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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > Stats from the letter king...lol Author Post shaggy47435 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/12/2004 9:05:57 PM   Interesting stats. Many have commented on my the number of letters I have written so I thought I would break down my 3 months with fiance.com Of my experience with fiancé.com I have had contact with 312 ladies. 16 % wrote me first. 26% never returned my letters. 46 % have written less than 5 letters 9% were seriously looking 10 or more letters 3 % were seriously possibilities. 20 or more letters. These figures are based on my inbox data and compiled for entertainment only. Just to let everyone know my experience as many think I am a writing fool. It would seem to agree with many estimates I have found at other places as well. I am guessing about a 5% error rate but this is pretty close. In the End I say about 9% were genuinely interested or about 28 girls out of 312. shaggy47435 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/12/2004 9:08:02 PM   Oh 9 ladies that I think had possibilities as a match! Most important. QuietCharm Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/13/2004 12:45:48 AM   A lady in St.P was adamant that finding a life partner is a numbers game. Over 100 ladies per month is certainly that. Are these 9 ladies concentrated in one area or will you travel the FSU to see them all? If you aren't, isn't that a little rough on the ladies? They have costs, which many can ill afford to waste, trying to find a man. In those 20 letters, have they gradually developed feelings for you or do you keep the tone 'businesslike'? Oh yes. Stop writing to my lady. ;-)) shaggy47435 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/13/2004 3:05:01 AM   Actually 2/3 were in the first month and as I said half were no returns or no thank yous. Then about 100 one or two canned letters never to hear from again. So I would say more like 60 actual contacts and 48 that contacted me over that time. Every one of the girls that seemed real or answered my questions I told my basic speal about that I am seeking friends first and exploring compatibility. Most agreed that to become friends and learn more would be great. A few did not like it at all so I mad my excuses. Many after 10 or so emails gave me the your really sweet but I do not want 3 kids from your other marriage. Many also said they wanted lavish lifestyles and travel so I made my excuses. And some just dropped off the face of the earth or were removed. Brings us down to the 28 or so that seem serious and such. Most were in Riga, Odessa, and Moldova. Most of the Riga ladies have dissolved into friendships that want to meet anytime and see when I can be there in person and many try to tell me to look in the Ukraine were the women are hot for all men they say. They tell me that Latvian ladies are much more proud and less likely to have marriage to foreigner...lol. I have 1 in Odessa that thinks I am great and wants to meet. And I have many in Moldova that want to explore friendships and see. Out of all of them there are only 3 that I call and feel are really the ones I am focused on at this time but again we are sharing and finding out more. So far I guess they are the ones I will be meeting. Again all of these ladies know my plan and that I am wanting to be sure and careful. I am only really speaking of stronger feelings with 2 and those are the ones causing the issue of Riga or Moldova...The first was in Riga but she is very difficult to pen down on dates to visit and contact information. I have her mailing address but she has no phone. I am having issues. But my lady in Moldova has a phone but does not write very often. She is from Ukraine but lives in Moldova and wants out to the US. Made it very clear this is her want and wants us to meet soon. She is a lawyer of all things but I think this is one lawyer I would love to learn to hate…lol. We are talking about 2 times a week. I must say this is my #1 I think even though she came latter in the search. (Foot taller and 10 years younger than my she-devil ex!) It seems to me the ones more serious at this time are the ones that showed great warmth to me early on and showed warmth and attention to my children as well. Both very big points in my opinion. Age range from 21 to 35. It would seem that from this point I have been looking only in those areas, as I understand the problems. I hope to figure out Riga and once that is done then I think the Moldova/Odessa thing might be happening. I also am looking hard at getmarriednow.com as my back up if all of this goes bust. But again I am trying very hard to be up front and honest with these ladies and I am sure it did cost me some of the earlier ones but I think it also helped me to find the ones that seem the most honest and sincere. None of the serious ladies but one ask me for money and she was removed and the topic of a thread here! She was a miss Wow that wrote to about 300 in a 6-week time frame and Oleg agreed I think that she did not have to pay for her return letters to me. Most of the long term high letter ladies that stopped writing wrote me first and were from the miss wow bunch. Several of them wanted me to join their service before they left but I declined as I told them my service covers my letters already and I do not need the other services. Most of the last three months at least 4 to 6 of the miss wows were writing me at those times. None have stayed long term but 2 and both of them I think made miss wow because of me! :-) So the short answer is about 3 of the 9 are left at this point and the other 6 are very close friends that we both agree maybe someday we will have more but they are very casual about it and we write once to two times per week. Mostly about friends and family and school. It was strange as several of the ladies that dismissed me early on because of children and distance came around latter and are in that top 3. They said that they just had not found anyone that they felt as connected to and that they had never met anyone like me there. So even the ones that cast you aside may be a chance to spot someone that may be serious. Oh well shaggy needs some sleep so that’s it. wtrav02 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/13/2004 12:36:44 PM   It's almost a full time job until you get down to 2-3 isn't it? She's right about Latvia. The Baltic countries are very nationalistic, I hear they even banned learning of Russian language. The same about nationalism holds true for Western Ukraine. How many women located in western Ukraine have you seen looking for marriage overseas, they're mostly from east and south. Kind of a paradox, given that east and south are more attached to Russia and west is attached to EU. I'll let someone else figure this. I surely wish you good luck, you've been mery methodical and honest in your search and it seems you've been acting smart and doing all the right things. Good luck! shaggy47435 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/13/2004 1:02:41 PM   Thanks wtrav. Again it is right up there with death and taxes but I am sure that my hard work will pay off soon. You are right though I spend hours and hours a day keeping up and going. Luckily my job alows this as long as things are running smooth. jmoluv Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/13/2004 1:14:02 PM   so shag, when you helped these ladies reach the miss wow status, did that come with a tiara and an armful of roses from with their new high profile image!!!! danny3777 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/13/2004 2:55:21 PM   Shaggy, Just to clearly establish the response rate, did all the 312 ladies advertise they were looking for a guy of your age? shaggy47435 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/13/2004 3:59:58 PM   Yes, Martin except there were 2 or three that had their upper limit at 35 and I am 36. To be honest I did not start writting to the ones younger than 25 until they started to write to me. There have been a few exceptions. Jmo...Well not exactly...but they did get a congratts from me. Many had no idea what I was talking about...lol. More trouble to explain than it usually was worth! shaggy47435 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/15/2004 8:36:10 PM   Darn lost one to a local. At least for now! She says she would still like to meet but she cannot write while she is dating... tell me thats not weird...lol. Second string but still ballsy! Nisse Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/17/2004 4:08:36 PM   mr miss wow maker shaggy47435 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/17/2004 4:20:59 PM   But I am winding down! Doug Salem Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/17/2004 4:42:00 PM   Shaggy, I'm afraid the fact that you used email to conduct your letter writing campaign seriously skewed the results. Hence your statistics aren't really all that meaningful. If you sent 317 emails to Russian women I guarantee you 300 of them were intercepted or fielded by marriage agency owners and other middlemen. Their conflicts of interest with regards to the replies you recieved should be obvious. The best way to make REAL contact with REAL Russian women and get accurate readings of their REAL interest in you is via Snail Mail. Yes, it is archaic and slow. But in this particular case it has decided advantages. I can direct you and others to more information on how to conduct an effective Snail Mail campaign if you wish. Again, this may put me at odds with the owners of this discussion board, so it would be best to contact me privately about it. Doug dougsalem@verizon.net Doug Salem Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/17/2004 4:51:44 PM   P.S., I snail mailed 70 women, got about 50 replies, 30 of which were serious annd still looked good. After exchanging about five more letters with each of those, I was able to throw out about 5 more for not being what they claimed, and another 20 for not being my type after i got to know them better. Down to 10, I kept snail mailing, but switched over to what I call "secure" email communications with some who were able to facilitate that. (Again, I can send those interested more information on this technique privately.) I also started calling those ten and talking to them on 3-way phone calls (with an interpreter). The phone calls helped me eliminate another four. With only six left, one of which was my now-wife Olga, I started planning my trip to visit. When they realized was serious about coming to meet them, three dumped me! (How dare they?). With only three left, I decided to visit Olga first. The rest is history. I started writing the 70 snail mail letters in November of 1998, visited Olga in June of 99, and was married by February 2000. Again most of the hard work, and the REAL work, was done via snail mail. I am a firm believer in it, even now, six years later. shaggy47435 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/17/2004 4:51:55 PM   Yes we understand the constant intervention of the agencies and translators. Many have experienced the censoring of our emails and address' from our correspondence. Simple truth is that snail mail just does not fit my life style If I wanted that kind of wait I would just wait until my trip this spring. I understand that much of my efforts will be chalked up to practice. I am only seriously following those that are upfront and honest with me sharing contact information and yes I have mailed some items and letters but only as suplimental to email. I also realize that many are in it for the novelty as email is simple and non committed. I do think it has been a great learning experience and has got me going on things good and bad very quickly. We have all fallen victom to the bait and switch and the visa/airfare, and the please pay my bus ticket to the cafe so I can write hundreds. I have however found several real people that are truly interested. I took allot of effort and yes a few pops in the mouth but I am wiser because of it. I also am looking for someone with computers as their interest as well and email seems to be a good way to find the independant women with computer savy. But thanks we do want to know all we can. shaggy47435 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/17/2004 4:58:28 PM   I personally am searching for someone with the english skills to make the basic communications posible. I know that is seems wrong but I think it is the best in my situation as I am not gifted at the english language let alone any other. I do practice russian and have learned to type it. I do not have any speaking ability yet but I am trying. I know it is the bread an butter of allot of agencies but most any educated russian women I have contacted seems to have the basic skills enough to avoid an interpreter. Even many of their parents can answer my phone calls and take messages in english. Maybe I am just lucky. danny3777 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/17/2004 5:00:57 PM   DG, I hasten to disagree but the best way to make REAL contact with REAL Russian (FSU) women is to cut being a keyboard (letter writing) Romeo and get one's ass on a plane out there. After a few years of letter writing experience one comes to realise what a falsehood it can be, of all the guys that write letters a small proportion are successful within the first few attempts and many of those, bedazzled by the blonde hair and model figure, are rushing into something without thinking about the longer term. One can only conduct a REAL relationship by personal meeting(s) and personal contacts, not by pen, paper or keyboard. One needs to learn how you are together, her behaviour pattern(s), does she really like you or is it just an act and one ain't going to learn this thru letters. I hasten to add that I'm off to Ukraine again tomorrow, 4th time there this year! Doug Salem Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/18/2004 9:01:25 AM   O.K., you guys lost me on this one already. Shaggy are you saying that doing your homework and cutting out the middleman doesn't suit your lifestyle? I don't get it. Are you saying you are in too much of a hurry adequately prepare the soil for a trip you are planning to FSU? Does your "lifestyle" constitute corresponding with a bunch of marriage agency owners? The Russians abuse email privacy like you wouldn't believe, and very few Russian women have the luxury of their own, private email boxes. If you are setting up a trip to FSU based on a lot of email correspondences with Russian women, don’t be surprised if they act like they don’t know you when you show up in their town. The racket is the marriage agency owners using the girls’ photos and emails as bait to get you to come there and spend your money. You go there, lured by sweet emails. The girls act cold. You are confused. Their behavior does not jive with the emails they were writing. A marriage agency owner, interpreter, or some other Russian middleman shakes his or her head and shrugs, and offers to introduce you to a bunch of other girls as fall backs. How many times have you heard this same story on these discussion boards? You end up buying lunch and dinner for everybody in that town, padding all of the taxi drivers’ and hotel owners’ or apartment renters’ pockets, and coming home empty handed and confused. But that’s O.K., you can keep making more and more and more trips, right? Speaking of which, Martin, doesn’t the fact that you have already made three trips but with still no cigar tell you something about your approach might be wrong? Again, you need to adequately prepare the ground before you go. I am not talking about engaging in some kind of letter la-la land letter writing fantasy I am talking about vetting a lot of potential life partners through a secure communications channel. If you just fly over there with no real plan and no real potential wives expecting you, the women will view you as just another lonely Western “player” looking for a good time. There are hundreds of these guys wandering around FSU as we speak. Many are on their fifth and sixth visits. Our experience has been that a guy’s rate of success is inversely related to the number of visits he makes. 99% of the happily married Russian woman – American man couples we know did it on the first try. They all communicated with each other via snail mail for several months before committing to meeting. Another drawback to just jumping on a plane and going is that the plane will be flying over cities where thousands of Russian women who might be your soul mates are languishing because you didn’t write letters to them. When you just go to a city, even if you meet ALL of the women in that city, you will still be dealing with only a tiny subset of the available women in FSU. Chances are none of the women in the city you pick will consider you to be husband material. Hence all of the repeat-trip guys. “Maybe I’ll try Odessa this time. Maybe I’ll find a wife there!” With a good letter writing campaign, you can make contact with ALL of the women in FSU you are interested in, regardless of their location. I for one, would have never picked Krivoy Rog, Ukraine. It just so happened that’s where Olga lived. I picked her (and she picked me), not her city. Olga would not have agreed to meet with me if I had just flown in there and said I liked her photo and want a date. She wanted to know a lot about me first before she committed to a meeting. She did not want to waste her time or mine. The nice, sincere, and SMART Russian women are like that. Don’t you want a smart wife, Martin? Similarly, Shaggy, limiting your search to girls who only speak English is, well, limiting. What is a girl is sincerely saying (in Russian) "Shaggy, you are the perfect man for me - the one I have been dreaming about all my life. I want to marry you and have your baby." Are you going to pass her over because it's not in English? Maybe you already have. Why would you go to a different countrry to meet foreign women with the ultimate goal of entering into a cross-cultural marriage and expect them to speak your language? Does that really make sense? Guys, I am not trying to be antagonistic. I offer this information in good faith. I can see that your minds are already made up. That’s O.K. you are a majority, not a minority. That is why the success rate is so low. Let me know if my particular brand of tough love is too tough. I can always fall back to just publishing informational anecdotes. shaggy47435 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/18/2004 10:00:45 AM   Doug we are well aware of the scams and to be honest the only girls I trust are the ones I talk to on the phone on a regulare basis. I am well aware of the sirens whaling out the come visit our city ploy and if you read my post around here you know I am tough on the agencies for such. The ladies I am most interested in are independant as I say I want someone with some computer skills and yes english. No matter what english is the key to her success her in my country. I understand that she does not have to be fluent by anymeans but if she can't communicate with me at this point there is no use. I will not be the one to finace english lessons for someone I am not sure is my match. I just don't have the resources to teach the FSU english. I am doing my best to learn it and I think anyone genuinely interested in a life here should be well on their way to learning english. I am like you in your thinking that I am doing my ground work just more efficently than snail mail. As I said before I do write letters by snail as well to suppliment but again I will not visit anyone I have not spoken to on the phone and have a verified address. I have been very careful and yes understand that 90% of everyone here is on the take from someone or agency for something. Doug lets be honest here. You are saying that mail is better. I am sure you will also tell me that I need to have it translated and of course you know a service for such....lol. I wonder as well will you be selling address for these ladies? The simple truth is any of our methods are effective if we are careful and pay attention. I am quite good at spotting the canned letters of agencies and their little scams to nickle and dime you. Look at my other post here and you will see I am a pain in their side often. My latest is the agencies that are holding personal contact information from us unless we pay for a phone conference. Simple truth is I have yet to find any lady that I have called that cannot communicat with me in english regardless of the english level her agency claims. I also usually quickly open an email account for the ladies that are serious here and give her the log in information that she can use to contact me directly without the agency to interfere and yes it makes a world of difference in the letters. shaggy47435 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/18/2004 10:03:35 AM   Also allows me to see if she is using it to write to others. I know sneaky but effective. 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