you got it right. sometimes i confuse myself but you got it. she was on our sight here but from the katrin agency which was removed. but she was also on elenas models with different profile at the same time. was she a scammer i do not know for sure . but i would bet that the agencys use and sell portfolios to each other like heads of cattle and maybe these women do it for a living or maybe they dont even know it is being done. i just cant comprehend how these sweet innocent young women get so much mail and they are still over there. almost everyone i write nice letters to are never interested and if they do reply it is a form letter or half the questions dont get answered. maybe i am cursed. it is a crapshoot.
Yes JMO I am coming to the same conclusion. Plus all the messages I have received via Fiancee.com have been overweight, ugly or pushy. One wrote me a long email obviously somewhat canned stating she wanted to get married and didn't want a penpal or long email correspondence. Sure right, no problem. We'll get hitched and figure it out later, I wasn't doing anything else tonight.
I also thought I might want to buy some swampland in the everglades!
I am still tempted by Elena's. $95 for 50 addresses doesn't sound too bad. And just as you received a form email you know I am pretty much going to do the same thing. Writing 50 individual emails would be, to put it mildly, tiring!
To tell you that I am confused is an understatement! I think I will try both methods (emails & tour) and probably someone is going to get hurt somewhere down the line. I guess that is life. It would be tragic though to spend thousands of dollars on a trip and come up zip, nada, nowt. Still from what I am hearing here it looks like the odds are in my favor that some good will come out of it. We'll see.
and what you are going to do with those 50 addresses? get 50 pushy replies hehe.. they will sell you 50 email address of katrin or similar agency girls, or similar. so, the agency will reply to you and get you to pay them for correspondence. here all those agency can not do this. if you see any suspicious email contact customer service. as far as I know on fiance.com girls with private email give you their private email address without problem. agency now days should be an internet club for women without internet, helping them get online, educate them how to get noticed on all those dating sites. help them to get in touch with men from around the world. this is what women pay for over there. well as we can see a huge amount of agencies think they can make money without doing any work, and not being caught - writing letters by robots or professional writers. well, we will catch them. just ignore all those stupidly written letters, and go on to the real once. it is not difficult to recognize. there are many agencies who provide good service for the ladies and you. and if the work via fiance.com it is all free for the members.
Thank you Olegnay very good advice. I appreciate it. I am now becoming disillusioned with Elenas Models especially as I received 3 emails tonight from Fiancee.
1 was for friendship (comparing cats)
1 was a complete farce (51 and like the back of a bus)
1 was wonderful.
Wonderful has only had 1 letter since August and she chose me!!!
Me a schmuck from England.
Oh well, there is no accounting for taste.
THANK GOD!!! :) :)
My friend TimH, who was a regular contributor to this forum met his first wife on Elenas Models. In fact (he has already weitten this in this forum so I don't think he will mind my repeat) if you look on that agency's homepage - toward the bottom on the right side - you will see a picture of the girl that TimH met, fell in love with and married. They were divorced some time ago.
Elenas Models do have wonderful window dressing. And the web site seems particularly concerned with scammers. But if you look up your lady in the scammers list and do not fin her - it is easy to get a false sense of security that she is legitimate. In reality it is very easy for a lady (or a guy for that matter) to set up a false female identity complete with beautiful pictures and a name not listed on any scammer sheet - and start scamming LOTS of guys before anyone has a clue. A fellow I work with came close to being scammed for $800 (the old "I'll get a visa and an airline ticket to visit you if you'll just send me the money" trick). This same woman had written to me - and I recognized the scam - but my buddy was nearly convinced because he did not find her on any scammer site.
As far as I am concerned fiance.com is the best company at what they do.
As another writer wrote - they do allow free discussion (they do delete trolls of course) that supports even their competitors. i think they do that partly because they have confidence in their product and partly because they know that we western men are likely to be using more than one service anyway. So why not be supportive?
I really like this agency. And they certainly aren't paying me to say that.
het jet man,
you are right and i feel fiance .com is the best for the money but it is actually the membership as we me you and all of us who actually do the policing and watch dogging for the sake of the membership. izi , have fun.
Well this email thing is starting to piss me off. All I have had so far are overweight, ugly Ivanesses or dead ends. I tried searching and you end up with a bunch of women who want someone in Europe and max age 45.
I'm 49 and I don't want to live in Europe again I had enough trouble getting out 20 years ago. That search engine definitly needs to be tweaked. At least on the Elenas Models engine you don't waste your time with searches for women who aren't the slightest bit interested in you because of age. I understand that their 'clientele' isn't any more trustworthy than anyone elses but the info and search engine are really good.
It is strongly starting to look like the only way this is going to work is by bombing over there and checking everything out personally.
AFA is looking very good right now.
What the hell happened to all the 35 to 38 year olds who don't mind an older more experienced man. What is more, the thought of taking on someone elses teenager who might possibly want to go to college doesn't thrill me!
I'd like to find a life partner not an appointment in bankruptcy court.
that is exactly why i went over their twice already. this e-mail situation is a big dead end for me. some guys here it supposedly has worked for. but i bet they are very few and far in between. i have said this before, the women that i have met at socials in kyiv were pretty much disillusioned with e-mailing. they know that 90 percent of the men are not going to make the journey over there and most just dont have the time to go down or hang out at the agency. this is what the ukrainian women have told me personally. i love when the women on this site tell me we have nothing in common and good luck to me looking for my soulmate. at least i know where i stand with them . it is the only beleivable and honest reply that i can get. i have traded a few letters recently with a women from st.petersburg .russia. i decided to take a chance with her because i am definitly attracted to her. and she says she is waiting for my reply. so i sent her some flowers and a fucking cake for her and her daughter. this is against my policy but i said so what . well it has been a week since i placed the order and it is still being processded. i think by now the flowers are wilted and the cake tastes like shit. she is in the city so everything is close to her .but i am sure there is a very good excuse waiting for me. i am about done with this scene. so iz. how much is swampland going for in florida? jmoluv
In the same way that Eastern European tend to put on make-up - literally to put on a "good face" many of, even those who speak quite well, are very self conscious about their english writing. Some of the best may never write back to you for that reason alone.
And I have to admit - it seems that I get a few automatic negative responses very quickly because i am just slightly over 45. Fortunately I have a fairly youthful picture (and yes its recent). But I notice thatI have to write a few more letters than someone just under 45 might.
45 seems to be the cut-off age for many. Those who have children - and scammers from ANY web site of course will go higher.
Try the Socials if this method does not work for you. THEY DO work.
Yep, the more I look at this the more I agree. What I am beginning to see is that these ladies no more want a guy 15 years older than them than does an American woman. I don't care about the alcoholics and wife beaters that is starting to look like bunk. Even if there are many more women out there it doesn't mean that they will be interested in me. It is the same old story.
I think that at least going over there meeting face to face you have a chance of meeting someone serious. Afterall I would think that sometimes these girls have to travel some to get to where the socials are being held. Time and money both for them and me. It means you are not screwing around. The email thing should come afterwards.
Soon as this subject comes up I get hives. It is fraught with problems. "Your not my dad", "you can't tell me what to do", "can I have a car", "I need money for school" etc etc etc
I am looking for a pretty wife from 35 to 40 preferably without kids that has an education and a career that can be resumed in the USA. I bet that is what most of us want. Will it, can it happen though?? Perhaps $4500 and a few socials will answer that question. I doubt I'd do it twice though just too darn expense to play with.
I really appreciate all your inputs VERY informative.
some advice i can give you that was given to me by the owners of european connectins romance tours for looking for the right lady.yes they invite only their own ladies to their own socials which they say and i beleive are so called screened. which means if they pull any shit on men, they are canned and they do do that. some of their women travel in from outside towns to these socials and most that i met do not like e-mailing. so what i am getting at is this. if you are a city man . i mean you live and work in the hustle and bustle of congestion you might want to meet and marry a city woman . if you are a suburban or man of the country you might want to meet a woman from the smaller villages and towns. it makes the transition for them easier when and if the move is made. i hear that the smaller town and village ladies are way less hard to please and less demanding. you can e-mail women through the company i said above and invite them to a social that your tour is going to if it is within a reasonable distance and they will be there. just talk through the company and they will call her to be there. it is that simple. and it can be more than one girl . if one does not work tell her there another one standing behind her. i dont know what these women can do for me , but i sure as hell know what i can do for them. we dont want to move over there but i think they want to move over here. there site and tour company is russian ladies .com jmoluv
Excellent points, I agree with you completely. I am still trying the email approach though. Last night I bought 50 (I think) addresses from Elenas Models. I am impressed by that site because you can plug in what you are looking for and it will only feedback women who are interested in a man your age. This is going to save a lot of BS. I am 49 and I saw a couple of women there that are 40 that are absolute knockouts! Those are reasonable expectations. 10 years younger is do-able. Trying to find someone 15 or 20 years younger is not reasonable. And anyway when you are 60 and she is 45 what will happen. VERY hard to believe. I know there are all kinds of success stories but I bet they are the exceptions. On the other hand going over there and meeting somone 35 for an adventure I can see. Hey if it looks like it will workout into something long term great. However, I doubt it. Especially when you factor in "the western effect". She will change, there is no question in my mind. Just how much is relative. But I can see a situation where an honest American man makes an effort (like we are all doing), finds a beautiful younger Russian woman, brings her home only to see her change before his very eyes as she is exposed to TV etc. What a waste!!!
I am going to try a 2 pronged attack. I have started my email campaign with Fiancee and Elena and will continue with A Foreign Affair tour.
The biggest question I have right now is which city? Some say stay away from St Pete and Moscow because the women are too sophisticated and spoiled by foreign visitors. Yet they are the most accessible, all the companies go there. I hear Kiev is jammed with scammers. Odessa maybe?? Yalta?
Incidentally this last 2 days I have been emailing back and forth with a very well preserved 45 year old. She is funny! It is a very relaxed conversation and makes a change. She has her own computer/connection and damn good English. Just wish she was 5 years younger.
Izifaddag, you might want to keep your expectations more realistic you act as though age is more important than your compatability stop looking for a statistic and enjoy the friends to be made. It is not easy and yes it requires effort and openess. I have been here a month and I am a large man in my upper 30s. I can not keep up with the mail I recieve and it because I am open to them all. You wil find that even those who at first do not look like they would care can and will with a little bit of effort. Good luck and let the inner beauty of these women work their magic on you not their age or trophy photos.
i personally i think wont do kyiv again. maybe it might work for you. but the city women i met there have sort of a westernized attitude. then again a city like kyiv they are more exposed faster to things by media and foreigners. it is the capitol. your comments on the age factor is something we all have had run through our minds here and it does merit thought. it seems the only men in america who are entitled to a much younger and beautiful are the men who are wealthy or who is a rock star. anyone else is a pervert. people turn heads to stare at you when you are out with a much younger women over here. at least where i am from. i think a fsu women is eventually going to catch on to things and realize she wont need you much longer when it is quite obvious that the women wear the pants over hear. not all of them men , but i would be sure it is in the backs of their minds. all you can do is be yourself and be nice . god will decide the rest. someone from this agency told me that maybe i am choosing only the most beautiful young women on this site. the person said if you would choose maybe a women in or arounf 40 with children i would get all the e-mails i ever wanted. LOL. my answer was why go over there to find that when it is here in my own town. legions of fat disgusting women with children who let themselves fall apart at such a young age. their idea of dressing up is a new hank williams t-shirt with a new pair of sweat pants. i joined this site because i want a younger attractive women . not a trophy . just someone who is very presentable in my eyes. but i do wonder if they will still find me attractive when i am 60 and they are only 45. i will never know.
jmoluv: My answer regarding Socials was really aimed at iz. Not you. I am well aware that you have attended Socials.
i have to admit - I have an absolute gem of a woman that I met through fiance.com while in Latvia. She is gorgeous and considerably younger than I am. Certainly beyond the limit refered to above. In fact I eventually dated four women. And the OLDEST was 18 years younger than I am.
What's more - I met two wonderful Moldovans through the Socials in Odessa - both of which would definitely love to come to the US with me and both of which ABSOLUTELY would qualify for "trophy" status. And they are each 22 years younger than I am.
It can be done. But they won't throw themselves at your feet and they go for you just because you are a western man and happen to show up.
I do agree that I will most likely receive some stares when I am with my much younger lady as she joins me in America; whereas I receive fewer in Eastern European countries. But let them stare. All I care about is the one next to me.
iz - seems to me that you have planned a perfect strategy. Yes - go for ths smaller cities of Ukraine, Odessa etc. Your opportunities are much better. For the reasons you mention avoid the bigger cities of Russian and Ukraine.
"my answer was why go over there to find that when it is here in my own town. legions of fat disgusting women with children who let themselves fall apart at such a young age. their idea of dressing up is a new hank williams t-shirt with a new pair of sweat pants. i joined this site because i want a younger attractive women . not a trophy"
I couldn't agree more.
I am not horribly overweight and not bad looking with a steady job in engineering for 7.5 years, my own beautiful condo in a great neihborhood, my own hair, a brand new mazda minivan and money in the bank. I have just spent 12 years married to a fat Cuban American, with terrible skin and bad eyes. She was constantly angry, couldn't make a living to save her life and was more interested in Star Trek than me. Not to mention her ridiculous religious pursuits, which was feminism incarnate in all its glory. Then she took half of everything I owned having not contributed dick. As Bruce Forsyth would say "good game, good game". (British TV star)
Now I am free and I don't want to be alone for my remaining years on this earth.
Apparently something has opened up that actually gives me a choice. Guess what Shaggy, I'M GOING TO MILK IT FOR ALL IT IS WORTH. Those daft, soft, warm and fuzzy concepts are not in my dictionary right now. Perhaps you are wiling to lower your standards I am not. I want someone at least 10 years younger than me, I don't particularly want to raise someone elses kids neither do I want to have to close my eyes and think of England everytime I climb into bed. Been there done that. Enough already.
If I have a choice of choosing betwen a "trophy", with a good education that can go to work here and contribute a joint financial future without the burden of teenage kids and the added legal complications that entails or someone 20 pounds (or more) overweight and a couple of kids, guess which one I will pick??
I can't believe you wrote that!
Now I need an aspirin and a lie down behind the fridge with my teddy bear :)
I will give you the benefit of my experience. 1st, this is the only site that I have complete trust in...I am 41, not bad looking, not much money. I have corresponded with 300 women, some stopped afetr 2 letters some after ten, either they or myself stopped. the women ranged from 20 to 36, I decided for marriage I wasn't going to go below 28...so I met 5 girls in various countries, they were all lovely, but with 4 the spark wasn't there, and then I met my fiance.....all of this has happened since I joined in March this year... maybe only 5% of my correspondants were scammers, and it never got to the stage of anyone ever asking me for money in 6 months....so all I can say is, this does work and I am the luckiest man in the world