Western countries have demanded that Russia put pressure on Ukrainian rebels to allow unhindered access to the site of Thursday's Malaysia Airlines crash.
Dutch PM Mark Rutte said he had told Russian President Vladimir Putin that time was "running out" to show he could help. Most crash victims were Dutch.
The US and Britain also told Russia full access to the area was needed.
International observers have had their movements restricted by pro-Russia militiamen who control the crash site.
In a news conference on Saturday, Mr Rutte said he had had an "intense" phone call with Mr Putin.
"I told him 'Time is running out for you to show the world that you have good intentions','' Mr Rutte said.
He added that Dutch people were "furious" at pictures of bodies being carried across the open country, and called on the Russian president "to show that he will do what is expected of him and will exert his influence".
German Chancellor Angela Merkel also spoke to Mr Putin on Saturday, urging his co-operation.
Prime Minister David Cameron and his Australian counterpart Tony Abbott agreed the two countries would apply "further pressure" at the UN Security Council "for swift and unhindered access" to the site, Mr Cameron's office said.
British Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond said: "The world's eyes will be on Russia to see if she delivers on her obligations."
US Secretary of State John Kerry discussed the disaster in a phone conversation with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov.
Mr Kerry made clear that the US was "very concerned" over reports that bodies and debris from the site had been removed or tampered with, the state department said.
On Friday US President Barack Obama said the plane had been destroyed by a missile fired from a rebel area, and that insurgents would not be capable of carrying out such an attack without Moscow's support.
Russia denies any involvement and has rejected Western allegations that it is stoking the Ukraine conflict.
To many people on here are jumping on the bandwagon before they have the full facts in front of them. the Russian military ask 10 Question which I found interesting. I think that the Ukraine Government does have something to answer here too it just not the Russians.
TEN QUESTIONS FOR THE UKRAINIAN AUTHORITIES
1. Immediately after the tragedy, the Ukrainian authorities, naturally, blamed it on the self-defense forces. What are these accusations based on?
2. Can Kiev explain in detail how it uses Buk missile launchers in the conflict zone? And why were these systems deployed there in the first place, seeing as the self-defense forces don’t have any planes?
I found this that could answer this question number 2
3. Why are the Ukrainian authorities not doing anything to set up an international commission? When will such a commission begin its work?
4. Would the Ukrainian Armed Forces be willing to let international investigators see the inventory of their air-to-air and surface-to-air missiles, including those used in SAM launchers?
5. Will the international commission have access to tracking data from reliable sources regarding the movements of Ukrainian warplanes on the day of the tragedy?
6. Why did Ukrainian air traffic controllers allow the plane to deviate from the regular route to the north, towards “the anti-terrorist operation zone”?
7. Why was airspace over the warzone not closed for civilian flights, especially since the area was not entirely covered by radar navigation systems?
8. How can official Kiev comment on reports in the social media, allegedly by a Spanish air traffic controller who works in Ukraine, that there were two Ukrainian military planes flying alongside the Boeing 777 over Ukrainian territory?
9. Why did Ukraine’s Security Service start working with the recordings of communications between Ukrainian air traffic controllers and the Boeing crew and with the data storage systems from Ukrainian radars without waiting for international investigators?
10. What lessons has Ukraine learned from a similar incident in 2001, when a Russian Tu-154 crashed into the Black Sea? Back then, the Ukrainian authorities denied any involvement on the part of Ukraine’s Armed Forces until irrefutable evidence proved official Kiev to be guilty.
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A U.S. official confirmed to The Washington Post on Saturday that Russia supplied advanced missile launchers to separatist groups in Ukraine, and that those launchers were moved back across the border after the downing of Malaysia Air Flight 17. The Russian government has so far denied sending weapons to the rebel groups, and the rebels have denied possessing them, though they have boasted online about shooting down other aircraft.
According to the report by journalists Michael Birnbaum and Karen DeYoung, U.S. intelligence officials learned "a little more than a week ago" that Russia was attempting to move the weapon systems, known as the Buk-M1, into Ukraine. Several videos have surfaced over the last two days of the mobile launchers being moved on Ukrainian roads, including back toward the Russian border, though those videos were unconfirmed. This would appear to be the first direct accusation from American sources tying the disaster to the Russian government.
Although Ukraine has their own versions of the Russian-made Buk missiles, the government claims they did not leave any behind in separatist controlled-areas. If true, the missiles could likely have only come from the other side of the Russian border.
Outraged world leaders heaped pressure on Russia Sunday to press Moscow-backed rebels in eastern Ukraine to allow investigators proper access to the crash site of the Malaysian MH17 jet.
Rescue efforts were in disarray as armed gunmen in fatigues and balaclavas refused to allow international monitors full access and the grisly remains of some of the 298 passengers killed have yet to be removed.
Ukraine has warned that the rebels, who Kiev and the US have accused of blowing the plane out of the sky with a missile, were "hours away" from removing key evidence across the Russian border.
As fears grew that evidence was being tampered with world leaders voiced their frustration with Moscow, pushing East-West ties to crisis point after months of discord over the Kremlin's interference in ex-Soviet Ukraine.
Martin: You are catching on as to these are the acts of criminals and why a cease fire is inappropriate. These people do not have legitimacy. A country does not give up sovereignty to criminals and traitors regardless of external pressure. To do so only creates a breakdown in civility and lawlessness.
So did USA consider 9/11 to be a crime or an act of terror?
They know who did this, they know who pulled the trigger and/or who ordered the pulling of the trigger, send in Special Forces to "take out" those responsible and extradite them to Malaysia where:
Capital punishment in Malaysia applies to murder, drug trafficking, treason, and waging war against Yang di-Pertuan Agong (the King). Recently, the law has been extended to include acts of terrorism. Any terrorists, and anyone who aids terrorists, financially or otherwise, are liable to face the death penalty. Foreigners are not exempt from the death penalty.
My postings have only addressed what is clearly criminal, treasonous within the border of Ukraine and what is a concerted act of war against Ukraine. The crimes against the world is more complex and should Malaysia consider it an act of war then that ball is there court. Putin is the legitimate head of a recognized government, therefore more complex than that of the traitorous Ukrainians and the confirmed act of war by Russia against Ukraine.
I've got some Dutch guests staying at my place at the moment, Netherlands (who lost 189 nationals) is going crazy about this sort of despicable behaviour and we all know who is behind it ... Putin must be seriously shitting himself:
"Armed rebels forced emergency workers to hand over all 196 bodies recovered from the Malaysia Airlines crash site and had them loaded Sunday onto refrigerated train cars bound for a rebel-held city, Ukrainian officials and monitors said."
Earlier, driving home its assertion that the Boeing 777 was hit by a Russian SA-11 radar-guided missile, Ukraine's Western-backed government said it had "compelling evidence" the battery was not just brought in from Russia but manned by three Russians who had now taken it back over the border.
please give the details about the passenger jet that the Ukraine government shot down accidently in I think 2001 ?
to others please explain?
How IS putin ment to let investigators into the crash site of Malaysian airline
WHEN ITS NOT IN HIS COUNTRY ?
what would putin have to gain by shooting down this passenger jet ?
why would he want to shoot down just one jet in Ukraine .
THIS IS MY TAKE ON THE WHOLE THING ?
Ukraine is paranoid about Russian spy planes and the Ukraine government thought it was a Russian plane and shot the thing down . a very simple mistake .
there is no reason the Russian government would do that and orders would not have come from putin . why? are you all so bloody crazy ... and like my wife agrees all you Russian hatters should quit looking for fsu wives your dream of a glamour girl should be over Ukraine / Russia same same similar culture similar people .
WITHOUT A DOUBT UKRAINE GOVERNMENT SHOT THIS PLANE DOWN
Thank you Martin you are making my point. When he invaded Kuwait , it did not stand. His regime was thwarted under the rules of international war. Waiting 10 years was the mistake. Now, people in Iraq are looking around,,,, "Where are the Americans and the Brits?" Gone again, the only thing different about Lurch is that he is in a suit and not wearing his fatigues with the sleeves cut off, the other guy put down his free base pipe and picked up golf clubs ,,,,, and the world suffers without western leadership.
You cannot be the legitimate head of a recognized government if you rig the elections, like Putin did almost every time. He may have many fans now that he thinks he is Napoleon, but at the time of his elections a good deal of people hated him there.
Dutch Banks Respond to Reports of MH17 Victims' Looted Credit Cards
Reports that credit cards have been looted from the victims of Malaysia Airlines MH17 have prompted Dutch banks to take “preventative measures” against possible fraud, the Dutch Banking Association said in a statement Saturday. International outrage has erupted over the treatment of the bodies and evidence in the 16-square-mile debris field of the plane that was shot down over contested Ukraine airspace Thursday.
Alexander Borodai, the prime minister of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic, said Saturday that local residents may have used the credit cards of the victims. The victims’ next of kin will be reimbursed for any credit card “abuse,” according to the Dutch Banking Association. Of the 298 passengers who perished aboard MH17, 193 were Dutch.
“The one emotion most of us who study Russia never associate with the men of the Kremlin is panic.
They’re not the type. They’re more like mobsters, prone to say “we have a problem,” rather than to freak out.
They think everything has a solution, although sometimes that solution might mean someone has to take nine grams of lead behind the ear.
They do not raise their voices — my experience is that most Russian tough-guys are mumblers, not yellers — and they get things done, even if the final outcome might lack a certain, say, elegance.
That’s why it’s unusual to see the government of Vladimir Putin, and maybe even Putin himself, panicking over the downing of Malaysian Airline Flight 17. For the first time in a long time, maybe even since Putin’s first election to power, the Russian regime has a problem it cannot solve, one that will cost the Kremlin in both money and reputation.
First, let’s review what’s happened, and use the real-world version of events, rather than the paranoid, flaky stuff coming out of less responsible news outlets (like, say, all of the ones in Russia.)
Malaysian Air Flight 17 was crossing the Ukraine-Russia border when it was blown out of the sky. We have a high degree of certainty (and probably more inside the governments of the US and NATO) that the plane was downed with a BUK anti-missile system. In fact, it’s starting to look like there was a BUK battery in the area when the airline was destroyed.
We have a mountain of evidence that the Russians were up to their necks in this. The BUK is a Russian system, found in both Ukraine and Russia, but it looks like the Russians brought some over the border, along with Russian military intelligence guys — the men actually running this “partition Ukraine” operation – and they taught some of the locals, including transplanted mercenary “separatists,” how to use them. The thing is, the BUK is really too complicated to use without adult supervision, and that’s especially true of a battery.
And now we get to the panic. Evidence is mounting not only that the BUK that killed MH17 came from Russia, but that the firing on the airliner was either supervised or ordered, or even operated, by Russian personnel.
If this is the case, the “lone rebel with an itchy trigger finger” theory goes out the window, and the “Russia is running a reckless and undeclared air war inside Ukraine” theory comes into sharp focus. Suddenly, an act of terrorism becomes an act of interstate war, directed with subterfuge and deniability (what my colleague John Schindler has dubbed “Special War”) with the goal of dismembering the Ukrainian state.
Putin, I’m sure, was briefed ahead of time and told that such an accident could never happen.
No, Mr. President, we will sweep any Ukrainian military jets from the sky. Yes, Mr. President, we will control their airspace, and paralyze them, until they accept partition, as we did with Crimea. No, Mr. President, we are professionals and there is no chance of error or detection. We have trained to fight Americans, this will be a piece of cake.
Russian brides > Main Forum > Malaysian Airlines MH17 Shot Down over Ukraine Donetsk Region by Pro Russia Putin Supporters. 295 Dead