Izzi,
I think your approach and setting out your questions for her to answer in this way is smart. You have your needs that must be met and answered. She should be worried about what kind of pies she should be baking for you and knowing she will have hot water and heat and someone who will take absolute care of her and her son.Love will follow. Her going back should be the last thing on her mind . In fact i would have never laid that question out for her to answer in the first place. You know in your heart you would go bact to Kherson with her down the road on occasion when it permits and the dust is settled . Hell , when i was dating Oksana she said she had no intention of coming back to visit when i asked her that question . She said what for ? A new door has opened. Izzi, if you start remodeling your house again and adding additions on before she comes here i will personally come to Florida and choke you
I had a similar experience with a girl that I dated the summer before last. We spent about 10 days together, did many things together and had a nice time, but she was really holding back emotionally (and physically). The agency owner said that she was waiting for me to ask her to marry me and commit to getting a visa. She said that it was normal for Russian girls to be reserved until they have a committment, etc...
Well, at the end of my trip I left her city for a few days, but then decided to go back, surprise her and ask her to start the paperwork. She still wasn't very open emotionally. The agency owner told me that it would be different once she came to the U.S. *Then* I'd really get to know her and see that she was dedicated to the relationship.
I went home, and like you, my feelings started to cool. It is a big leap to take when you haven't seen the kind of response or enthusiasm in the other person that you are feeling. On top of that, the expense, hassle, and emotional investment of doing the fiance visa paperwork is not something that I wanted to do just to see what would happen later. I needed to know beforehand that this girl was really, deeply interested in me, and I just didn't feel that in my heart.
I called it off, and I am thankful that I never took things further with that girl.
Perhaps your concern about how often you will be able to provide a return trip for your lady is indicative of some deeper concerns that you have about the relationship. I have noticed that the tone of your posts has changed gradually since you came back from the first trip. This last post seems to me to express some real doubts about the relationship.
Heck, in the real world (i.e. not the world of international dating), we would never decide to marry a girl after spending nine days together. (Well, I almost did once, but that involved a stripper in Las Vegas--another story.) So maybe the best thing is to go back to Kherson, spend some time together, discuss the financial issues in person, and just see how things go. If you are still having doubts that your lady really loves you for you, then why take it further? I should think that turning your life upside down, and turning her and her son's lives upside down, requires more certainty than that.
Anyway, good luck. I hope we can still have that beer in Kherson in Nov.
I am not really sure if this is helpful but I keep getting credit card offers from a company that offers frequent flier miles. For every dollar you charge you get one free mile. It is a bit of a high rate of interest but if you pay the balance off every month it might not be a bad deal. Maybe some of you on here have such a card.
Money is a problem for me as well since my overtime has just been cut, however the girl that I am starting the paper work on only makes about 2 dollars an hour in her country. She should be able to tutor students here where I live since I am not far from one of the wealthiest area in the US. I will say this that she is it. If this doesn’t work out with her I am through with the overseas quest. It is just too much trouble and expense. I do think from her perspective that her situation would improve drastically from what she is used to and she will be able to help her parents by sending them money. Is it absolutely necessary that she see her parents that often? If she stays where she is she will continue to struggle and get older while at the same time her parents become more and more dependant on her. The question is what will she do when they are dead and gone? Who will take care of her?
Well take your time,As this can cost you a lot more then money.Once a year is fine as they must can use do the way things are here and I know what I'm talking about as I have done it in the past.The fist year is scary for she will have moments of homesickness she needs to tough it out so once a year is enough .
I agree with Philb,
Ladies I have dated in my past have indicated a return perhaps twice each year and I accept that I live in Europe whereas Ukraine is only a 3 hour flight, and USD350, away.
When I asked this question of my wife, a long time ago, she said once a year. This is perfect for me, we can have 2 holidays each year, a true holiday and a return to Ukraine.
I truly feel part of her family, and indeed her friends, and if she didn't want to return at least once a year then I would be disappointed, I would want to see her family and friends even if she didn't.
I think it is unreasonable, from the outset, to say that she cannot return for perhaps 3 years, as time goes on she should want to return less and less but 3 years from the outset sounds unreasonable and I feel will lead to dispute(s) and unhappiness.
She should, both of you should, look at this realistically. FSU ladies are not a 'bandwagon' and if you cannot afford the associated costs such as travel etc. then perhaps you should reconsider or perhaps come back at a time when you may be in a better financial situation to follow the process through and not perhaps fall at the first hurdle.
JMO
I agree with you completely.
VNV
You have hit the nail right on the head. Although due to circumstances I think this could well work. She has agreed to stay with me on my return so we will get a chance toplay ghouse and practise our language skills on each other and maybe some other skills also :))
I don't mind taking the risk on bringing her over. First of all I am going back in Nov for a couple of weeks. If all is well and we get along ok I am going to pull the trigger on this and we will be ring shopping. I shall start the paperwork and it will be a learning experience. I fully intend doing all of it myself. Then I am going back early in Feb for another 2 weeks. More building. Then of course when the K1 is approved she comes over here. I put it at 2 months before marrying. 2 months for more building and seeing which way is up.
If it doesn't work out (i.e. I don't see commitment etc) I will not return in February.
If it doesn't work out I won't file the K1.
If things aren't good in Feb then I won't buy a ticket for her.
If she comes over and it isn't going well we won't get married.
If we get married and I have indeed been sold a bill of goods then she will be on the receiving end of a divorce. I shall have a prenup in place believe me.
In other words there are safeguards.
This is a 2 way street not just me. That is to say as I write this it is 10pm in Kherson. I wonder what she is thinking about? I do not know how quickly the agency will interpret my emails of yesterday and get them to her. She has something to think about. Decisions to make.
I do think these things take time to grow so I kind of see where she is coming from. You make the commitment and move forward. Although it would be nice to see a little more enthusiasm I can deal with a slow build. That is ok if it is worth the end result. I will see in November. The jury is out.
Ice
I am flying this trip on American Airlines frequent flyer miles. This actual flight has cost me about $100. That is Miami to Kiev via London. Corse there are lots of other traveling expenses involved but it is still a deal.
I disagree ,
If it is only a 3 hour plane flight that is different. Almost all of the immigrants that left Europe and came to America never looked back . They came here to start a new life so what is the difference? These women put their profiles on the web to meet a man and start a new life and yes that means moving permenantly because they can`t find what they need at home. Most men here are displaying the same westernized wimpiness that got them nowhere with their westernized wives the first and second time around and they are at it again.Go ahead and keep on spoiling them. Bull shit , two and three trips a year to make her happy? Just go visit HER two or three times a year in the FSU and everyone and her family is happy minus the headaches .
Martin
In actuality I think I will be able to swing a trip every year and she will be able to go for a month. No guarantees but I think it will work out. I have no idea what you mean by using the word 'bandwagon'.
She will definitely not be returning other than for an emergency for about 18 months. Possibly 2 years have to play it by ear. It will depend on herself. I need to know what she is going to respond to me. I have done what I have done to test the waters. I want to find out where this band really stands.
Footnote.
I have a dead cert backup plan in Kharkov who is the same age, same little boy also same age, also very pretty, this one speaks / reads / writes English and has an occupation that would yield a decent living in America without qualification problems. We talk every day and I have known her longer than the one in Kherson. She also understands the situation I find myself in and would welcome me with open arms. She knows all about Marina and Elena and has her own opinions about things. Fate conspired to keep us apart and I find myself in this spot. She actually asked me to come to her from Kherson in September but then withdrew because she didn't want to interfere with my plans. She even has almost the same name as the one in Kherson but for one letter.
So you see al is not lost and many of these women are not so into foot shooting. :))
JMO
I am with you on almost every point. 2 or 3 visits a year is nuts. 1 time at most I think.
To answer someone in an earlier post, she will be working at Publix or WalMart almost certainly especially to begin with. That is $8 an hour. She will not be able to work a full week because of child care. So she will not be able to contribute too much. I am not worried about this though because of what I have set up this end. I have already thought of the possibilty of looking after 3 or 4 other kids every afternoon for about $10/day per kid. The whole thing could work out. The question here is she wiling to muck in? Does she want sidewalks paved with gold? I am trying to find this out.
I agree with ice.
If she comes over here she can help her parents and there will be so many other advantages especially for her little boy it isn't even funny. If she is short sighted and wants to go back every 5 minuts she is going to kill the goose that lays the golden egg. It isn't just more comfort and a subsidy for her parents. I hold both American AND British citizenship. Her little boy would have both citizenship of the USA and Europe. A hell of a starting gift in life. He would be able to have a real choice in life. I am syre my Kherson lady is trying to calculate all this out.
Or is she?
Izi,
By 'bandwagon', and I wasn't referring to you in particular, is similar to whereas a guy considers an FSU wife as a fashion accessory rather than as a more serious one on one relationship. I say again, this wasn't made in reference directly at you but at the more naive out there.
Without getting into a nationality dispute, the British have a reputation of being mean whereas the Americans have a reputation of being, and nothing personal, over sexed, over paid and over here.
I don't expect to hear from JMOLUV:
Most men here are displaying the same westernized wimpiness that got them nowhere with their westernized wives the first and second time around and they are at it again.Go ahead and keep on spoiling them. Bull shit , two and three trips a year to make her happy? Just go visit HER two or three times a year in the FSU and everyone and her family is happy minus the headaches .
I am not offended by such a statement but the Brits are not in the habit, indeed have a reputation totally opposite, of spoliing their lady or showering her with gifts and I am certainly not a wimp.
On the other hand, go to RWG, there, there are loud-mouthed Americans with a 'tablet of stone' to never send money to someone you have never met but, hey guys, we must pay for her correspondence, but to a lady they have never met. I'm still trying to work that one out!
Like I say, I do speak from a European, 3 hour, USD350 perspective. 3 times a year would be a litte too much, not monetary but missing her, but once or twice, wow a total of USD700 a year, well that really is being a wimp, well this really is spoiling her, particularly when I observe Americans spending that amount on a lady, who they have only recently met, in a day or a week.
And, at the end of the day, my wife will effectively be working here as soon as she arrived, she is an interpreter/translator for a UA agency, she can do it all by email so she'll be paying for her own ticket(s).
My wife is happy and without me spoiling her, I do take offence to being regarded as a wimp, anybody that knows me has never called me that thus anybody that calls me that via the internet might try loking in their mirror first.
And just for the record, I have not been married a first and second time around, I have never made the mistake(s) that JMOLUV obviously has, at my grand age this is my first time around and why? Because I take marriage so focking seriously!
Dear Marty,
As i wrote being 3 or less hours away puts you in a different class of travel so you weren`t being pointed at.. As far as my history which you are purely speculating and conjecturing i have never been married because mama didn`t raise no fool, but i have told plenty of women to leave. As far as being oversexed and overpaid , well, what can i say? I most surely am . After all ,i am an American. But i stand my ground on men picking up their ass kissing ways continuing from their western relationships straight into their FSU relationships. Not all ,but most.
Yes JMOLUV, perhaps most, shall we say the majority, do, that is the 'bandwagon' I previously referred to, Im not a fool, it seems that neither are you, so on that we may agree.
OS, OP & OH was from WW11, it does compare to this day however my unty married an American Naval Officer during that period so I do speak from personal experience ..... and a good guy he was!
That`s comical because they did a special show on the history channel of the Allies gathering in jolly old England for the D-Day invasion and the English soldiers were not happy with the Yanks "over there" boinking there women and being paid more than them.LOL
Yes, in one form or another, but to reitterate and expand upon from earlier, the British have a reputation for being mean, the Americans have a reputation for something else.
Comparing immigrants of 65 years a go with immigrants of today is a load of crap. 65 years a go the trip took up to several weeks each way. The world is a very different place. I mean 65 years no one could even do what we are attempting to do. Hell, it wouldn't even have been possible for most of us to do this 20 years ago.
I also find equating being a good provider with being a whimp a bit twisted. Now, being a good provider does not mean you are rich or make X amount of dollars a year. It simply means that you are able to meet the needs of your spouse. If it is important to your future spouse to maintain ties with her family you had better be prepared to do so. From the US I think once a year is completely fair. If this is not financially possible you had best have a plan and timetable to show her when this will be possible.
Put your foot down tell her no or give her some ambiguous time two or three years from now well.... This is being a man? I really wouldn't give that relationship much of a chance.
This is not directed at you Izi since I don't believe that is what you are advocating. I also think you are definitly doing the right think by discussing these things now. As far as giving up, don't be to quick. It has taken me five years and 12 trips to get where I am now (engaged getting married in February). Who ever said this was easy? ;-)
I agree with the ideas expressed by philb and would add a few comments.
There are a LOT of reasons many of us find ourselves here. Truthfully, ALL of us are victims of failed relationships, whether we actually married the woman (women) we were involved with or not. Unless of course we have a few 16 or 18 year olds (of the nontroll variety) who are truly just starting out. To my knowledge those people don't participate in this forum, nor do they have the resources or inclination to look overseas to the FSU.
We have failed in past relationships for MANY reasons. Some of us were whimps. Some of us were hard-asses. As in society in general, I am sure, some of us will always be push-overs and some of us will always be self-centered. We all carry our faults and secrets.
If we are fortuante enough to find our true match in the FSU, then we are fortunate indeed. There may be cultural differences, but the personality traits of our prospective matches will be as different as each of us are.
I also feel that izi is doing the right thing by discussing these very real aspects with his lady right up front. Most of us (including me) do not have unlimited resources. And if that is what your lady is looking for then she has the wrong idea, perhaps about you, and perhaps about westerners in general (a problem that my lady seems to have).
This search is NOT cheap - but it shouldn't be only for the wealthy either. And if your personal wealth is the first thing you tout about yourself, to us, or to your intended Russian lady, perhaps you have revealed one of your personal flaws right up front.
I find myself, again, much in agreement with Phil & Jet.
Phil talks of being a good provider, I would rather use the term 'adequate' provider, a relationship is not, and never should be, all about money, it is about two people being happy with each other and providing happiness and contentment for each other.
Are two people not to have an annual holiday together and for the first year or two would it not be perhaps practical to take that holiday in her homeland, sooner or later she may want to holiday elsewhere and then it would be her decision not to return to her homeland that year.
I've just done a price check and JFK/MOW return, next February, is a return fare of USD550. OK, it is accepted that not everydody lives in JFK or MOW but if there is not this kind of money in the family budget for just one trip a year then it would seem that a lady is to be subjected to a pretty ordinary lifestyle, probably a similar lifestyle to that she has at the moment so why should she relocate halfway around the world for a similar lifestyle, she's looking to improve her life as we all are.