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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > Does anyone know Elena Rays of Kiev..in correspondence with this girl?..she is suspect but unproven scam Author Post aussieman41 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/25/2005 4:22:41 AM   I corresponded with an Elena Rays of Kiev from April 2004 to Jan 2005. This girl is not genuine and is a suspected scammer but not fully proven. Scam signs: 1. Letters are mostly form letters..pre-drafted and prepared withh my name stuck in once only at the start. 2. Claims to have a computer at home ( Celeron 600 about 4 years old and it will cost $250 usd to upgrade it ) and home internet connection..takes from 2 days to 3 weeks to reply to you after you receive the e-mail read receeipt for your letter..average reply time from read receipt to actual e-mail reply is 8 days...something funny going on here. 3. Replies every second day or third day to start with and in her 4th e-mail to you she talks about a sick aunt of hers with cancer visiting her needing an operation and the aunt having no family to hep financially with the cost of medicine or operation and her parents are financially disabled to help..NEVER DIRECTLY ASKS FOR MONEY FROM YOU BUT TRIES TO APPEAL TO YOUR SYMPATHY IN THE HOPE YOU SEND MONEY ( I NEVER DID ) 4.Talks about her salary in her second letter to you which is $140 usd per month as a teacher of German in the faculty of foreign languages at Kiev National Economic University. 5. Letters are short..may are repeated latter like in a mass mailing and topics mentioned in past letters get repeated..HAS ALL THE SIGNS OF SOMEONE WHO IS BUSY WRITING TOO MANY MEN AND GETS CONFUSED AND LOOSES TRACK OF WAHAT SHE SAYS SOMETIMES. 6.About 8 months into correspondence she suddenly stops writing to you and you dont hear from her for 1 month..this is after she has written 50 e-mails to you. Then the letters start with excuse I have been busy and could not write to you ( no one can be busy for 1 month and not find 5 minutes to write to you on the computer ) or uses excuse quite a number of times..problems with interent connection or computer has viruses and that is why I have not written but long delay pattern in responding has been going for 7 months. 7. 8 months into correpondence suddenly stops writing then I investigate her..intensive google searh scores 69 hits on her..she is on 69 marriage agency sites since April and Angelika web reports her address has been sold nine times. 8. I confront her about this..it gets offended and runs off and I do not hear from her for 3 weeks and then it writes telling me not to write to her anymore. 9. Profile number gt6354 on WDN (World Digital Network ) sites including Angelika web. Physical attributes Height: 182cm or 5 feet 11 inches Weight: 75kg English: fluent level 5 German fluent level 5 NO TRANSLATIONS NEEDED..very competent english language ability in writing and speech. Claimed to be interested in me..a podgy 40 year old with small overweight belly and only 5 feet 7 inches tall ( 5 inches shorter ) and claimed she did not mind my shorter height..can you buy it?..NO, NOT NOW..WHAT A DICKHEAD I AM TO BELEIVE HER! SHES VERY GOOD AT WHAT SHE DOES AND THERE IS NO NEGATIVE RECORDS OF HER ON THE INTERNET THAT I CAN FIND. 10. On Bride.ru where I first found her #125338 in April 2004. 11. Uses ukr.net and mail.ru email addresses ( free private e-mail servers in FSU ) 12.Spent over $500 on her and never meet her made up of phone calls to her cell phone, small gifts and postage over the 8 month period..WHAT A STUPE I AM! Is this scam?> Can someone please tell me what ius wrong with this picture?> aussieman41 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/25/2005 4:40:45 AM   Oh forgot to mention her age..Elena Rays turned 25 on 10th January ( born 10 Jan.1980 according to internet profiles ) and was interested ( so it claimed ) in podgy 40 year old me. It is a patient type scammer I think..it lists in its profiles that it likes to shop and I think its one of those girls that will pull the big scam at the personal visit..a spoilt Kiev brat that will try to empty your wallet in a shopping spree ( because it loves shops ) if you go on a personal visit to her and then it will dump you. It has a sly look in its face in its photos. Be careful with this one..it smells like a big scam but she operates on stealth and has never been caught and no negative records found thus far on the internet about her. Also the surname "Rays" appears to be odd for a Ukrainian but it could have a jewish or French origin as a genealogical trace search of the "Rays" surname lead me to medievel France in its origins. I THINK THIS ONE HAS GOT "DANGER..SCAM WARNING" WRITTEN ALL OVER IT BUT ITS NOT CONCLUSIVELY PROVEN AS FAR AS I KNOW..MAYBE THE OTHER 9 MEN WHO HAVE WRITTEN TO HER WHO GOT HER ADDRESS OFF ANGELIKA WEB MAY SEE THIS ON THIS SITE AND MAY BE ABLE TO SHED SOME LIGHT ON HER. GLTALLTOAD Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/25/2005 8:07:36 PM   "...Be careful with this one..it smells like a big scam but she operates on stealth and has never been caught and no negative records found thus far on the internet about her..." You sent gifts and spent money on the phone....and that makes a woman a scammer????? She's not in any scam site and nobody has shown any proof of any form of scam...but you give yourself the authority to trash this girls integrity all over the website with to endless posts? Give me a god damn break!!! Your posts reek of 'Scorned pudgy 40 year old man rejected by beautiful 25 year aol woman after he sent gifts and paid for phone calls to her cell' This is not the first time someone does his best to trash a woman undeservedly. I hope the moderators take this case seriously and trash YOU all over the damn internet in they prove the girn to be innocent. This crap pisses me off...GGGRRRRr toad aussieman41 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/27/2005 12:05:41 AM   Toad, she meet many of the warning signals as stated in anti-scam sites and some things did not add up. She may not be so much a scammer as a novelty woman..I really don;t think shes serious in looking for a Western man and does not seem to provide the needed level of committment in communication to justify a man to visit her. I should have terminated communication with her a lot sooner. Her letter style seems to be that of a non genuine person..things are repeated, questions not answered, multiple repeated emails received as in a what would happen in a mass mailing. Toad, explain why a woman who claims to have her own computer and internet conncetion at home takes from 2 days to 1 month to reply to you after she has received and opened your e-mail to her ( average reply is 8 days from read receipt of your e-mail to tthe time you get a response from her and the e-mail is date stamped 8 days or whatever after so it was not stored and backed up in an e-mail server for delayed transmission days latter ). The woman is level 5 100% fluent in English speech and writing and is a translator of German and English languages by profession. Surely if she received an e-mail from me and was happy and sincere to get it, her language ability would be able to type a keyboard reply to me in a few minutes and send it especially if she had the convenience of a computer at home AND THEN WHY ON AVERAGE DO I WAIT 8 DAYS FOR IT AND IT IS ONLY A FEW LINES THAT COULD BE TYPED IN 2 MINUTED OR LESS. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence, TOAD would start to wonder why this is so. Im a computer technician and can trace the source off and identify all properties of an e-mail..I can trace an e-mail to the server in the geographical area it was sent from down to a part of the town. SOMETHING IS VERY FISHY WITH THE WAY THIS GIRL RESPONDS TO E-MAILS FOR A START. Also I know that she was active on other sites well into my correspondecne with her ( which is her right ) and her address was sold to nine other men. The only conclusion is she is writing to a lot of men doing mass mailing and pre-formed or drafted letters so it was not personal..a real woman who is genuinely interseted in you would write decent personal letters are not a few lines in rensponse to my e-mails which were on average 2 pages long. Wehn I confronted her..she chose to be offended and ran off and lost interest in me..a real woman would have asked why I questiuoned her after so long a correspopndence ( 8 months ). She sent me 55 e-mails, none of them a page long and most a couple of paragraphs only and I snet her 86 e-mails and talked with her 3 hours on the phone over 8 months and sent her some small gifts. There are many signs and oddities about this girl that do not add up and her intentions and genuineness needs to be highly questioned. I would not write to another young girl from Kiev or any of the big cities now and restrict age difference to a maximum of 10 years now..15 years is too much an age difference between a man and a woman and dont beleive this age difference hype of marriage agencies does not matter because it does..KEEP AWAY FROM YOUNG GIRLS FROM KIEV, MOSCOW,ST.PETERSBURG AS THEY ARE TOO MATERIALISTIC, SPOILT AND QUESTIONABLE IN THERE INTENTIONS aussieman41 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/27/2005 12:21:36 AM   Olga, you as the moderator..what do you think of my story and what happenned with this girl. If you feel that there was no justification for this post as there was not enough evidence then I agree, to let me know and why you think it is so and if the evidence and story are not enough to have this post exist, then by all means I will agree with you then and have it deleted. Im just trying to inform the guys in here of my experience and what happenned and to make guys more alert, so it does not happen to them. EVERYONE REMEMBER THIS..THE SCAMMERS ARE GETTING BETTER AND MORE PATIENT AND YOU CAN GET SCAMMED OIN THE PERSONAL VISIT TO YOUR GIRL TOO..I AM READING MORE AND MORE STORIES ABOUT THIS TYPE OF SCAM. If someting is "funny or fishy" about an FSU girl then you should inform others so that they do not get scammed or fall in a trap. Dont go and see your girl only after 2 months writing to her..you need to be in corespondence a lot longer than that and physically talk on the phone..even then theres no guarantee it will work out or be right..my experiance almost reached the stage of a personal visit..the trip was in planning stages but not booked. When you read the letters between the lines, apply anti-scam advice things take on a not so rosy picture and if you feel uncomfortable then dont do it with your girl..the gut instincts oiperated here and I know this girl was not genuine. aussieman41 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/27/2005 12:31:03 AM   TOAD JUST BECAUSE SHE HAS NOT BEEN CAUGHT AND WE DONT KNOW THAT BECAUSE I NEVER SAW THE GIRL IN PERSON AND ONLY HEARD A VOICE WITH NO FACE ON THE PHONE AND SHE COULD HAVE USED ANY PHOTO OR PSEUDONYM..SCAMMERS CHANGE IDENTITY AND PHOTOS WHEN PREVIOUSLY CAUGHT AND BECAUSE OF THE HUGE SIZE OF THE INTERNET ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO SAY SHE HAS NOT BEEN CAUGHT AND THEN CHANGED IDENTITIES. TOAD AND OTHERS I WAS MARRIED FOR 12 YEARS TO ANOTHER FOREIGN BRIDE AND I DID THE PERSONAL VISIT AND FIANCEE VISA PROCESS MYSELF, SO I DO KNOW PROBABLY MORE THAN MOST PEOPLE HERE. SO DONT GO MOUTHING OFF BUDDY WITHOUT KNOWING THE FACTS! aussieman41 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/27/2005 12:42:07 AM   At least Im honest with myself and took a good look at myself and applied the yard stick and rule "is it beleivable that such a young pretty thing would be genuinely interested in a man like me"" and applied the local Western women comparison and opinion and the answer is NO..SHE CANT BE GENUINE BASED ON ALL THE FACTS. A woman is a woman..does not matter what part of the world they are from..if they are of model like beauty they will not be desperate enough to genuinely want to marry a frog or a TOAD! I rest my case here. Guys be realistic about your FSU women and analyse it and see if you really would measure up to her standards and come out out of dream world and start thinking with your brains and not your penus to arrive at a logical answer to this question B E R E A L I S T I C! aussieman41 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/27/2005 12:55:24 AM   I would like to add a girl with her level of education and beauty could easily find a man in Kiev for herself and she does not need to have a Western man. She is very intelligent and highly educated and extremely good at what she does and is too clever to be caught outright and is more then smart enough to be "a Jackal"..a thing that has many identities and a Chameleon like ability to blend into the background without getting caught. Ive had my friends look at her letters to me and they arrived at the same conclusion..this girl is ????? and suspect but is too smart to have been fingered outright as a scammer at the moment but time may tell. What we need is the other 9 men who have retrieved her address ( paid for it ) to see this post and come forward and then we compare notes. Also I forgot to say..I invented a false man and borrowed a picture of a male model and wrote to her pretending to be quite financially well off..and alas her first reply to my Mr.Fake was word for word what her first reply was to me, 7 months earlier and only Mr. Fakes name stuck in once at the start of the letter and no where else. What do peole in her make of that? aussieman41 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/27/2005 1:00:41 AM   Also I have nothing personal against the girl but I am concerned shes not genuine and believe I have more than resonable grounds to think that so I am not on a vendetta or smear campaign to destroy her reputation ( I doubt this tiny post which amounts to less than a grain of sand in the whole beach that is the internet is going to destroy her or stop her ) Im just posted a warning to others to be careful if they are in contact with her based on my experiences with Elena. Norwegian Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/27/2005 5:10:18 AM   You have nothing personal against the girl? You are just a little concerned she is not genuine? Question: Why use a bazooka to shoot small birds? aussieman41 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/27/2005 8:45:08 AM   Ill rest my case here..the whole things been a lesson learnt..Im giving the partner search thing a rest for a while..don';t know about foreign brides from the fsu..Ive done this foreign bride marriage thing once and now days its become too hard and too much of an immigration hassle in Australia and its too hard to pick the real girls from teh scammers. I think this Russian bride marriage agency thing is 90% scam..considering there are thousands upon thousands of women from FSU countries with marriage agencies, you dont read of many success stories..I could count the ones Ive read from marriage agencies on my fingers and stil have a couple left...in such volumes paticular with agencies containing 10,000 or more girls profiles you think you would hear more success stories. The reality is only 4% Western men who write to FSU country women will bother to go on a personal visit and only half of that(2%) end up marrying them and then 70% of those marriages fail so here it is: 1000 Western men write to a 1000 FSU girls 40 Western men will go and visit 40 FSU girls 20 Western men will marry there FSU mail order bride 3 years latter only 6 men are stil with the FSU bride they married. Whats wrong with this picture. A lot of the FSU bride industry is scam and a lot of FSU women are scam too, hence the very low success rate of this exercise..its a giant money making machine for Russian marriage agencies and criminal organisations..the amount of money here is probably more than a small Carribean nations ( a Banana Republic ) annual GDP. Ill get my 100mm canon out and my AK47 and blast holes in this industry and bull shit...some of you men here are naive...its scam and highway robbery any f..ken way you slice it Thunderdome Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/27/2005 12:59:30 PM   Man at Work, and looking at the above you've been grafting indeed. "I would like to add a girl with her level of education and beauty could easily find a man in Kiev for herself and she does not need to have a Western man" You're right, absolutely right. Here's why: 1000 Western men write to a 1000 FSU girls 40 Western men will go and visit 40 FSU girls That leaves 960 men lacking in one or more of the following areas: know what they want, determination, honesty, fairness, the capacity to weigh & evaluate, intelligence, sense of humour, assertiveness, able to say Hi & Goodbye, showing some guts, taking a calculated risk, openness, able to judge, doing their homework, ah well, the list of those 40 donkey's in the mill in fact is endless. You bow out, you're not one of them, but should feel glad you belong to the majority, the run of the mill. Goodluck. freebird1967 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/27/2005 1:12:25 PM   The reason there are so many FSU girls at Dating agencies is they DONT HAVE HOME INTERNET.... Look at how many US girls are on the internet in Yahoo MSN ect... there are MORE American women on the internet you just dont see them all piled into one dating agency.... go look in Yahoo alone man. FSU girls HAVE to go through an Agency.... It isnt A hard thing to think out.... Do the math. I think there are more US women on the net then the rest of the world combined.... because they allmost all have access. You can find scammers anywhere... if you havent had that happen yet then you have led A sheltered life sir. GLTALLTOAD Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/27/2005 1:22:16 PM   Marrying a western woman without an iron clad prenup is the biggest scam of them all... Let me deal with the FSU visa, airline ticket, gift and 'I need money for my sick grandmother' scammers any day of the week, I say...:) toad Norwegian Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/27/2005 6:59:18 PM   And my 10 points goes to Freebird!! Scammers come in all kind of shapes... Take a look at the mail I received in my mail: PROFESSOR CHARLES C. SOLUDO. PLOT 22, A LANE,CBN ESTATE, ABUJA - NIGERIA. E- MAIL: soludo_cbn05@myway.com Attn:Sir/Madam IMMEDIATECONTRACTPAYMENT #:MAV/NNPC/FGN/MIN/009. From the records of outstanding contractors due for payment with the federal government of Nigeria your name and company was discovered as next on the list of the outstanding contractors who have not received their payments. I wish to inform you that your payment is being processed and will be released to you as soon as you respond to this letter. US$9.2 million dollars(Nine million Two hundred thousand united states dollars).As part payment, Please re-confirm to me if this is inline with what you have in your record and also re-confirm to me the followings. 1) Your full name. 2) Phone, fax and mobile #. 3) company name,position and address. 4)profession, age and marital status. 5) Copy of int'l passport. As soon as this informations are received, your payment will be made to you in a certified bank draft from central bank of Nigeria and a copy will be given to you for you to take to your bank and confirm it. Get back to me on this address: soludo_cbn05@myway.com Professor Charles C. Soludo. Executive Governor,Central Bank Of Nigeria. First of all, I have never done business in Nigeria, and for what reason should I have to name my age and marital status, and also make a copy of my passport for receiving money? And would the central bank of nigeria really use an email account that ended with : myway.com?? I know it has nothing to do with brides, but it shows that you can come across scammers everywhere in all kind of shapes. Don't be paranoid, be aware! aussieman41 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/27/2005 8:08:11 PM   I get heaps of those Nigerian scam letters and delete them and I also get heaps of million dollar internet lottery major prize winning e-mails from the Netherlands claiming I won a $1,000,000 Euro in a lottery I never entered or gave permission for my e-mail address to be used and entered and if you send $500 Euro to an accounting form in the Netherlands to process your "prize" and pay it into your bank account ( a so called processing fee ) you will never see the prize money. These kind of scams are easy to detect if you are not naive. With women its harder and less there really dumb. The majority of women scammers from the FSU and other places are really dumb and play there hand too soon and its obvious to most men ( I hope ) its a scam but still some men send money (sometimes thousands of dollars) to something that to most intelligent men is a scammer. There are a small majority..I reckon about 5 to 10% of women scammers that are really smart and patient and are the the masters of lies, manipulation and sweet talk and these are the ones we need to be concerned about and I reckon at least 10% or more of scammer women are never caught or never reported because the man is embarassed I would like to keep it hushed up. The girl I was writing to in Kiev...there were "red flags" and "warning signs" over a long period of time and it was done in a subtle way...this one is patient and smart and anyone in contact with the subject of this thread needs to be put on alert and made wary of her. You can write to a FSU girl for months and months and still be decieved and you can be fooled at the personal visit too or worse ( one English guy went to Lugansk for a so called personal visit and his girl arranged for two heavies to bash and rob him and he went back to England battered and bruised..a painful lesson..went to find a wife and came back black and blue ) Do not trust these women...if it gets as far as a personal visit ( and 96% of emn wont do it ) get a back ground detective check doner on the girl to verify she is a real person and her address etc. Do not travel to the FSU knowing only her e-mail address..you must know where she lives and who she is before you eveb consider such a trip. Lets be careful out there...FSU predators are staliking Western men like tigers in the jungle and if you are not alert, they will pounce on you. Frank Vans Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/27/2005 8:11:33 PM   Aussieman41, you might want to recheck your statistics. Actually only 20% of Russian-American marriages end up in dovorce. Your statistic of 80% ending up in divorce must be an Australian thing. aussieman41 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/27/2005 8:20:54 PM   Norwegian Im not using a bazooka to shoot small birds...probably a 100mm canon instead..rapid fire 1000 rounds a minute. Ive looked over all 55 e-mails from this girl, Elena and read between the lines and here it is. CONCLUSION: QED: Elena Rays is a slippery snake and a patient scammer type women from Ukraine..do not trust or believe it or believe it wants a man up to 45 years old as in its profile even though it has only just turned 25. CONCLUSION ( reached by my Polish friend and not me ) All Ukrainians are money hungry and not to be trusted especially the women..more than half the scammers are Ukrainian. Is there a problem between the Poles and the Uks. When writing to FSU gilrs get a second or third opinion from a trusted friend (s)..have them look at the letters from the girl because you, yourself can become too emotionally blinded and not see the scam ie not see the foreset because of the trees. freebird1967 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/27/2005 8:25:32 PM   It seems A little overdone Aussie... I think you know most of us do not go without an Address and phone number... second if you dont have some kind of alternate ideas for if things go bad then your putting all your eggs in one basket. I am going soon... I met someone I think is very nice and theres A good chance we will hit it off.... but I am simply not silly enough not to make any other contacts there. If things go south then I will still have fun and enjoy my vacation even if my contingincies all do not work out. The hard cold fact is I have not seen this girl in the flesh and until I do nothing is sure. Just like her probably writing other letters.... She would be crazy to bank everything on A guy who says he is coming but has not arrived yet.... works both ways. The other thing is it does not sound like you actually met her.... and if you send money then who can blame someone making $50 per month for taking it? You dont know if you are correct in this, and that is not fair. Travel has allways been A risk... from the time you fly until the time you arrive home.... and you can still walk through your door and have A heart attack... Life is full of risk. "FSU predators are staliking Western men like tigers in the jungle and if you are not alert, they will pounce on you." Your warning about A possible scammer is cool... a heads up is allways nice but you are making it sound like all FSU women are predators..... Man that is simply not cool. You got burned... was it that bad? Like I said if you havent been "scammed" by your own women at least once then you have been sheltered my friend. Good luck whatever you do... aussieman41 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/27/2005 8:49:19 PM   Frank it probably is an Australian thing...Ive read and heard that Aussie/Philipino bride matches are the most stable and long lasting of marriages between foreign brides and Aussies. Asian women as foreign brides are very popular here..on the immigration ladder Asian country fiancees are the first few highest in popularity..Russian and FSU girls are about the 5th most popular so they are are not so much in demand here and in 2002 only about 200 FSU fiancee visas were granted which is not much for a country of 20,000,000 people with an annual migration intake of approximately 100,000 people so FSU women are a very small minority here but they have the biggest negative publicity as scammers in the media..everyone knows here about scammers from the FSU. It seems Asian girls are much more tolerant and stick with there husbands than FSU women and these girls generally come from poorer countries. FSU girls do not have a good reputation here in Australia..the media on tv and in the newspaper has permanently tarred them all. I was married to an Asian girl for 12 years and I decided to try something different after a few years of being divorced and because I am European descent ( Hungarian and Yugoslavian blood ) I thought to try FSU gilrs as they are all over the internet and my experience has been disappointing..Elena was not the only girl I wrote to..I think about 12 girls ( 3 were actual recorded scammers who approached me first ) rest were failures for various reasons mainly language barriers etc. With Elena... you have to be wary of someone from a big city like Kiev who lists in her profile her favourite activity is to shop!..sounds spoilt and materialistic from the start..actually I did not find that out until 8 months latter when I found her other 68 profiles on the internet (all the same because WDN agencies such as Angelika web are all affiliated)..she claimed to have made a special photo for me and posted it to me ( it was the only mail postal item I ever got from her in 9 months all up correspondence ) and then 3 weeks latter after I got it she scanned it and uploaded it to Angelika web and it was listed in a photo file records upload search..I found it and when it was submitted to the site..special photo for me and then she scans it and it gets uploaded and put on 68 other marriage agency sites..what a load a bull that was! Yeah Im disappointed and crapped out by this..I did invest a lot of time on her and a small amount of money ( luckily ). NEVER MIND, LESSON LEARNT! Your Reply: Your name:   New Registration Password:   Forgot password?   refresh Code:   Russian brides > Main Forum > Does anyone know Elena Rays of Kiev..in correspondence with this girl?..she is suspect but unproven scam
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