Izi I dont think "you are fools" :):)
What I think is some men (smart and intelligent ones) do stupid things because they have illusions about so called FSU society.
How old was you? 48? Do you really belive you can learn about relations and dating from book or from message board?
I will take that as a sideways apology.
A little advice. Be careful what you say. I know you can be ascerbic and cruel at times but if you wish these men to remain a friend to you and value your advice and input watch your tongue. Your 'humor' reveals more about you than I think you realise. Stop speaking like a cossack and develop a soul.
"What I think is some men (smart and intelligent ones) do stupid things because they have illusions about so called FSU society."
Let me assure you I am very intelligent and smart. My IQ been tested and is above average. The eloquence of my posts and the fact that I moved myself around this globe with no help from anyone speaks volumes. I have not only moved I have prospered. It is the same with all the men here. Martin had his moments but I assure you there isn't one single unintelligent man here. They are to a man gutsy, brave and with few illusions or they would not even attempt this project.
I have not done anything stupid. I took a risk and was led by my heart. Not my dick my heart. The process encouraged by a loony. It was something that was completely undetectable. It could have been a woman in South Dakota, Vancouver, New South Wales or Cornwall. Same thing. It was an experience to be learned from, to be shared with others so they are aware that it could be them next.
"How old was you? 48? Do you really belive you can learn about relations and dating from book or from message board?"
I am 49 and do not need to learn anything about dating. At this point I know it all. I have lived with several women of different colors and nationalities in 2 different countries. I am an expert. There isn't anything any book can teach me. that is a little strong and somewhat arrogant but it is how I feel right now.
However insight into going to Russia to find a wife is another story. I have been there once and had contact with about 75 to 100 women. I am by no means a novice. I will handle the relationship stuff. At this point I feel I could confidently leave this forum and never look back and just get on with it on my own.
No, the reason I am here is for fun, to share what I know and to pick up pointers on how to go about this. For example the stuff about how to get from SVO2 to SVO1 was invaluable. Best methods for searching the sites was great. The pros and cons of agencies or direct contact. Famous scams. Most importantly to vicariously share in the sucesses and failures of the other guys that are here. TD and ID had relationships that went south. We learn. Tradman and Crash have had successes. We learn and we enjoy. We watch Toad, Nas and Jet and wait to see what will happen. Not in the sense of a soap opera. Not because we think that they are living a fantasy but because we share their hopes.
I could write a book about relationships, psychology and generally why we do what we do. I don't need to read another book or this forum for that. Others have took a stab at it Toad for example with the stuff about male and female energies and the hedonism thing. All gratefully accepted Annika.
Now let me ask you a question. Why are you here?
Are you hoping to learn about western men and dating? And how old are you? How many countries have you lived in? Have you dated a Latin or a black man? I am being extreme but do you get my point? We all have a reason for being here and doing what we do. Ptichka doesn't find it necessary to attack even sideways, with these comments why do you? That is why we all like her. She is extremely helpful. Your comments have done nothing to endear you to the men here. It is a shame because we need FSU women to post here and inform us not treat us like a side show for their amusement.
Ahhhh enough already. I give up. I have work to do.
What western men can learn from this forum is an endless list of DOs and DON'Ts that will help us collapse time frames and distances as well as navigate and overcome through that collosal cultural and mental barrier we often find among eastern women and even among ourselves (western men from different backgrounds.)
NONE of the things we discuss and learn in this forum come with a warranty of success to find that one woman with whom we will achieve our goals, whether it be to boink as many of them in the back of our late model van or build a monogamous relationship that will last a life time.
One of the biggest differences I learn to acknowledge when I first started looking was the 'defeat mentality' of so many FSU women and FSU people in general. For almost a century the FSU individual brain has been conditioned to believe that life does not get better, in fact it gets worse no matter how much you want it to change or how hard you work to change it. You just have to be grateful for what you have and not expect to get any more than what everyone else is geeting. Usually only a little more than nothing.
The cynicism this brews is reflected in the hopeless manner in which you present most of your comments. Also in the institutionalized corruption FSU societies live with. Books like Elena Petrova glorify this crap as 'stoicism.'
But in my never humble opinion, the only positive consequence of this defeat mentality is the relative closeness that develops within families.
The most common characteristic you will find among most men in this forum who share this quest for an FSU relationship is OPTIMISM, which is the exact opposite of the 'defeat mentality.'
For most of us, life IS GOOD!!
It will get better tomorrow as long as we have our health and an opportunity.
That way of thinking is not childish or foolish imagination. It is the reality with which we live.
I'm lucky to understand both because I come from a background of national defeatist mentality...If you ever listen to the tango lyrics you'll know what I mean, lol. Add to it the corrupted to the core influence of the catholic church and you got yourself one very fucked up national mentality.
I found one FSU woman who chose not keep her head buried in the sand among all the defeat mentality that she lives with, because she also has had the opportunity to see how the 'optimistic' world operates and she would tell you it is a better way to spend this one life we have.
Sorry you feel that way Annika. You take away thie best instructional tool that has popped up here. Your true representative attitude. Now there will be no more demonstrations, only second hand info.
You were a shining light towards the true feelings and motivation of FSU women.
Sorry you feel that way Annika. You take away the best instructional tool that has popped up here. Your true representative attitude. Now there will be no more demonstrations, only second hand info.
You were a shining light towards the true feelings and motivation of FSU women.
"What western men can learn from this forum is an endless list of DOs and DON'Ts that will help us collapse time frames and distances as well as navigate and overcome through that collosal cultural and mental barrier we often find among eastern women and even among ourselves (western men from different backgrounds.)"
This comment is so true I cannot express how much I agree with it.
In fact that whole post is one of the most important I have ever seen here. The true nature of the beast. Our real diffrences. Marina caused our relationship to collapse by her distrust. She tried to get cute (I'll give her the benefit of the doubt) because of her inherent sense of inadequacy. Bizarre really becaus she was beautiful, intelligent and with a potentially lovely daughter. Her fucked upness ruined a chance for a better life for her daughter and herself. Like as not she is out of the game now. She is doomed to a life in snow, ice, poverty and constant misery. ALONE. Her loss not mine. I will go on to use this new found knowledge to make sure I don't take on any more baggage laden FSU women.
I will get what I want or I won't get. Simple. I am looking for a wife not a burden. I want a helpewr and lifemate not someone I have to nurture back to mental health.
The good news is that I am absolutely convinced that the wife-woman exists. One that wants the man to be a man, a husband. She wants to make dinner and doesn't think that is strange. She doesn't mind going to work and contributing to our common welfare. To her she is proud to clean the house and select new drapes. In other words a honest to god real woman. The real thing not some feminazi who disguses herself as the real thing only to spring on her prey later.
She is oput there in Russia or Ukraine. My odds of findine her sky rocketed when I embarked on this journey.
And as I was explaining to someone this morning that thought I was crazy - I HAVE CHOICE.
the very thought of it is heady stuff.
Lol. Think I'd better bonk this 'van bonking' myth on the head before it becomes
accepted currency. ;-)) Sorry to disappoint but there was just the one fsu female in the van and I never drove in Russia.
I think once again Annika was joking.
Clearly you have a crusading wind in your sails, yet is everything you say valid? How do you know Marina will stay alone? What happened to Gerhard? Aren't you railing at her simply because your feelings are hurt? Isn't this a woman you were prepared to marry? Was everything about her an illusion?
It may well be that she is not perfect but then who is? (Toad, don't answer that..!!) I wonder whether she would have followed through on her marriage to you and been a good wife and mother and her dalliance with Gerhard was simply hedging her bets? After all, how could that relationship survive if she was settled in another continent with you? Maybe she did not have confidence in the outcome. Or you? How old is she? How many chances does she think she has left?
Like you, I would have headed for the door, so I don't disagree with your actions. It's now though that I wonder about. You had what.. 3 and a half months courting her? This is not love. Real love is years of shared experience and starts when the the giddiness of romantic love fades (IMHO). By publicly turning her crimes over and over in your mind you may just be setting yourself up to lean too far in the opposite direction with the next one and that could be the ONE! :-))
Marina doesn't deserve any more mention, Izi, or your time.
I don't buy 100% into the DOs and DONTs.. Those plagiarised 'Tablets of Stone'. My rebellious nature says life is too chaotic, people are too unpredictable and I will plough my own furrow thank you very much. If I get stiffed for $30 for 'internet calls'. So what? I think that getting married after only a few short weeks together is a far greater risk than sending a few dollars.
For a first meeting I might just cough up for some perfume. I did that for a lady I met in Moscow and would have been better off drinking it! I walked the following day. We failed to hit it off, despite weeks of writing and phone calls. Like yours, she was withdrawn and uncommunicative. I must have been a hell of a disappointment!
It's one thing buying gifts within reason. It's another matter, as has been pointed out, sending $1500 to someone you have never met, for 'the Visa'.
Toad is a self-confident man. Perfectly happy with himself and his choices. He seems to lack any self-doubt at all. . Yet, who is to say that he isn't making a mistake? How many times have you felt a couple were joined at the hip, then surprised to hear they had broken up? It's only in the long run, we will know and the variables of personality, life events, 'growth', reactions, morals, family, etc,, make it impossible to predict who will stick and who wont.
I agree with Annika's statement about learning about life from books and other's experiences (this board). Very few of us are able to do that. It may be that YOU have learnt an important lesson from YOUR experience. Telling us about your experience is informative and I'm sure we are united in thinking 'There, but for the grace of God, go I'. But I can't help feeling that no amount of words will make a difference to the rest of us. You had ALL of that advice at hand BEFORE you met Marina. Most notably from the toadlet. If you watched a gripping human drama unfold on TV, would it change your behaviour? Why do you think your words will change anyone else's?
I stand by my conviction that we are just a bunch of talking heads. A clubby support group (when we are not clubbing each other).
Maybe it's good that you burn off your disappointment in writing in this forum. You'll be fighting fit and ready to direct that new charge of energy and positivity into a lady that is more worthy of you. ;-)) QC
What scares me is that the names you have mentioned for these ladies who turn out to be crazy or self centered or just plain evil are popular FSU names. I am writing with a Marina. I hope it is not the same crazy lady.
I think what I am coming to understand is that there is no magic to this FSU thing other than the appearance of many of these ladies is far better than those available in USA on dating sites. But, they are the same mix of personalities that you find anywhere. I was hoping for the fast track to success. But having read these stories I also realize that I am in for a long journey which will require many months of searching and probably multiple trips to have any reasonable assurance that I am bringing home a life long partner.
What makes me laugh about some of these ladies deserting their months long investment in a relationship because the person they are writing with lost his job is that in America if you had a high paying job it is likely you will have another one soon. So, abandoning you because you lost your job is pretty stupid on their part. It shows a lack of vision and understanding and you are better off without someone like that anyway.
Thanks everyone who posts on these forums for all the great information you have shared. Through all the wise cracks I am still learning a lot and I appreciate it.
nothing wrong with being relatively new, but that name-remark exposes you a bit.
Only a few names do the rounds in the FSU, for male and females both, and you just may want to look on http://members.aol.com/MHoll/Writing_Page/names.html
This list is not complete however does list the majority I'd say.
If you want to learn, always a good start is to go to www.womenrussia.com . This site may well be called a 'classic', but do use your own judgement instead of swallowing all verbatim. It is affiliated to a commercial site which does have a good reputation, of which the word 'commercial' should be remembered first.
Couple of things
QC you have missed the point haven't you. I have stated it several times. This story of Marina and I is instructive. The details don't matter, he said, she said, him, her. Who cares. Nobody. What is important is that somebody like SoccerDad picks up on the nuances of this and doesn't repeat them.
As for the love thing. Yeah I got hurt and it wasn't 3 and a half months it was double that. But nowadays I get over it fast. I have done my wallowing in beer many years ago in my teens and 20's. I am a grown up and I recover. You were expecting slashed wrists?
Also it was the daughter that was sullen not Marina.
Marina has not commited any crimes she is a nut. Not criminal. Frankly I doubt there was a Gerhard. Her mind is strange I have seen her twisted logic before. I have no idea what she will do in the future all I know is that it won't be with me.
I am not turning over this situation in my mind actually I have 5 beautiful women in contact with me right now and more if I want. I am going to be a lot less intuitive and a great deal more of a Sherlock Holmes in the future. I am looking forward and not backwards I am sorry I will not go into mourning.
When I was exiled from the United States for 10 years I was in shock. I couldn't think. It was the act of quickly putting into place all the things that I knew and getting busy that pulled me out of it FAST.
Marina doesn't deserve any more mention?? Of course she does. The lessons learned here are for all to see and her name is attached to them. She doesn't get any more time or rent free space in my head I have dismissed her. If that makes me heartless and not genuine I take issue. I am a grown up and I bounce back. I agree real love takes years and years. I know I was married for 12. It was because of that I wanted out. I really got to know her. :))
I am not on a crusade here. Read what I say and take it or leave it believe me I am fine and Marina is fading into the distance fast. I have moments now and then but that is all it is and I prefer to think of the cute woman in Chelaybinsk, the doctor in Moscow, the dolly in Oddessa, those legs in Balakhna or that nice woman in Gomel. Marina's loss not mine.
The deal is I have come to some conclusions. My thinking has crystalised. Marina was very influential. So is the forum, my private emails, articles I read but mostly the bahaviour of the women themselves. These 5 women I have mentioned I do not trust one inch. Let me give it another 3 months and let us see. I refuse to go into mourning I am getting busy instead.