Well, I'm soory to say that the psycholgy of western women extends to western men, most just want a mistress or think that this is a way to get a trophy. Sad I know, but please dont think that it extends to all because it doesn't. Some of us are adults and understand that women have wants and needs like us, and we have the respect that is shown to us by FSU women. It's up to you to know yourself and it is your choice to have relations with a descent man, so chose wisely and take care of yourself first. If you are not sure of you then you cannot be sure of a relationship with some one else. Dating like this is difficult for all, but it is just the beginning. When you meet some one you will know if they are for you or not. Follow you instincts, you will know. If it doesn't feel right it probably isn't.
Goodness! I created this new post at midday today, and now there are already two pages of answers.
Well, before reading through them (as eager as I am to do so), and before I forget, it occured to me...
Jim said he thought eastern women were worse in so many important ways than western, and then said his reason for thinking so, besides his evident observation, "Why are there so many sites for female Russian scammers, and ZERO for other countries?"
Of course because it works with Russia. It makes sense. It would only work if there were indeed something real behind it, unless it were tapped into something real.
Who are we to conclude that, given the same "russian" circumstances, western women wouldn't do the same thing.
Necessity is, after all, the mother of invention, so if Russian women have learnt they can dupe American men out of money, they probably do not flinch at scamming us, rationalizing it thus, "Well they have so much money they have to stuff it in their ears, anyway. They won't miss the money."
That perception of American men, that we have tons of money, is probably amplified by some of the agencies.
Besides, if Jim primarily investigates Russian scam artists, then maybe he mixes more with those types, so his perception might be distorted.
And if that is truly his gossamer thread of logic, with all due respect to Jim, that Russian women are worse than American women because there are more Russian female scammers than American female scammers, then that is tantamount to saying, "American women are fatter because they have less self-control." Instead, the truth is more likely to prove that they are fatter because there is less need in America to exercise the body, and more unhealthy food around, and many other reasons, which, if present in another non-American culture, would produce the same fat people.
It is not, then, that all the women there are conniving and cruel, it is just that the few who are (or the many who are, yet are outnumbered by the ones that are not), have contracted this widespread habit of scamming American men out of there deep pockets.
Thank you all again for your replies; I am very grateful.
Lux, it apppears to me me that you are not real. if you think this is just a game go the hell home. No one has time for your games. You can spout off all you want but if you continue to lie then we will all know. I read your posts and all I think is what an asshole. Ladies here is an example of bullshit at it's best. He says alot, but says nothing. Typical male bullshit. I have been there and done that and wont do it again.
I don't understand what I'm saying that's offending you people. Please tell me one thing I said that should've offended you.
You should be applauding me for still seeking the truth in spite of some apparent doubt.
I'm new here, and all I get from you is your intolerable hatred obviously stemming from your own insecurity. If you really believed in this, why should you feel so threatened?
You are cussing at me and calling me names when I never said anything about anyone here.
Where could you possibly see me lie, when I'm confused myself? I'm the one who's trying to find out what's true and who's lying, so you can shut it, ghost.
And another thing: why when I drop into the forum for the russian ladies and ask questions to them, does the administrator promptly tell me that I can find the answers in this forum, as if I'm not invited there, or I'm not supposed to see something?
P.S. For the record, in spite of how I've been treated in this newbie bashing forum, I am still planning my life around marrying a Russian lady. I am not a pessimist. I am not a realist. I am an optimist. That is why I dream of a happy life with a happy wife and happy chilren. At the same time, I have made many huge decisions in my life, and I've come very close to making huge wrong decisions. Recognizing this optimism and eagerness to step forward when something looks good, I have made a conscious effort to be methodical and exacting before making a pivotal decision. So excuse me for trying to be careful.
I wouldn't be as charitable as Toad, giving him credit for his honesty. If you found each other on a marriage site and he's telling you after two months that, "oh, by the way, i'm only looking after a mistress" he's definitely a bad apple. What would you think about such a man in the FSU? If he just wants a mistress, there are websites targeting erotic dating. He should have also told you from the start.
Another thing I've learned from living abroad for the past 16 years is that culture is not much excuse. If certain behavior would be odd in your own culture, very likely it's the same in the other one.
My whole purpose for creating this post was for someone to REASSURE ME or set me straight, but then instead casper just spits in my face. You don't even know me or where I've been, Casper. I was DEFENDING the integrity of the russian woman, and attacking Jim's logic. You obviously neither read nor understood my message, Casper.
Speaking of some of the guys ahead of us ruining it for the rest of us. I met a girl in a clothing shop. After some polite conversation using her broken English and my broken Russian I asked her if she would like to meet sometime. She refused. She said I am nothing but a sex tourist. I was shocked! Hadn't been hit with that one yet. But it would seem from the above thread that we Romance seekers are getting a bad reputation over there. One more obstacle we don't need!
Lux, just wanted to comment that although I was the one who recommended you to check out Jim's list, keep looking at everything you read with a critical eye (as you're doing). Although it's Information, there is a conflict of interest with Jim's list in that he takes advertising money from the websites he recommends. Likewise, I'm sceptical about Elena's recommendations (from Elena's models) as she may have struck a deal with with some competitors to promote each other. What I'm trying to say is that you need to patch information together from many different sources.
Regarding becoming cynical in the face of all the negative stories, I recommend checking out the women's forum of fiance (link posted here recently on the forum), using a free russian-English translating software like worldlingo.com. It's extremely informative and reassuring. You'll find there's plenty of women there with honest intentions. Even if 99% of women are honest, the 1% of very prolific scammers can ruin the reputation for all the rest.
As for Casper's unprovoked attacks, frankly, I thought this forum was generally way above average in terms of people staying civil. Let's keep it that way.
It is good that you are investigating and I agree with you Casper has absolutely no right to attack you so. We have had too much of that stupid nonsense in the past. So Casper can it.
The reason that I responded the way that I did is because we have had a number of people in the past come into the forum and just continually put down the FSU women/mariage thing and then usually leave. It is very irritating to those who have sunk time, money and energy into this successfully.
I have been to both Russia to see one lady and recently to Ukraine on a small tour and met the lady I am currently with. I am going back to see her in November and if all is well I shall be starting the paperwork.
In other words I know what I am talking about. I have been in contact with so many women that I lost count. I would put it at maybe 150 to 200 in about 14 months.
Amongst my fellow forum members I am an amateur, a rank beginner!! There are guys here that have learned to speak some Russian, travelled there numerous times and to multiple cities.
In other words we know that this guy and his website is a lot of hogwash. We know because we have been and experienced.
I do not criticise you for doing your homework as you describe it. That is a good thing BUT by your own admnission you have not spent any money yet (don't blame you for that:) and only 'lurked'.
You must lay a few dollars down stop lurking and speak to some women. It is the only way. Do not believe what any website says. As I have told you before ONLY believe what you read here from these guys who are up to their tushes in women/process/travel. They know what they are talking about.
Do we make mistakes?
You bet we do I have made a doozy in the past but I went on. It is far too easy to be swayed by some professional doom and gloomer with a website. He runs it for profit not to give a benefit to the world.
The first time a beautiful Russian girl speaks to you and tells you about herself with that cute accent you will melt and realise that they are not all scammers and con artists. The percentage is very small and compared to American women non existant because ALL AW are. They are experts on alimoney (or as I like to call it All Your Money) child support for fun and profit and how to strip a mans dignity to the bone.
You will find that RU women are so different from that concept it will make your head spin. So stop dicking arund, jump on in the water is fine. :))
Thanks for support! It was a site of dating, but in his profile is written: " Still it isnít dissolved yet. I live one with children ". Also it is the truth.
It is necessary to ask the important questions on the purposes and plans for the future of the man in the first letter. My delicacy and naivety has ruined me! Naivety is a distinctive quality of slavic girls.
It is insulting he didnít deign to answer me.
Important intelligent and friendly to be separated. Alas! My attempts to make it had no success.
Who is angry that is wrong!
There is one more moment. This my friend on correspondence 2 weeks ago seriously was ill. I supported him in every way, very much worried for him, even have lost dream for this reason. (We had really very much close and warm relationship).
It was found out, that he is sick for a long time. He has transferred heavy surgical operation 1 one year ago and lives on tablets constantly. He hid it.
It more a complicated question: to speak whether or not, when to speak. But it already is a question of ethics. He has the right to be happy.
No hard feelings, Casper. We're all on the same side after all, moving towards the same goal..
I have indeed set aside a savings account to fly there, which will be my first time out of the states. I don't really think I'll be financially ready to marry for a couple years, by which time I'll have my career more in order and my credit more worthy. But in the meantime I can work on my Russian and acquaint myself with their culture.
I will probably be able to fly out there this coming summer.
Of course, as you have said, the first step is to communicate with these women, so by the time the weekend's over, I intend to finally commit to one site and use it to communicate.
I think there is a Russian proverb to the effect, "If you chase two rabbits, both will escape," or "The donkey standing equidistant between two buckets of water thirsts to death (because he deliberates to much, and is not a donkey of decisive action)."
Lux, I wish you the best and as others have said, you must get started. I applaud your courage and caution but do not believe all the doomsday folks. There is a new world just on the other side of the pond and the ladies are beautiful, sincere and family oriented. I found mine by letter writing and then visiting that one that I choose and it worked fantastic for me. I am not a social animal so the group tours would have been a complete waste of time. Speaking of a waste of time, I would not seriously write any of these ladies until you are ready to committ to marriage. These ladies are not looking for pen-pals, they are seeking family and if you are not ready to committ or maybe only ready in 3 years, IMHO-it is a mistake and a bit cruel to talk with these women unless you are painfully clear you have no plans of marriage for at least some set period of time.
this will be expensive, expect to spend minimum of $10K to meet your future love and get her to the states. You do not need that money today but it will cost that in the end; some may have done it for half and I have spent more. It has been worth every dime I have spent, I would never return to my former dating life with local ladies-and I dated many fine girls but no one like my girl in Belarus.
This is regarding what Sailor has said about the 3 years thing and pen pals. He is absolutely right. I had a slight confusion with the lady I am with - a misunderstanding which is totally corrected now. The agency wrote me this on her behalf.
"She takes your relations very seriously. She worries how long your
relations will last till the marriage because she is already 35 years old and if it will last for several years and then you will say that she is not good enough for you, for her such situation is impossible , because she'll get older and will have less chances to get married.
Also her child is growing and she wants to have a real family for her child."
Now remember this is a woman that I spent 9 days with and canoodled with many times. Still she was worried. This wasn't some email paper chase. I was actually there on the spot holdng her hand and kissing her. This is how they think. She didn't realise that I was organizing myself in the States to come back and that I hadn't had time to grab another flight, send her some money, book the time off from work etc. She is insecure and scared and she actually told me she was 'worried' when I was there. When asked about what she said that I would not return.
Soooooo as Sailor says they are interested in marriage not pen pals for a couple of years. They don't consider they have time for that. The clock is ticking.
Of course you might find a friend out of this in the process I have myself. A lady in Kharkov and another in Hungary I am buddies with. The one in Kharkov we swap tips and I even helped her with her photos and profile. However this is rare. Mostly they want to get on with it. So get those ducks in a row and start quacking :))
I can only presume that you are a journalist.
For someone, supposedly, just starting out on this process it seems that you are spending hours each day reading, then hours each day posting, when in reality you should be acting like a kid in a candy store occupying this time browsing the thousands and thousands of profiles.
Please tell us what you need for your report or the book you are writing and I'm sure, tongue in cheek, we shall do our best to oblige.
Thank you all, again. If by "journalist" you are speaking figuratively, you may be right. I journal more than most people, writing in my "diary" about events and conversations I've had with people. I am very in interested in people, and view "trivialities" as precious, so I try to capture them so as not to forget those magic moments in my life.
Maybe that can be a weakness in me as well as a strength.
My tendency, Martin, is to browse the profiles of these women, but I consciously, rightly or wrongly decided, "I should not spend my time looking through the profiles till I'm absolutely certain that Russian is the way to go, and not, say, Latin or Phillipine, etc. And also because I first need to save enough money to actually follow through once I've met Miss Right."
Of course I would be upfront with a lady about my ability to fly there and meet her and even bring her back. I've gathered that those ladies probably prefer someone older, anyway, and although I'm American, I'm only 24 and not as stable as they might imagine an American man is.
I haven't mentioned this to many people, but my reluctance has been fed by and partly due to the naysayers to whom I've mentioned this venture, and who have warned me the typical advices, "They just want to escape their country, and then when they get here, they'll see you're not so unique and hit the road, blah blah blah."
There was however one man, about 50 yrs old, who seemed to understand, though, and he thought it was a good idea.
I'm probably listening to the wrong people.
I am perhaps overintellectuallizing this. And maybe that is because it will take a huge investment from me to save that $10K, and also devote so much time to learning Russian (which I personally feel is important, so I can identify with her and I don't really think it would be fair to expect to speak only my own native language with her once we are married.
I just got out of college a couple years ago, so financially, as I said, I'm just starting out, and marriage is a huge step no matter who you are. It's a decision that spreads over eternity, according to my worldview.
I am not the type who would be cruel to anyone. I am considerate of people, a giving and forgiving person, and weigh my actions carefully before acting, to be sure they won't hurt someone else.
If I should expect it will take $10K, I'm sure much of that is for the lawyers and such. But I've seen the do-it-yourself kits advertised, and with my determination and patience and thoroughness when it comes to learning, that could probably save me a ton of money.
I realize there are threads in this forum about that kit, and I know someone will tell me to look at those before asking a question that's already been answered, so I will dip into those right now...