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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > Possible fraud?? Author Post 200 camaro Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/4/2004 1:09:32 AM   I have been mailing a girl from this site for a few months now #34535 , and have asked her 4 times for some other pics besides the profile one. I wanted her address so i could send her a christmas card but she says send it to the agency in penza instead. The last letter i wrote i asked her what was going on , why no pic and sending a card to the agency instead of her house. Since then i have had no reply so figure it is some kind of scam. She never asked for money but i sent her flowers and $80 thru the agency for english lessons at her agency. jmoluv Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/4/2004 1:46:26 AM   mr camaro, hello,i have an interesting story for you about penza!! when i very first started exactly one year ago this month.the very first woman i fell for was a beautiful woman from penza. in fact fiance .com told me there is only one agency in penza that they do business with. this woman had no english level at all . her name was natalia nasirova. well their agency so called interpretor of letters had a ball with me. i knew something was wrong from the beginning from the way the my letters were being answered. it was like she was talking to someone else about nothing i wrote to her about. none of your questions rarely get answered. i was to naieve then to know these were canned letters . i gave her the benefit of the doubt because i was too stupid to know any better. i thought it was a communication problem. asshole me. well guess what camaro, she asked me to send her 250 dollars for a excellerated english course to help her learn english. i did not. that dating agency is still with fiance and i know damn well now from my experiences now from getting shafted and being able to tell a real letter from a fake letter that that the agency itself was the one who tried to scam me not her. in fact the agency itself in penza only has about the same 30 women they had one year ago and they are all still available. interesting. nice beautiful web page sounding legitimate. beautiful women. and how convenient camaro, they offer english lessons for their ladies so you can be so nice and pay for them because you care . it is total bullshit. YOU WERE SCAMMED i think i still have the web adress for penza.if i do i will give it to you. GEMACH Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/4/2004 4:06:04 AM   Maybe it's the same with Lady Maria Stepanova, ID 32554, from Penza and now I know why. I first got a very nice letter, but none as a result of my response. And have a look at her stats too. Thunderdome Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/4/2004 12:53:32 PM   Possible fraud?? No, impossible stupidity. The word 'fraud' implies premeditated willful dishonesty, but because you admit she never asked for it this entirely is your own fault. Nice try but you got rapped on your knuckles. You'll live & hopefully learn from it, same like Jmo did - except that he also confuses Scam with Stupidity. It is easy to point fingers at a girl, but voluntary contributions of any nature may just contribute to self-inflicted injuries. Und Du, mit dem Deutscher Grundlichkeit, please be carefull posting long lists of numbers here? So far you do it in a reasonable way, but please don't start using accusing words in connection with them. If this is where you're headed your address is Admin, not Forum. You seem mis-, or uninformed, about their reason d'etre. This site is a Mediator only, your/our source of funneled leads. Multiple entries are caused by agencies, most often without the knowledge of the girl in question even, because only they stand to gain by their placing. But then again, the girl's exposure just increases a bit, nothing wrong with. Yeah, some inconsistencies will occur then, but just ask her which one is correct if you're interested. But who cares? Can't any of you not recognise a real letter from a canned one? And if so, surely you then also will spot a genuine interest she takes in you, or the lack of this? If she asks for money report her to Admin and/or a scamsite, and move on. Scrutinizing this/any database is in my opinion an utter waste of time, if only this normally is done by dumb computers, ein Rechner - bist Du? shaggy47435 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/4/2004 1:54:27 PM   I think the point being made Thunder is that even users with our limited access to the database can readily find these repeats and if they used some very basic powers over the database at fiance.com they could weed out allot of the repeats and shammers much easier than we can. Of course speed in our journey is not so much a thing for them as we are paying over time for our service. I for one would be willing to pay more for a better service. I realize they offer personalized guaranteed searches for large sums but I think those skills could be used to stream line the data base, straiten out the agencies and offer more quality over quantity of listings. We do not really need 15,000 listings 2 or 3,000 real women would do just fine. I am not sure why you think calling them impossibly stupid really helps them to understand the situations but do I do understand your point that we should use caution in proclaiming anyone a scammer on this site without the evidence to back it up. As well as it would be better to list specifics with the admin and see what is up. I do understand that there is sometimes less than desired outcomes from such but we all know the agencies are here to make money and we are that money. We have a right to help shape the services we receive for that money and I think we can be safe to assume there are many that think there is more that could be done to improve the quality of the forum and the database. jmoluv Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/4/2004 2:26:03 PM   t-dome, (except that he also confuses scam with stupidity) are you calling me stupid? (voluntary contributions of what? ) from what i can see t-dome you are quite blind to what is going on. he got scammed , that agency in penza offered a service as legitimate called english translation and she disappeared. from where i come from that is called fraud. how dare you call anyone stupid. i told shag earlier that there will be men here who will defend something they know not much about. you like to sit there and convince your self that you think you know how agencys run their operations.it is just your hypothesis and that is all. these women and agencies depend on fools like you and me to put food on their tables . you are always looking for reasons to make something smell better that already stinks. so you never tripped and fell and learned from your mistakes.glad to meet you. nice to know you. when some lady is up to no good i will gladly point the finger and gemach you do what you feel like doing and send it to who you want to .you dance to your own tune . you dont need his advice. Thunderdome Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/4/2004 5:40:56 PM   Jmo, contrary, you did not send her the requested sum she asked from you. Camaro did not have any other contact info or picures but for the profile's, but he repeatedly asked. Because (?) he did not get this he sent money to (via) her (agency), out of the blue i.e unsollicited. Whoever ended up with this money, a sum representing an average monthly salary for many, did not spend it the way he intended. Hardly a surprise, would you if I sent you the funds for a gardening course? Point is - nobody asked, he knew way to little about her but sent money, if anything a no-no and you know it, taking a fat chance on top of it by routing it via a third party he knows even less about. If that is not stupid I dunno - you'd call it clever? If you then start calling scam you also mix things up drastically, and no, it makes zero dif who he sent to - he did not know either! Why do you think it's smeared all over the Web "Don't send Money!" ? I disagree with that even, but that's something else. I've 'tested' someone with this, I told her I would send some for a specific cause. She went berserk, and threatened me to 'bring it to a bank - is that what you want?'. Quite funny actually, Russians still do not trust banks like we do :) Voluntary contributions is anything you send with a value, from flowers to gifts. Did you know that you can have fridges delivered, or complete home-cinema's? Sure, a nice surprise for someone you know - just make sure you know them first! No Shaggy, I'm sure they'd like 25.000 profiles rather than 3 odd thou. The really active one's are probably even less than that number, but that's not the point - this is a bizz, and you will be surprised how many gullible people are out there, and how much money is generated in this industry (the correct word!). No site will remove profiles which in fact are dormant, especially not when it depicts a pretty face, unless requested to do so. Why should they? It generates income for them, I'd keep them too. But yes, I think some scream scam and blame others way too quick. But I'll make it up to you, I'll send you a grand tomorrow, OK? Spend it the way you want, I only expect to be called 'Mister' by you from now on. If you don't I'll report you to Admin ;-))) jim30 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/4/2004 7:06:59 PM   Sir, I am wondering exactly the same thing: am I the victim of a fraud??? My girl which is no longer registered here has never send me any pictures of her at home although I asked her many times. She just avoided the subject. I wanted to invite her to Canada but her agency doesn't not accept payment by credit card!!! (there is a fraud protection on my visa) I have never seen that in my whole life. Now she wants me to transfer those funds into her account. Anybody could suggest me a safe way of conveying money in Donetsk or give me further info about this girl? Any help would be appreciated. I wished I'd still believe in Santa claus! jim30 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/4/2004 7:18:53 PM   Oh yes, I forgot her number: 39659 thanks everybody! jmoluv Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/4/2004 7:55:31 PM   jim30, your story meets all the criteria of forget her and move on. if she cant even send you a picture as you ask to show you she cares, why waste your time? shaggy47435 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/4/2004 10:12:16 PM   No problem Mister I take PayPal or certified check. 200 camaro Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/5/2004 12:59:20 AM   Thunder. (deleted by moderator) I asked a question for others perspective on this and to alert them of the going on at the penza agency. You endevoured to make out it was my wrong doing and give me personal critisim. (deleted by moderator) As for you other users who responded , thanks very much for the input and lets hope that the agency gets their act sorted out so we don't have this problem. All the letters i got from her where not canned , i just think the agency gets paid per letter so they keep sending me letters they write while the girl is long gone. Just a waiste of time is the biggest pisser, firstknight Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/5/2004 1:20:21 AM   200 camaro:- Firstly l am sorry for what has happened same thing happened to me. After the bitch flowers she just disappeared. The when l wnated some help, got some asshole giving me crap, guys like that shot be lined up and shot. I think if you have got nothing constructive to say, don't say anything. For all those pricks out there whom like to get smart, It really (deleted by moderator) pisses me off when some guys feel that they can say whatever they like... jmoluv Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/5/2004 2:29:56 AM   camaro , knight this shit goes on all the time. i tried to find the web adress for that sight in penza on my pc, but it has been erased. if you e-mail fiance.admin they will have it. and you can personally tell the penza agency you will be there to burn their place down. Thunderdome Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/5/2004 7:04:11 AM   Inferno-links tailored for Penza: http://www.assol-agency.com/ http://www.russianprettyladies. com/ http://www.russian-brides-service.com/main.php http://europeansingl es.com/women/women_of_city/penza_4.htm http://penza.russian-women-for-brides .com/ http://www.city-of-brides.com/from/Penza.shtml http://russian-brid es.free-www.info/eng/Penza.html http://russian-ladys.free-www.info/eng/Penza .html http://www.russian-mail-order-bride.net/penza.shtml http://www.mat ch-ru.com/penza.shtml And some about how to relate to Agencies: http://www.womenrussia.com/blacklist.htm http://www.russi an-brides-service.com/main.php http://www.russian-scam.org/agency.htm Co pernic Agent (an SE-manager) seems incapable to find a specific Penza agency related to scams. As a last resort, and risky in itself, a PI-link: http://www.detective.com.ua/penza.htm Jim, I dunno how easy it is to invite someone to your country, but surely you'll go to her first? If you have not met you don't know her hence should NOT send her not even small-change! Quite likely she is a scammer Jim, and her real name you will only get when you suggest you will use Western Union to send her the money. She will have to send you her name on her ID she is required to collect it there, and this name you should look up on the Net. Of course you will NOT send a cent to her, this is only to get 'a' name from her, but careful now, that name could be someone else's. Someone who evades questions, ignores your requests regarding personal details, does not send at least some recent pics and refuses to give a telephone number you basically do not know from a bar of soap, and then the last thing you'll do is send money for whatever purpose. But search for these on the net, you'll be surprised by their multitude. If you like her send her a letter stating that if she does not give her full details to you (full name, address, tel-no and some recent pictures) you'll move on and end correspondence with her. If she bails out you should feel good, but if she sends these things still don't trust her, you still will not send any money, but should visit her if you think she's worth it. And take it from there, it is the only way to do it, and also this is no guarantee for anything but an experience. Best of luck, Thunderdork. Thunderdome Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/5/2004 8:10:07 AM   Oh Jim, another thing. You can pay for her visa & ticket in non-redeemable forms, like booking a reversed ticket she cannot cash-in, and transfer funds for her visa-app which also cannot be accessed by her. Such is sometimes possbile, and this would sound like a safe thing - but may not be. When travelling to many countries she has to prove to be able to support herself during her stay in that country by means of having funds, an indication is some $500. Many don't have this, and bear in mind this is close to a year's salary. Guys have fallen for this trap already, having paid her ticket & visa already, and then they find out she has to have cash and so they send her this. It might be the last you hear from her. Some countries do allow you taking responsibility for her, and in doing so waiving the necessity for her to have these funds, but this may also not be a good idea. Bottom line is, you go to her first. wtrav02 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/5/2004 8:49:48 AM   200 camaro and jim30, as you've already been told, you have been scammed. Do not send money, it's money down the toilet. As a general rule of thumb, never ever send money before you visit her and verify she is real and that you are both interested in each other. Instead engage the admin by sending directly an email stating your concerns to fiance.com. It never hurts to verify the girl by sending her a flower. The delivery guy makes an appointment, then delivers the flower (or flowers) to her, takes a picture of the girl with the flower and emails the picture to you within 24-48 hours. He also checks the passport of the girl so he can verify her data for you. Some delivery services will also write you their impressions of the girl and her family. The cost is an obscene $20 upwards depending how many flowers you send her, which is nothing comparing to having feet on the ground in her home to tell you and show you what they saw. fiance.com and many other sites on the net, some dedicated to flower and gift delivery, provide this type of service. In God's name, please learn this lesson 101 of this industry as TD likes to call it: please never send any money unless you in your heart feel 100% sure the girl is real and there is mutual interest. I am married to a girl from Ukraine through online dating. I never sent her money, she never asked me for any. In our first phone conversations and before I met her in person, a couple of times the discussion evolved in a way that in my very suspicious mind at the time seemed it would come to asking money. Because I liked her very much and had many hopes, I prayed at that moment, I said: "God please make her not to mention the "M" word, I really like this girl". If the word had been mentioned even by mistake, I would have called the whole thing off right there. I was very determined about this lesson 101 that I mentioned. I started my involvement in international online dating in spring of 2002. I came in front of many scammers; many women asked for money, I found some women's pictures on scammer lists. I was never scammed. I did not lose a penny on a scam (except maybe a few dollars that I gave to a girl in Kiev, but that was money well spent). Anyway, the bottom line: never send money, verify her, be suspicious until you've got proof to yourself, don't expose the girl's data on a forum - you might be wrong and it is unethical to do it without sufficient proof, contact fiance.com (that's why they're there), if and only if the girl or the agency is proven a scam, then go online report her and her agency, there are scammer lists all over the net. Please ask any questions to this forum without reporting specific girls’ names or ID numbers, we’re all very happy to give advice to the best of our knowledge. wtrav02 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/5/2004 8:52:09 AM   TD as much as I enjoy what you write, I must say you have a tendency to come too strong on the new kids on the block. We’re really here to help people not to put them on the spot. It’s easy to alienate people when they already feel they were scammed and they hear it in a very harsh way from others as well. I’ve never been scammed by Russian dates, but I have been scammed in the past in non-dating related matters very big and I mean many tens thousand dollars and very quickly. Don’t tell me you never felt stupid about losing money on something. It’s happened one way or the other to everyone. In fact, the money that you would ever lose on a dating scam is nothing comparing to money you can lose on other things. So, no big deal, the emotional thing is that bothers most people and the “how can I have been so stupid” syndrome. When I started international dating, there were quite a few girls that I liked, but they screamed scam to my face. The little voice inside was telling me I will find someone whom I would be excited with and who really wants to be with me. And the dream came true, so none should get discouraged, keep trying, there are so many prospects out there. There are many more women from FSU looking for men than there are men looking for FSU women. Think about it the odds are overwhelmingly in your favor, so please don’t complain, use your judgment and the resources that you have available online. wtrav02 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/5/2004 8:59:14 AM   Another idea for those entrepreneurial minds with a sense of adventure, you could start you own online agency and have your own pick among you girls and make money. I was contacted eighteen months ago by a Ukrainian guy who owns an online agency about making it a business. I exchanged many emails and I believe the guy’s for real and he is really sharp. He gave me a rough business plan with three profit scenarios under different funding and regional penetration levels. This is a quite detailed draft including types of services, how many people at what jobs, what type of equipment, what type of advertising, breakeven timing, etc. for each of the three funding/profit scenarios. There are a few men from western countries who have ventured that way both as a business and as a way to find the woman of their dreams. I thought about it afew times, but I had already found my wife and I am too busy with other things. If anyone’s interested in this, let me know, I can send you the details of this business plan. Thunderdome Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/5/2004 11:05:30 AM   Yo Wtrav, Yeah, I suppose I sometimes get annoyed by some who send money to total strangers, I suppose because it simply is something I would never do. I’m inherently curious and surfed for info when I got started, did ‘homework’ if you like, and found surprise on surprise. The very first time I heard about RW was in 2000, a friend had AFA under his favorites. I could not believe the beauty I saw, and there was no way I either understood or believed an iota of it – too pretty too be single. In 2002 I got the Net and remembered & found that site, and I bought some addresses. Still not convinced I bought a handful of the cream of the crop, and 3 responded. Of two I somewhat later found multiple profiles, and they were a bit evading in their answers. I’ve concluded that these ‘faces’ are kept for turnover-purposes, they answer real but are not at all interested in anybody but for some commission. I visited one of them but have never seen her – she decided on someone else a week before I arrived in Spb. Never having been to Russia I had the best time of my life, I hunch akin to your visits there, and have taken it from there. But that means that I simply know my approach has changed since, not more careful but different because I have at least some idea about where they come from, and take that in more than one way. Economic hardship and working hours do take on a new meaning there, and in some sort of way I in fact can understand those scammers – it must be easy, there’s lazy unscrupulous people everywhere anyway, and they make lots of money. I suppose many find this forum as a result of disappointments hence do so only after some damage is done. But also true, if you’ve got the Net for correspondence you also can find any info you need, and a forum may be helpful but most is elsewhere. Elena’s Womenrussia is still the classic and covers wide, and I wonder how many here have actually read her lot, but more importantly remember & apply what they’ve read. It is easy to get carried away by a pretty face and some lovely writing. Next you phone yourself into bankruptcy and then you visit – with no guarantees and you know it. I myself may have been lucky in that I’ve paid only for tangible returns, but then also have had even intricate requests for money from some. But any kind of request for money simply must lead to alarm bells going off, and sending it voluntarily simply is gambling – a slim chance you could gain a lot, but then also accept when you loose it. But surely one may call a horse a horse? I don’t think gambling is very clever. Quite interesting that you’ve been approached by someone to start a dating-site. Was this a result of your frequent travels there, if I remember correctly for business, and do you still go there now and then? Wonder what you do… Your Reply: Your name:   New Registration Password:   Forgot password?   refresh Code:   Russian brides > Main Forum > Possible fraud??
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