I have been a observer of this forum for at least several months learning a lot and never really contributing. I have found that there are very few friends, relatives or associates who you can talk to or bare your soul if you are in love or involved with a woman of the FSU who will not just give you a knowing look or a sarcastic response and have absolutely any idea of what you mean or how you got here and sometimes you just need to talk to a few kindred souls who know what you feel.
That preamble aside....13 months ago i met over the internet a lovely (very young) ukranian girl, Alana, I did not meet her through a fiance site like this but rather in a way that some people who knew nothing of the FSU would look down their noses at . She is a student in dnepropetrovsk from a small poor village outside of there studying foreign relations (kinda appropriate),over the course of the next 6 months through the wonders of the internet and video conferencing developed a amazingly strong relationship with. Her occupation relied on communicating with many men and bascially telling them what they wanted to hear,including me. We both knew it and we were both very honest and straightforward about it .Last January i was suppose to go to kiev to meet her but do to faults of my own(messy divorce)it never happened, but our relationship continued from there . Finally with a lot of convincing and my financial assistance i was able to get her to quit her work and continue with her studies. I never deluded myself to believe that is was the power of my charm that made her quit..but rather my assistance. She told me herself that she would return to it if i couldnt help her say "what am i to do.....go back to the villages...leave school.....not send money to my parents......I must do what i must do ".She epitoimizes a lot of young attractive poorer woman from the ukraine (including several of her friends i have gotten to know ....who at least 3 were in the same work as she and are woman on other bride websites) They trade on their beauty ,their personality and their appeal to get by. They are mature far beyond their years and have seen firsthand things that many of us have either never considered or dont want to know still exist......as she told me once "you are american you dont know what it is like to be really poor and not want to be that way anymore'
The more self righoutous of us would say that there must be a better way there are many occupations for young woman in the FSU that dont require you to compromise you principals.......there pricipals are of survival and hope with education for a chance at a better life. To that i say ...we can see no farther than our own lives . In the ukraine sexual harrassment at the work place is considered part of the ethos .....truly a parlor game for the "boys". She tells me that the young beautiful woman from the village without a education have very few opportunities other than marrige to men that either dont appreciate them , drink ,dont hold steady jobs or potentially abuse them , or as a mistress for a older man ( which seems to be a very accepted practice there) until your looks give out or he finds someone new.
That is the allure to many of these woman to men from the west....they offer stability ,protection,support and the potential for a better life....who could ever blame them . I have come to have a great respect for the inner strength as well as the outer beauty that these woman have ( i have heard almost the same stories from her friends who i have communicated with over the last year...who had nothing to gain from me and no real reason to lie).
I have a relationship now that i value very much , I have herculean phone bills :))) ...we talk at least twice a day.....and if the stars remain aligned i will finally be with her in late september for a week and about every 2 months for a week until i can bring her home with me.
I know a lot of people in this forum are winking at each other say that i have been hit with the scam of all time ...but my intuition tells me no....I only hope my intuition is right.
I applaud everyone on this forum who has had the strength and the faith to go forward and meet this amazing woman...i think in some ways they can teach us all a little bit about life and in the end about ourselves.
I SWEAR never to write any post this long ever again
nomad nomad. I totaly understand what you are saying and yes, we are nearsighted. I comunicated with a girl on icq for 7 months. talked to her on the phone. I knew her, she was all I wanted. smart, funny, understand and beautiful. I wanted to meet her so much, and she wanted it too. We met, I cannot stand her in real life. I am sorry but I have come to the conclusion that no amount of writing, chat or phone calls reviels the real person. All the stories they tell you are the truth, but there version of it. I have been to fsu 5 times and life is realy not that bad. As for being poor, africa is poor and they would give anything to be like fsu. The gates to fsu are closing it seems, all in the big cities are happy to stay. Most who want to go overseas would prefer a european country from the girls I have talked to. sure usa still has big appeal but not as much as before. Kasahkstan girls want to leave because russian will soon not be the national language and all will be changing within the next 10 years there. Russia in not so bad and maybe the smaller southern cities in uraine are worth a look in my opinion. Please do not fall in love on the net or the phone. I know its hard as I am very disapointed with my latest meeting. she was demanding, marterialistic and cranky. totaly opposite to the girl I cam e to know on the net and the phone. I am not bitter, but maybe a bit tired HA HA. I think I will end my search here. Do not know what to do next
i am sorry to hear, that you hadnīt success with your girl.
you should take the advice of id very serious. there are exceptions, but you will know a girl only if meeting this one personally. and i go further to say, that you will learn the other person only finally and really, when she is with you in your own home.
by the way, nomad, i consider it a bit strange, how you act here on this forum. me personally i do not search for a lady. but i hope to give some advices about eastern europe, the mentality and the ladies there for those, who need it. it would be great from you, not only to be an observer, but also a contributer with good advices from your experiences to the community here....
You swear? Pls don't, it's an interesting post.
Yeah, you should go & see for yourself what becomes of the relationship you think you've got. I'm sure you also will know that tete-a-tete is quite different than virtual, but as said find out. Plenty of guys have been lucky, and consider yourself this if it works. Also if it doesn't, but then just remember that bad luck is a given for those who don't even try.
If I may suggest something then read. I consider having a so-called 'backup plan' for those who by deafult are insecure. They do have little trust in either her or themselves, and having such plan quite likely will affect your attitude whilst being there. Go for a holiday with her, and just play tourist if things really sour. You'll be relaxed and yourself, and that's all you can ask for. If one has to weigh the expense against a return then those are playing high stake poker, but only you will know if you are a wealthy gambler.
Doubt it though, and know I would not mind to hear the outcome. Best of luck.
find myself in agreement with TD,the "back-up" plan has it's own drawbacks....not least being the lack of trust shown,and these ladies can spot that a mile off.Go for it...wholeheartedly,if it doesn't work so what,it's not the end of the world and you will still have had a good holiday.
Your lady does sound genuine,but only a visit will truly reinforce that fact.I too am eager to know about the outcome.......best wishes to you.
thanks for you advice, i know falling in love over the net is a fools errand but the romantic part of my soul couldnt help myself, i know when i look her in the eye and spend a couple of days with her i will know ......no one is that good a actress:)
thanks for you input as well...the only reason i have not contributed before is i have just limited experinece that i dont know if i have much to offer...over the next year or so if things work well i can make more of a contribution
I hope i am lucky rather than good....i am flying with my intuition for now and hope for once it doesnt fail me..I have one an only one plan for now ..no backup if this doesnt work i will return again maybe with a different attitude. you are right money comes and goes ...love if its there is priceless.....i would doubt myself forever if i didnt find out
limited experience can be just as valuable to many here,and by expressing your fears/hesitations etc etc,will no doubt prove very helpful to others.Any and all contributions are welcome,especially as informative as your post above.
I for one hope you are lucky,you have a refreshing view of all that lies before you.
Once again good luck.
This is a very good thread.
I believe what you have said Nomad. Marina said the same thing to me. She maintained that 95% of the women were just looking for an escape or to financially improve themselves. Only 5% were looking for just love. As far as men were concerned they were looking for younger beautiful women that they could not find at home. All true I think.
However it is interesting that so many of these relationships breakdown because of an unwillingness of the FSU woman to cooperate in some way. Therefore they can't be that desperate can they?
I know of many instances of this now. They won't do this or that and it ends.
I have had some Chinese women write to me lately and to be honest I am utterly not interested but I can tell you this that they really are motivated. They are definitely trying to escape. They want out in a big way.
Then we come to the face to face issue. I wholeheartedly agree with this concept. Writing and calling means absolutely nothing. It is a complete waste of time.
I fly to Kherson on 3rd September. I am going to work with an agency and have also lined up several women myself. It is a roll of the dice. However I would much sooner meet a woman and have dinner with her than write for 4 months and then find out she has an explosive temper, lives like a slob and is cynical to a pathological level.
At least this way I have a shot. If I find a woman that I like I will spend the rest of my time with her and get to know her better. The flaws will come out quite quickly I think.
So my approach now is one giant back up plan. It is expensive going out there and for those that have unlimited funds to throw at this fine stick to one woman and have a little vacation. For me if I want a vacation FSU is the last place I would want to go. Kherson is not really high up on my to do list.
If I don't meet anyone over there then I will consider the trip a failure and it will be a while before I do it again.
I am not going because I am interested in their architecture or the theater. No I go to find a future companion for the rest of my life.
I do think that many of these women want to escape but it is not that desperate that they will compromise to the Nth degree. This is coupled with the fact that there are not just a few guys involved in this anymore. There are tons of blokes writing and visiting. An entire industry has sprung up. Yes some is scam stuff but the majority is quite genuine. Everything from flower delivery to apartment renovation and rental. It is huge.
So these women have choices. They do not have to latch onto the first uy and just go with it. No way.
This is from the website of the agency I am using. Very truthful I think.
"With the more popular of catalogues you will be writing women who will have received probably a minimum of 50 other letters from men, but more than likely, on average, she has received letters from 140 men. The most beautiful of these ladies can receive 400 to 600 letters. Do you like these odds? Do you want to be one of 100, or even be one of 20 men writing the same lady? When a lady has received 70 or 80 letters, she has read from many men, many of which are wealthy, who promise these beauties many things, and every thing."
So why bother writing. Pointless. Marina got tons of mail. She is /was very beautiful. She told me she could have men see her all the time. She received lots of attention. She also would concur with Nomad about the sexual harassment thing. It was an everyday part of her life. So sure they want out but they are not going to go with just anybody and they know how to work it.
Anybody that is not aware of that is plain foolish.
There is a caveat though. Women that are older or who have a child, I believe, are a lot less likely to be playing the dating game.
I have one who is 40 has no kids but obviously wants a family. Totally different than some of the younger ones I have talked to. The older ones have experienced communism and real want and need. Thes younger ones even with a child haven't. They are picky, rude and defintitly game players. Throw the Moscow/St Pete/Kiev factor in and I walk right by them. I also agree with ID that southern Ukraine is the place to go. I also will not keep this up forever. If I do not find someone very soon I will change direction completely. Life is too short to waste countless thousands on trips to FSU when there is the entire Latin American world to explore.
I am increasingly becoming disillusioned with all this. It just sort of lines up with ID's statement above and what I have seen with other forum members relationships.
I contacted a woman in Kherson who said she would like to meet me. Now I get told If I have the time.
So much for the women there being 'willing'.
No this is more and more becoming a ridiculous one way street. If I go to Kherson and it doesn't work out I am done.
And another from Ukraine. Doesn't reply to my letter from ages ago, I contact again eventually she reponds. By then I have made plans to go to Kherson. She is pissed. "I don't know what I want". yes of course but it ids ok for her to keep me or somebody else dangling while she dicks around.
This is exactly what I am talking about. They are starting to get the upper hand and it is showing. A la American women.
I really dont know you but i have gotten the impression from reading your post that you have at a couple of bad experiences that have jaded you on the whole thing, I am lucky that i have not had the benefit of that experience yet.
I think i kinda came to this a little backwards from most of the people in this forum ...rather than deciding i was going to find a girl from the FSU ....i found a girl and she just happened to be ukranian....in the process of trying to learn more about her ...her culture... I found what made them special , at least to me, the female cultural ethos there of a degree of maturity beyond there years , a sense of family , sense of commitment,depth of personality and a lack on the whole of the superficial me -centric attitudes that many american woman have that have made men look elsewhere.
I guess i look at the woman of the ukraine like a field of flowers that you chose because you felt good around them and like the way they looked....unfortunately in every field you have more than a few weeds and you hope you dont have to pick too many until you find the flowers. I guess what i am saying is your going to find selfish , selfabsorbed ,superficial woman no matter where you look in this world ...just hopefully you find fewer here. You have to kiss a bunch of frogs before you find one "princess"...and sometimes one mans frog is another mans princess.
I am sure you will say i am naive and maybe in a couple of months i will look at this another way with a attitude like you ....but i hope not
I have been at this for a while, I have made one visit to Russia to visit one lady. We had a relationship for 8 months. It was stormy and she destroyed it in the end for no good reason that I can see. Yes both myself and my bank manager consider that a failure and a waste of money.
And please nobody start with the 'you shouldn't count the cost of this', spare me.
Prior to that lady, since and briefly during I have come into contact with hundreds of women. Gobs of problems. Not one or two problems - cartloads.
However, it has to be said that much of that has been to do with my approach. Also the sources where I have been looking. Quite simply I would say that for every woman that is listed on the internet somewhere with good English and all the goodies we are looking for there are 20 or 30 more that are not listed but just as equally want a foreign husband.
I am jaded, true. I have not quit - yet.
I want to repeat this because some of the new readers will not have seen what I have written about this before. Although I find FSU women extremely attractive and I am sure that there is definitely one special one there somewhere for me they are not the only fish in the sea.
I live in Fort Lauderdale, I speak quite good Spanish.
The largest number of women seem to be Russian, followed and lagging by many thousands is Ukraine. Then all the other FSU countries. However without any doubt the real second place to the Russian women in numbers is Colombia.
In many ways they mirror Russian values and desires. I am very comfortable in Latin culture and do not need an interpreter, I don't need a tour. Maybe an agency.
What I am talking about is the path of least resistance. I don't like (generally speaking) American women, English women leave me cold so I look abroad. However my point is that the FSU is not the only place to look. For me in many, many ways it is far simpler and cheaper to go to Central or South America. Just like NOR with Estonia I can go for the weekend.
You see my point? I am indeed jaded and I don't believe a fraction of what the websites say. Generally speaking the women in Ukraine and everywhere else do not want a man that is 15, 20 years or older than themselves. It is a myth.
It happens but generally it is a myth.
Also the fact that they are not concerned about money, only the goodness of your heart. Again myth.
I can go on but I won't. All I am saying is that this is not as easy as some would have us believe. The streets are not paved with female gold.
It is a massive effort.
It is a massive expense.
Very few members in this forum have opened themselves up to allow others inside their world. To reveal real time problems and share their feelings and solutions as I have.
Some feel I am foolish others have found it useful. I will continue to expose myself this way. I am merely a representative, hundreds feel like me I am just one guy putting a voice to it.
I express doubts and the down side. I am just as willing to speak about the up side.
However right now I see more problems than enough. Why I say this I do not want to reveal because it is the experiences of friends not just myself.
I just say beware, that this is not the only path and don't be sucked in by a few success stories and articles on websites.
Meanwhile I enjoy hearing the success of Nasfan, Gladiator, Tradman, Maxi as much as the next guy. However not one of those relationships happened overnight and the age differenece was realistic in each case. Sensible guys who have taken a lot of trouble, a lot of time, educated themselves and exercised good judgement. Definitely not easy stuff.