks, she's only known you for a matter of weeks also, you're prepared to put all your eggs in one basket at this early stage, perhaps she's not ready to trust that you're the one just yet and is keeping her options open which she is fully entitled to do.
Because our two languages are so different, she could have made an honest mistake! However, she also could have seen the expression on your face, and quickly changed her story!!
The price of a dress varies greatly on the dress itself,,, 20USD to 20,000USD!! Avoid the higher end dresses!
Did you go along on the shopping trip, or was it a girls night out??
If this girl is the one you really want, you need to verify her sincerity . Remove your profile completely so she doesn’t have any excuses!!! Her removing her own profile, could be better proof than the time you spent together in the apartment!!
Even if she goes on a vacation with you, that is not 100% proof that she is genuine and sincere!! Not only do they have professional daters, and professional shoppers, but also professional vacationers!!! Yes,,, the women of Ukraine will sleep with a guy for a vacation!!
To get her to remove her profile, tell her, it’s important to you to have an exclusive relationship!! Any genuine, honest, and sincere woman should want the same!! If not, you are wasting your time!
Have you checked her out on fb or Vk???
Tom, are you sure you have charmed her enough to make her delete her profile from the site? Are you sure you are the one for her to live all her life together, if you are sure so make her sure and don't complain about such things as profile deleting. You told she saved you thousands dollars and you only gave her 250 for shopping for that, she took care of you and did you do the same equally? I can offer you a service called "estimate your chances" after which you'll have a quite clear understanding of the relationship you have now.
Tom truth is the agency owns her profile the only way they will allow her to remove it is if she is married or puts up a fight to remove it. truth is most letters and emails are done by the agency and not the actual girls. The agency a friend of mine was with would only remove her profile after she was married, she didnt even live in Ukraine any more but they still refused.
$250 for clothes is not enough (especially if she's talking to her girlfriends about having a foreign boyfriend). $1000 would have been worth the bragging rights.
I remember taking my fiance shopping (a few times) and $250 may have got her a pair of jeans and a shirt.
As for her profile. Well you just met her. She seems easy (first meeting = sex?) A girl with child at her age who did thatmight be doing more than office work for money. She'll keep her options open until you commit (for sure).
My fiance was exact opposite to yours. She made sure I knew that she would take her profile down and stop communicating to all men (chat, email, phone, in Ukraine, etc) on my second visit 4 months after our first visit. She did that without me asking. All agency girls know the rules, unless they are making money from their profile. My girl is very serious about marriage and smart about social things. I've met her friends and family. They all know about me and her friends all adore me (her words) and I can tell when we all hang out together.
$250 isn't anything if your wanting a real relationship. That's a meal with friends and family for one night at a nice restaurant in Ukraine... If you are serious you will up your gifts. All Ukrainians know a man with serious intentions offers serious gifts to match. Just wait until New Years! If you try to send $250 for that occassion she will see herself as your playtoy and nothing more.
You need to see her again and be more serious about her for her to remove her profile.
Wow ok thanks for the wake up call! The money wasnt to redo her house, just to buy her a present. She wouldnt tell me what the cost of a dress was and I truly tried to get her to say. The money was basically for a sun dress and a bathing suit so that she had what she needed on the vacation we are to go on next month ( a total of about $4500) for the hotel and plane tickets for her. We are going to the carebbean (sp, sorry). I thought tht was a reasonable amount of money for a gift. Not to wine and dine her family. To me just the fact she introduced me to her parents was a very positive note and that her parents were considered very succcessful and not average laborers made me even surer that she was serious. One thing that did ring true is that while she didnt really explain why her profile was still up she did say something about the agency answering letters in the future. It was for this group here though and not a pay per letter agency so I dont see how that makes them money. She said 2 other men had been there to see her but she had not gotten along with them. But 2 weeks of living together is like what, 6 months of dating?
Well I have taken your guys advice and I will not tell her I will cancel the vacation if her profile is not removed. Or I could just postpone the vacation until after I went to Kharkov next time and then could insist it be gone.
For what it's worth, I was talking with a woman in Kyiv a few days ago, who told me that shoes priced at $50 in the USA sell for $165 in Kyiv. And I think this is not such an unusual situation.
My acquaintance (not in any way involved in dating agencies, websites, or other such business) said she can't understand why things are so much more expensive in Ukraine. She pays a relative living in the USA to buy things for her and ship them over, to save on costs.
hi ya Tom,, $250 is weasel piss for woman's clothes even in ukraine, "seriously"
i love shopping myself and compare commodity's around the world,, hey i have to i am not rolling in bucks.
the girl was possibly been their straight up self, in her own capable way of speaking english.
i wouldnt hold to much to it, she possibly thought better of it not to hurt your feelings in the end.
sorry dude your USdollar doesn't buy much anymore.
the profile stuff, well hell its awesome you cracked something possibly good from a agency.
but hey your own insecurity's over this will possibly stuff you up, dont worry about some backward agency, profiles and letter counts. if anything use it to your advantage.
when i started this Tom i to was uncomfortable about girl holding onto their profile.
it didnt take long for me to u-tune on this, now i think the total opposite.
its really our own insecurity's that push such and wow "do men have them".
hey she just may be writing to others, so what let her go for it, let her be sure she will be happy with you.
worst scenario if theres going to be problems you want them to show sooner then later.
so forget the profile stuff, give her the room to stuff up or see you are right for each other, dont be afraid of it,.
you want to know if she prefers you over others dont you.
take your meeting for what it is and go forward, either it will work or not, show her support not suspicion or controlling.
a sure stuff up for most men is been a controlling moron and having insecurity issues.
secondly we want a girl to choose us over all others because she likes your particular character.
thats what makes a great binding relationship ever lasting, so give her the space.
i didnt question any of this stuff with my girl, i actually said to her to write to others so there ya go.
then never worried about it, whatever happened happens, i wanted her to be sure about me.
so enjoy.
best of luck
What has more meaning, you demanding of her, repeatedly, to remove her profile, to the point where you won't shut the phuck up about it, or her, at a point in the future, deciding one day that you are the one and she removes her profile of her own free will?
It seems you are besotted about the bloody profile, she's mentioned about the agency answering letters, she's been honest enough to admit to two other men visiting her, do yourself and her a favour, forget about the bloody profile and get on having a relationship!
Tom,,,,, she may not be able to remove every profile on every website that her agency put her on, but until she tries and stops using the agencies,, she will be nothing more than an agency girl. If she wants a future with you,,, especially if she knows it’s important to you to have an exclusive relationship, she will remove her profile(s) on her own!
Sometime in the future, you may want to propose to her,,, how could you do that while she is still writing to, and meeting other men??? What kind of woman are you looking for??????
Admitting that her agency will write letters for her in the future, does not make her honest! Being a member of an agency, makes her a willing participant in fraud!!!
I did my share of shopping in Kiev, and I didn’t find that the prices were any more expensive than where I live!! One reason why I went along with it, is because we were finding good deals. I spent a lot of time in three of the larger malls in Kiev, so I did the grand tour!
I wouldn’t make a big deal out of the shopping either way,,,, just try not to talk about it! You can’t buy their love, but you can’t be a cheapskate either.
Wow apal1 I better put my boots on! Let me get this right... You are going to send a girl you dated for a few weeks and won't remove her profile at least $1000 for new years? You should just stick with hookers. You can get good ones for $50 over there. That's like a month of dates!
Kiwi sorry I don't wear or buy women's clothes. I asked her like 20 times what things cost and she didnt want me to go shopping with her. She would not tell me. I took my best guess. I then asked a friend who is a female interpreter. She said that should be plenty for a casual dress and a bathing suit.
I don't want a woman that doesn't want me, but I don't need to drop 8 or 10 $6000 trips over 2 years to find there's 3 other guys doing the same thing at the same time. Not insecurity, common sense. If she wasn't interested she should just say so. I passed on 7 other girls in the same city I had been speaking with.
Kiwi sorry I don't wear or buy women's clothes. I asked her like 20 times what things cost and she didnt want me to go shopping with her. She would not tell me. I took my best guess. I then asked a friend who is a female interpreter. She said that should be plenty for a casual dress and a bathing suit.
I don't want a woman that doesn't want me, but I don't need to drop 8 or 10 $6000 trips over 2 years to find there's 3 other guys doing the same thing at the same time. Not insecurity, common sense. If she wasn't interested she should just say so. I passed on 7 other girls in the same city I had been speaking with.
That's why I kept asking lonely. We had talked about no others before meeting her parents. She was happy to agree then but as I said I didn't follow the whole agency explanation despite trying. You are also right lonely, living in California rather than say Iran or France the idea seems to me to spend 3 weeks or a month together and if things are still great get engaged. Then you have 6 months of BS getting stuff approved. Then she has 6 months to use her visa, so that's another YEAR and perhaps 5 more 2 week trips living together. Then when she gets here you live together another 3 months. What's that? A total of 6 months living together! People get married after dating a year or 2. Don't you imagine living with someone 6 months gives you more insight to them than playing grab ass on Saturday night for 18 months?
So let's see, we spend another week together here.... 2 more in August..... Now I'm thinking about getting engaged... So I go buy a $6000 ring on top of 2 $3000 trips and a $6000 vacation not to mention apals $1000 new years present, while she wants to keep her options open? Um common sense anyone? It's more like when leaving I tell her I'll be back to Kharkov in August and I'll be sure to reserve a few days for her among the other women I've come to meet. Either she wants us both to be exclusive or not. The "you don't see others and I'll see if I want to or not" is crap. It's the old goose and gander deal.
Right on Tom!! The girls and the agencies would just love it, if men ignore the obvious! It’s not about insecurities it’s about reality!
Most or all of the women over there, know full well about the reputation of the agencies. Perhaps some don’t have any other option when it comes to finding someone and join them! They need to do something, even if it’s only a small token of good faith, to show they are not an agency girl. And just sleeping with a man comes too easy for them,,, that’s not really proof!
Of course, the more time you spend with them the better! But they must realize that it is not the same as normal dating, you can’t be there every weekend. You must make the most out of the time you have together!! Does she spend all of her free time with you while you are in her city??
What’s good for the goose is good for the gander! I agree! I don’t ask any more from them, than I am willing to do myself,,, no double standards! Every guy must understand,,, there is a lot of “test driving” going on every day in the FSU,,, and I would pull the keys on her if I really cared for her!!
To the guys who say; let her do what she wants and just wait for her to pick you?? How many life times do we have??? If she is taking her good ol’ sweet time choosing a man, dating as many as she can,,, she could resume that same activity once in the US. Don’t we want a girl we can trust and respect???!!! Once you have met the one you want and love, do you really want to lay awake at night wondering if the next man she writes to and meets, is also sleeping with her??
Tom,,, apal didn’t give bad advice, but it’s better suited for what or who he is looking for! He wants “Top Shelf” and he is willing to pay a lot more for it!
I want a simple woman, and if she happens to be pretty,,, well that’s a real bonus.
The girls and the agencies know most of us are more generous, and they use that against us!!
“Don’t you want to please me??????” Don’t you want me to be happy???? It’s when they use that on every guy they meet, that’s when they become scammers and pro daters!
$6,000USD for an engagement ring?? Ouch! Be very sure of your girl!!
Would I send a girl $1000 for new years? Hmn, that's 7 months away. If by then you can't figure out if the relationship is worth something... than it's not.
I am giving you straight advice. But if by the end of your next 'venture/vacation' she doesn't remove her profile from each website? Than she is keeping her options open and so should you. And if her profile is still up at new years I wouldn't think she would deserve much more than flowers and chocholates and a letter of thanks for the good time.
It does sound as if your relations are not settled. I wouldn't recommend the expense of the vacation until you were more sure. Go on a less expensive trip to Yalta or Turkey. And by the end of your next visit, it would be good to bring up the subject of her profile. If she's on this website, she isn't getting chat or letter writing kickbacks from her agency. But you are right, if she keeps her profile open AFTER your next visit its a big red flag.
As for shopping expenses in Ukraine, just don't second guess the real picture of the Ukraine economy and figure "Oh they don't make any money there, so I will send less money..."
Having a foreign boyfriend, fiance, husband is a status symbol of support they can't get from the local guys who can only afford Vodka, Cigarettes, a trip to McDonalds and a romp in the sack.
As I said $250 won't impress anyone, but of course it helps. It might not send her off to her favorite mall store (all Ukraine girls have a really real favorite store) to buy a complete outfit (shoes, purse, shirt, pants and accessories). Think Macy's or Nordstrom prices for anyone in the US. Prices are the same across the world and the want is still there. It's just that Ukraine businesses don't have a minimum wage to pay employees and they can take more advantage of workers.