We have wonderful documentaries here in the states also, Bowling for Columbine, and Fareheit 911 done by a fat ass that couldn't challenge a man mentally that is suffering from alzheimers. I just laugh my ass off at things that are passed for the truth and the lemmings just walk of the edge of the cliff believing.
ID's spelling may not be the best but I think you have misinterpreted what he has written.
Both our respective governments are guilty of having "Inadequate plans" before going to war,no matter how much icing is put on the cake,Blair and Bush told a hell of a lot of lies to their electorates!
The main reason for which was WMD.....where are they??????
interesting post!!......the Marshall Plan was nearly 60 years ago,are you really that insular that you have failed to read any European history since then?????
you are confussed shaggy. Watch something besides bushs speachs and maybe you will se how streached you are. If ignorance is bliss you must be a happy man. Nothing you say has any merit with my news and doco watching. Sure people say what you do all the time but then its proven to be shit. But as always you select you version of truth so live in you world, things are so happy there. And the american canidate is clouded in acusations of killing people himself. But who care because you like him he must be good. There are people talking about conscription and the government say it untrue. No one say they want to, they are just looking at the numbers. The asult may have gone well but all military tried to tell donald that after the assult it would talk more troops than the assult itsself. But what do tomy franks and colin powl know. Sure they are team players but they disagreed with the plains. Not because the assult would not work, but becaue the force required to maintain security afterwoulds was inadiquate. Do you watch anything beside political speaches shaggy
As far as the WMD'S, I think Mr. Putin may have some knowledge of their where abouts. My buck is in Syria, also, we forget the capability of the payload that a scud is capable to deliver. I guess after 1992 Hussien just gave up all his toys and went home. Doubtful.My premise to this war, which no war is popular is the attack on the US. It requires an organized intelligence community to
pull of the attacks of 911, not some loosely organized terriorist group like Al Qaeda. If that was the case Hamas and the PLO would have
done this years ago. It doesn't take much to be a weapon of mass destruction, just look at the dimensions of an ASROC missile, it is small but nuclear capable. This war is more than WMD's, in the long run they will be found and the outcome will surprise many.
Sometimes finding these weapons can be the same as finding gnat shit
in pepper. If it was so easy, how did Kruschev smuggle so many missiles into Cuba in 1961? My problem lies within the impotent UN
that again did nothing but serve up lame Rhetoric while giving Iraq
the opportunity to stone wall and dismantel weapons. Passing idiotic resolution after idiotic resolution, to a man who refused to let arms inspectors in and when he did, they were denied total access. It was
all window dressing without anything behind it. This is more than a search for weapons, but an expose' of a organization called the United Nations, which is nothing more than a front for a new world order and the creation of police states controlled by a few. It is amazing how little Americans pay attention to this. Are you people of different countries and cultures ready to give up your sovereignty and freedoms to a World Court composed of Judges from the UN? Spend some time reading the charter of the United Nations and it's agenda, if that doesn't make you scratch your head nothing will. So lets Execute Milosovich for his war crimes and pin a Medal on Saddam Hussein because he was an innnocent leader that was attacked by the great big bully of the United States. And if you believe that, then the UN has peace and freedom at the center of it's heart. Not likely.
We have proof and documentation that Sadam and his forces moved weapons and mislead inspectors. We have the mass graves, the proof he gassed his people (I think there are international laws broken here and last I checked it was a WMD). We have proof that his request to his government was to finde and make these weapons including the scientist hired to do so. We have proof the UN was breaking its own resolutions while allowing Sadam to torture and starve his people to death. We have still kept this action with less death (civilian (14500-16500) and our military) than any other action in history. You keep saying all this but you have less proof than I. I have never stated who I like in the Ukraine only that the election was rigged. In my view as in many americans I feel that without a conviction I cannot call a man I do not know a murderer. I assume you have some great proof of that as well. I think the poisoning of him is a little obvious but hey just politics right. My only observations is that the thousands of people in the streets must not be to far off. As far as news I watch 4 different news chanels so I can see all the different liberal spins. Yes I even watch the Communist News Network (CNN) mostly for the comedy. You may be narrow minded enough to folllow the news blindly but again share with us your great facts and solutions and maybe you can do a better job. Until then my suggestion remains put up or shut up.
"Sure people say what you do all the time but then its proven to be shit." Lets share that proof with the rest of us ok? Or is it maybe with the WMD in the desert somewhere. How many lifes killed qualify for WMD. Give me that number as I want to know. There are as many people killed in the streets of America each day as there is in Iraq. Again I speak from direct experience of conversations with my family members there and yes I trust there words 1,000,000,000 times more than any liberal reporter trying to make his money and fame from the death and dismay of otheres. The people there want us there and are thankful for what we have done. We have stoped the murder of thousands of inocent lives even counting the deaths related to the actions itself. Every statement I have made is based on news articals I have read from major agencies. Not the little liberal hate sites that are choking the web with there poor me...we didn't win again loosers. The world does not want communisum to return no matter what you call it. Our nations can not afford to throw our future away for the sake of liberal paranoia.
You will note that no where did I find the need to personally attack you. I guess when you have facts there is no need to slander the other personally but again people with such polarized views must grab for what they can. Try coming up with some proof to support your statements and then come back and school us to the new communisum.
Glad I understand him perfectly. He is mad because I made him look foolish days ago. He does not have any proof to back any of his statements. Of course hindsight is so easy to say that of course everything we did was wrong but with all those mistakes I again challenge anyone to find a more effective campaine. As far as spelling for our dear Id I was going for the phonic aussie drawl that matched his spelling. I am no speller either and my point was not his spelling. This has been dropped many times, I even sent an email to ID saying look we disagree on this and we were friends before so lets let it pass and yet here we are again.
Anyone who feels the need to personally attack another for their views is grasping to cope with the false reality in there brain. If you cannot stand the heat of a good exchange then maybe Id should find another place to share is half truths and personal attacks. I don't feel this is the place for such.
As far as waving my flag I will do it every time someone puts it down, sorry thats how I am. I welcome alls opinion but I think it could be done without the personal comments. Our words speak volumes more than we usually intend and I think all here can see those that use such practices are the ones ruining the forum.
I am not taking sides here....and as far as flag waving goes I am up there with the best of them,having served a few years in the military.
My point is and always has been is that the politicians........and by that I mean on ALL sides have done very little else but lie throught their respective teeth about this.
Why anyone should be surprised is beyond me because it seems to be a pre-requisite for getting into office.
I can tell you that the conflict in Iraq is without doubt the most unpopular war there has ever been according to most polls here in the UK.
About the US I will make no comment but it is interesting that on the evening news the Pentagon no less has released figures saying over 5000 troops have gone awol since it began.
I am not US bashing,and never would.....my time in the forces educated me to just how much this country depends on a solid relationship with the USA.However it is also wrong to claim that the level of support is higher than it actually is.
People in this country........and I suspect yours need no lies or fabrication to support a just cause.....we have both done plenty of that in the past,but what most object to is the lies.
" You can fool some of the people some of the time.....etc etc"
".....the Marshall Plan was nearly 60 years ago,are you really that insular that you have failed to read any European history since then?????
1) Politics is not an exact science - if it was, there was little need for discussions like this. After all, Math and Physics do not turn into that kind of discussions.
2) Politics is to a great degree based on feelings and opinions - likes and dislikes. Which to a great degree are formed when people are young. The people who were young in 1945 formed some opinions, when they produced children they influenced them to have the same opinions (some of those children then decided to revolt and have exactly the opposite opinions... - often influence by some wayward 'teachers' [real teachers + demagogues]).
Decisions made today are based on feelings created long ago.
-And, by the way, some recent events in the former Yugoslavia were based on feelings about a battle in the 1300s!!
'Historical events cast a long shadow!'.
I understand glad and I am sure there are those that don't want to serve and they have taken there actions not to. I honestly have not heard that so I can't comment but again I have not said anything in my post that I cannot give supporting information from credible sources and even my counts earlier on civilian and military losses are from very liberal sources. I am like everyone else making my best guess on the information available to us. I agree with you 100% that all political people no matter their best intentions lie for fun, for proffit, and as we all knowk for political gain. But they also have much more information than we do about it as well and for us to sit and critisize like we have all the answers is just as wrong and just as much of a lie. Especially those at the polar ends of the debate. I am like you I don't mind the jabs if they are at least based in some fact but to sit and call someone stupid and personally attack them because you dont agree with them is more than stupid but again I will not go there. I am guilty as anyone here about getting carried away and I have said some pretty bad things I was less than proud of but everytime I have I have apologized and moved on. I do not hold grudges and belive it or not most of my good friends are so liberal the stink of it we manage to understand that it does not change the quality of our person nor the ability to openly debate the topics. This is what freedom is about the open sharing of ideas and our rights to say them. I am a very strong supporter of human and political rights but at the same time there is a point when logic and rational thinking are lost. None of us can rationalize either side of this because both sides of the coin are full of death and turmoil. Sometimes you just have to make that judgement call and follow through. We can talk all we want and bad mouth anyone we want it won't change the events that have passed and it won't change our responsibility to follow through with what we have started. Mark my words history will look back on this and it will be very different than it is viewed now. I can't say who is right or wrong but I can say what my heart tells me is right and to bail on these people now would lead to the end of the world as we know it. Last figure I saw over 70 % of the American population still support the current operations. In the begining it was much higher. The media is the weapon of choice of terrorism and it has served them very well. When the media starts to show the whole story and the good as well as the bad then maybe the world will start to settle and learn to get along but as long as you have an organization that lives on the death and torture of others the will do all they can to keep the world as polarized as possible. Face it a world without termoil is a world without news stories.
I teach technology in education and one of the biggest misconceptions we still face today is people still believe if it is on TV or in the papers it must be true. With the web and the ability for anyone to publish on anytopic the focus has gone from trusted information at your fingertips to a billion times the information but the problem is 99% of the people on the web have no idea how to check the source or owner of the information they receive and many believe as fact. Our media and communications are failing us because no one has taught the world the value of the source of their information. We are living in a digital age and we all are the imigrants Our children are the natives and many of you know now the tides are turning and unless we learn these lessons ourselves we will be helpless to make rational informed decisions. Just because we read and hear these stories on the news most with little investigation we find are opinions only and not based on hard facts. Michael Moore is the best example that comes to mind. If you listen to his stories you think god how can this be but when you get into the sources of his information you will find next to no credibility in most. He is a showman and as PT Barnum said there is a sucker born every minute!
Glad thanks for the discussion as it is this way we will learn to understand and share our views without the violence and hostility that our frustrations bring.
I have said it before and I will say it again. It means so very much that both the UK and Australian Governments are in with us sharing in the responsiblities that others will not but it has been the story of europe since the last war to take care of it self and let the US, UK, and other powers guard our borders. We can not afford to do it alone and again we can not aford to let go unresolved.
George Carlin, Richard Pryor, are entertaining, Michael Moore is a frustrated film producer that is nothing but unadulterated Bullshit.
What war is popular? Especially ones that have the gravest conflicts.
Hell we thought WWI and II was unpopular, didn't mean we didn't get involved. As for deception goes, Churchill was very deceptive, but he did it for the love of his country and countrymen and I tip my hat to him. Yes in political history he was not popular, but when it was time of war the people turned to him because of his resolve. Churchill wasn't a politician he was a statesman who loved his country
and would do anything to preserve it. And Churchill drank too much, well hell I might tip it a little bit with the pressure he took on. Also I remember Abraham Lincolns comment about Ulysees Grant, when General Haddock said he was a drunk, Lincolns response was, send the rest of my Generals whatever Grant is drinking.
"...George Carlin, Richard Pryor, are entertaining, Michael Moore is a frustrated film producer that is nothing but unadulterated Bullshit. ..."
OK, perhaps there is a better word...
But his 'unadulterated Bullshit' is done in such a way that one can see what he is doing. And it is in some weird way funny to see right through his 'flim-flam' - or whatever his so called style is...
Yes you are right geri but again we are enlightened to such. Those average hard working class that does not have the education and forsight fall for his tear jearking stories and bad boy confrontaion as someone like them and in esscence the education part is right but again those who want to point fingers seem to fall in line behind each other. As I said he does entertain but his information is just purly opinion and based on headlines that latter have all been debunked. I especially loved his putting the picture of the girl at charles home as if he pulled the trigger. Again show boating and taking advantage of his positon behind a camera like every other media want a be.