the gist of what is going on here is you dont equate the word (stupid) with people who are making an effort to change their lives. you pushed the wrong button.
another thing is options, obviously fiance .com will do nothing about canned letters and they probably cannot control it, but only to send out an occasional warning if you request it. i have written threads protesting canned letters and some men here dont mind canned letters in replys.i find that hard to beleive. if you really want to get around wasting all your precious time , or if you dont have a life, get on a plane like i did two times already and go to a social. it eliminates instantly what we do here torturing ourselves. you men rely heavily on internet. it helps but obviously it has its drawbacks. a lot more than meeting one face to face at a gathering who is already there with good intentions. instead of laboring and wading and then decide if you should or shouldnt trust your instincts, and then go there. you and glad and w trav arent the only ones who have been over there and have genuine fsu experiences. i know what the working options are for me, and i know for me what works and what doesnt. i flew over there because my instincts told me for the most part this website is a farce. these women and their intentions are not policed, well they really cannot be. i know it and you know it. and as their data base grows it is harder to monitor. all fiance.com has to do is this, send out a blanket order to all agencies and every female who joins this web is entitled to one canned opening introduction letter to one male member, if she sends a second and is reported she will be removed. same goes for the private e-mailers , one report and she is gone. that simple. i think those agencys will change their tune. but of course now , i am waiting for someone to think this is not a good idea. going back, to options, to the people and new members who have not made the journey and want to really experience fsu ladies and by pass all the headache and torment you get on this site? and all the ideas from people who will never go there? just simply go to a social and meet beautiful women . it is that easy. you meet wonderful women that you can write letters to that you have already met and like and know are for real. instead of having photos taken of them when you send flowers to see if they are for real. you can have your photo taken with them, with your arm around them . and guess what men, these women you have already met do not or wouldnt send a canned letter or try to scam you. it is your only other option than fiance, and it is a lot easier with no speculation. and of course someone will say this is not true.
Hi TD, first off I never did business of any kind in FSU. I wanted to put some personal money in an investment in Ukraine lookig at potentially high returns. I did some research on real estate. In the early part of the ninties, you could buy a nice apartment in a downtown neighborhood for $15-20K. As of last year, the same apartment would sell for $80-100. Prices have topped and there is not much upside from here. There are better prospects for business offices and downtown apartments in other big cities. I decided to pass. Looking at the current political situation and the rapid depreciation of the hryvnia, I probably did the right thing.
I also did some research on franchise opportunities, but most brand names don't want to go to Ukraine yet (due to political risks and lack of laws that protect private property) and those that are already there go through a development phase and won't have available licenses before 2007-2008 time frame.
The other guy with the agency information found somewhere my address and contacted me to my business email. He must have assumed that I would have interest in a business venture. We exchanged emails, he answered all of my questions. I was planning to visit him in his city near Dnepropetrofsk last summer while visiting Ukraine anyway, but I didn't visit him.
I have stopped thinking of these ideas entirely as I lack time or I should say solid motivation. It would help a lot if I had absolutely no prospects here :)
I haven't been to Ukraine for quite a while. I plan to go there next year with my wife.
Funny thing I also started with AFA. Maybe it's because is the first site that pops up on every search engine I tried. They've done a terrific job on this. I also bought the platinum thing with the unlimited access. I spent so much time scanning the profiles, but I never sent a letter because at the time their letter forwarding service simply sucked. I preferred the sites that had email and better letter forwarding services (cannot escape the desire for instant gratification). I certainly browsed through Elelna's web site during my first months. Her site has a wealth of information. She puts things in perspective regarding expectations and potential scams. It really helped me become realistic from the get go.
jmoluv, you are wrong in one thing that you said: "you can have your photo taken with them, with your arm around them . and guess what men, these women you have already met do not or wouldnt send a canned letter or try to scam you". Many people have been scammed by beautiful women who go to socials looking for sponsorship. Don't fool yourself that the agencies do much research on the girls who go to socials. In fact, the research is limited to how attractive they are. In the past, I was very suspicious about socials and have never been in one. I am not going to say don't go, it's up to you, it may or may not work like everything else. Just lower your expectations and put "buyer beware" mentality to work.
The other thing I don't agree is: "it is your only other option than fiance, and it is a lot easier with no speculation. and of course someone will say this is not true". You can go there and try to meet someone like another member, Deanis, has done. You can meet girls in clubs, bars, cafes, stores. You will need to have a basic command of the language. In FSU it is commonplace to flirt with a girl that you don't know. This does not guarantee success either. You can be scammed or end up with a hooker. In fact, I have the example of Russian girl that I know in my area and is married to a local guy. They met when he was visiting her city as sports fan. The guy did no background check on her. She was involved in ... many things in her country. Sponsorship is pretty common in FSU and taking money fro men, married men to be a girlfriend is generally acceptable. The problem is that she is in the second boyfriend already (Russian) and the husband has no idea. The most annoying is that she has this mentality that she is pretty and can get men to do whatever she wants. So, there is no certain thing or bullet proof solution. Relax, develop experience as you go, enjoy yourself, and definitely investigate before you buy a ring.
those are my experiences between internet and socials i went to. european connections has tossed many a women from their business. and this , the women over there are for the most part are no different than they are over hear. they are just better looking. and they know it is marketable. to say for the most part fsu women are not westernized with their access now to internet is pipe dreams. you have just a good of chance of finding the holy grail over hear as you do over there.
I spent A LOT of time at an internat cafe (about 8 hours per day for five days - due to not setting up anything in advance in Latvia). I got to know some of the regulars there. I have to admit I was AMAZED at some of the young beautiful women who came in and spent a lot of time answering emails. I have to admit I unobtrusively looked over their shoulders from time to time and (in the instances where they were writing in English) and it was gratifying to see the glee with which they responded to their letters. They were anything but laid-back. Once in a while its easy to grow cynical and wonder if these gorgeous girls really exist - or are they all agency letters or written by guys.
I can tell you - these beautiful women were very real. (Unfortunately they were not writing to ME.)
But I have also been amazed at the number of incredible women I met over there who spoke excellent English - but could not write in English at all. They may or may not have listed email addresses (dpending on agency requirments) but in any case they never checked their emails or wrote much back. THESE women are the hidden jewels of the FSU and you can never meet them by simply writing letters.
One absolutely beautiful Moldovan I know had no computer (whish is typical of course) and absolutely refused to go to the internet cafe in her small Moldovan city. She did not like the sort of people who hung out there. She did attend Socials a couple of time (which is how I met her) but she was eventually dropped all together by her agency because she could not be reached by email.
What a shame.
And the saddest part is that if any of us wrote to her, after waiting a sufficient time and not getting a response, we would have decided that she was not real or not interested.
She was VERY real and VERY interested.
But youwoul dnever have had a chance at her without going to a Social.
i hear you jet;
i just cant understand why so many men are skeptical about flying over there to attend a social . worried about what? really. several women i met at a social and i have stated this befoere have told me in english that sitting with someone you meet in person and exploring each other , all the e-mails in the world cannot add up to the human experience of looking and talking to someone in the eyes. when you go over there and do that and then come home to this , well i shouldnt have to explain.
none of those agencys that you listed above for camaro in penza are the one that fiance.com deals with. i just cant remember their nameand web adress. i do know that if you deal directly with them , they charge you for extra photos and they charge you for different lenghts of weeks for english lessons that you pay for their women to learn. but only through their site. up to 250 dollars. i think that is the type of agency that people should stay away from.
my luck in making lifetime friends at a social was great for me. i have two women who i have been very close to for almost a year now one who i went back to see a second time and about four more who i call occasionally that have developed from a social. not one of those women have ever tried anything on me since i have met them. and they all have the opportunity. my record and experience speaks for itself.
Copernic Pro is by no means the end of all, but, because it uses & sorts SE's you specify (there's loads!), is has proven exceptional. I also searched for past, banned and scam-related leads but did not find any worth specifying.
However, Penza was always part of the string, and some agencies have 'branches' there - maybe one of those you're looking for?
If you want Copernic yourself (cracked, free) find Fosi and/or Programz. Look past the porn-ads, his stuff works ;-)
back to fishing for you - the sea is full of nice .....