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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > Gah... stupid $#@!%& Author Post AxisMundi Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/30/2003 4:36:42 PM   Grr... so I was very, very happy... I sent quite a few letters to Natasha Jukova (id: 14931). She then asks for my pic, and of course I willingly send it to her... today for no reason at all... instead of a very lengthy reply from her like normal I get "I end my correspondence, I wish you look with other women, Natasha" *shrugs* Oh well... I don't have luck with women here... and I'm not filthy rich... so why would I have any luck with this either... *shrugs* the world is cruel... alone is better I guess... *sighs* CodeRed Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/30/2003 6:56:40 PM   Finding the perfect partner Deep within us there seems an empty chasm that not even a hundred lovers could fill, yet still there is hope. Your dream can come true. Lasting love has eluded many of the most envied and lusted-after people in the world. Men and women often differ considerably in their knowledge and expectations. Women gain a lot of knowledge and expectations from their reading, watching romantic movies, and talking with each other. Many men could learn more about what women want simply by going to romantic movies, reading some romantic books, or just asking women what they think. Most men feel inadequate in the romance area, but won't admit it to anyone. Instead many just belittle romance as being unimportant or avoid dealing with it by saying, "I'm not that type." However, anyone can add romance to their relationships. Anyone can buy cards, flowers, give compliments, be affectionate, take someone to a romantic setting, enjoy a sunset together, learn to dance, or go to romantic movies. Above all, ask your partner what he/she wants and what he/she thinks is romantic, and then be open for developing a more "romantic" outlook and actions. It can add a lot of fun and intimacy to your relationship and make you more sexually desirable. The point im trying to make is not to give up. There is a whole world out there and key on her and the romance she needs. Dont zero in on one woman till you know her attitude. She should not have to ask for a pic. You should have sent that right away. Get some nice ones made of you for this. Some of you whild doing you favorite sport where she can see you happy. Go out find a femail friend and ask her to help you with your clothing and image. Have fun doing it. What ever you do dont give up.. You can find the answer. open your self up to the world see what out there. Well good luck.. and get that shot in the arm and get some advice from a frendly woman who you know. I assure you she will know if you need improvements. Its a shame in our world that image is a factor in relationships. However physical attractivness is human nature. Hang in there... wtrav02 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/30/2003 7:55:24 PM   What are you in second grade? why are you exposing this woman for? did she scam you? was she in a way unethical to you? Based on what you said, the answer is no. She rejected you on the basis of appearance. So what? it has happened to most people. Why this justifies a reference to her name and profile ID on a public web site? You are pissed off and you are trying to get back at her this way. Is this the type of reaction you would expect from a “gentleman”? It was entirely your fault that you didn't send her your pictures from the beginning. You had the opportunity to see her pictures in the gallery and choose her at least partially based on appearance, but you wouldn't send her your own pictures until she had to ask. My advice is do some thinking and maturing first and then get back to dating. CodeRed Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/30/2003 9:59:46 PM   I can agree it was not right to publish her name and profile ID on a public forum. And you really should have sent you photo first without having to be asked for it. Seems you may have known what her response would be so you held it back.. So I say again, Find some advice from another female on how to spruce yourself up. Lets not blame her because you held back a vital piece of information. So ya I blame you not her for holding back and for leading her on. So yes Ditto wtrav02.. AxisMundi Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/30/2003 10:03:08 PM   Yeah... for no reason at all, she just out of the blue tells me to go away... after having her service in uzebkistan contact me personally because she had a lot of interest in me... sounds like it was a scam about to happen... then after I said I was going to just continue through paying here on dating-ru instead of transferring money directly to her service she just doesn't want to have anything to do with me... so yeah... it was a scam in the process... but its just not here that this happens... I have this problem everywhere... And before you tell someone to mature... (this is for wtrav02...why don't YOU grow up and stop trying to psycho-analyze everyone...) And I didn't pick her on apperance, I picked her by her profile, and through the first letter from her which was like 3 pages long printed. wtrav02 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/31/2003 12:31:38 AM   If I read your second note correctly, now you're saying that her service asked you to transfer money to her account in order to continue correspondence. If this is the case and you have proof, this sounds like a typical scam. You should provide that last letter to Olga. If indeed you were asked for money outside the dating-ru service, then dating-ru has responsibility to check the validity of your accusations. If indeed the girl is a fraud, she should be removed from the database. There are also several anti-scam sites where you can post your case and expose scamming such as www.russian-scam.org and www.antiscam.org. You need to provide evidence that you were asked for money otherwise none would take you seriously (the email that you are saying the agency sent you should suffice). Your second note is contradicting the first one. In your first note you said the correspondence ended after you sent her your pictures. In your second note, you're saying that the correspondence ended after her agency asked for money and you refused. Olga Moderator send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/31/2003 3:55:34 AM   I dont think its a scam.( may be I'change my oppinion if you will show me the correspondence between you and the agency of this girl.) Lets see. In one of the e-mail to her sent via our site you gave her your e-mail address. Its quite natural that her agency contacted you directly and asked to pay for the services. They are a paid agency as well and I dont see anything wrong in it. If first you send her your photo, she said fine and continued correspondence, then the agency asked you for money, you said no and she quit-then it would look like a scam. But as far as i understand, she refused correspondence right after the photo. I know this agency and they didnt failed us so far. And if you refused to pay them directly it would not be a problem for them to continue the correspondence via our site( because it is not free for agencies. We pay agencies from the money you pay us).So I think that has nothing to do with a scam. The girl choosed not to continue correspondence after seeing your photo. And it was something like 3rd letter to her when you send your photo, am I right??? Men, send your photos with first messages.Let ladies see you first. So thats what I thik about it. May be I am wrong and I dont know the details...but right now thats my oppinion. CodeRed Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/31/2003 10:10:40 AM   Thank You Olga, I felt the same and I knew your answer. the problem of the issue was you waited so long to send your photo. That in itself is not fair and that she had to ask for it put worry in her mind. Then you do this runaround thing about not dealing with her agency. So yes If in her shoes and I wa getting into a situation where I would be depending on this guy for my future I would have responded the correctly. Lets face it, your not the only one that was responding to her so she most likly weeded you out with all your strikes. A 3 page correspondance is not an uncommon thing in the fist letters. She has allot to say to introduce herself and she is putting her best foot forward. You held you foot back. Im not cuttting you down. I just think you need to play the game right and you may need to work on your image. Plus I saw her profile. she is very pretty, hard to think you would be the only response to her and her profile is very new, so she is getting flooded. again I think you got weeded out. I think Olga is right its not a scam. Its the Long Distance Dating Game. Maybe you need to lower your standards and work on your image with some nice pics. wtrav02 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/1/2003 11:15:55 AM   Olga, you’re saying this isn’t a scam, but how you define scam? An agency monitors correspondence between girls and men. When a man asks for the girl’s email or phone number to establish direct communication, the agency intervenes and asks for money to allow the girl to continue correspondence. This sounds like a “pimp” kind of practice. I am sorry, but this is what I read in these notes. Why a man is not allowed after 3 letters to get the girl’s email and have direct correspondence with her? The agency is a paid agency. Is there a certain amount of money that has to be extracted from each man before that man is allowed direct contact? And, how can you even tell that it’s the girl who sends the letters and not someone from the agency? The whole thing stinks! I agree it is a must to send professionally quality pictures to a woman right from the first letter. However, can you tell with certainty in this particular occasion that it was his picture that led the girl shy away or it was his refusal to pay more money? I had correspondence with a woman (she was featured in Absolute Agency) back in the summer and suddenly received an email from her agency (based in Lugansk ….) asking for money to be deposited in the agency’s account (using direct deposit or credit card!) because the girl’s account was overdue and B/S like this. I exchanged a few emails with the agency and they even gave me their mail address, phone number and the girl’s full name, but refused to give me the girl’s mail address. I didn’t send any money and as a result the correspondence stopped. A few weeks later, I saw the girl’s picture in a list of confirmed scammers in Elena’s Models web site. A man who was scammed by this woman (or her agency) decided to post all the letters that were exchanged between them and you could see how they milked the guy. CodeRed Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/1/2003 11:59:55 AM   wtrav02, I myself dont feel the guy was milked. And I also dont think he was scammed in anyway, He simply got weeded out. Dating-ru is not the girls main dating site, they are contacted by the site that represents her, to post her, in order to obtain a maximum reach for their clients. Its not unusual for the girl to ask you to use her site after a few letters. I am more than sure he got weeded out. I have not seen a tell tail sign of a scam in this situation. Some of these sites make their money on holding back the girls email (if she has one) and phone number (if she has one). Its a bad way to do business but its not a scam. Up until about a year or so ago it was commong practice. The industry is changing slowly away from that practice and the ones that still do it are slowly dying out. But its not considered a scam. The key in this whole situation was he held back his pic. That would put suspicion in any womans mind. Her profile is a new one meaning she is getting many emails (she is relatively pretty)and in the process of weeding out undesireables. Also the girl may have asked for her agency to be used directly to speed the process. Eliminate a link in the chain sort of speek. However, Olga stated she knows the agency and the agency is up till now trustworthy. Olga is a trained professional along with may others at this site. They are trained to spot scams and protect you. I kinda trust her judgment. Well thats my thought... Good luck to all.. wtrav02 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/1/2003 12:46:46 PM   CodeRed, you seem to know the ins and outs of this business very well. I don't profess to be an expert and I take your word. Scamming can have different meanings for different people. Like you said, profiting by holding back the girls' contact data is bad business, but common practice up to this point. Thank you for clarifying this. gary496 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/1/2003 11:16:49 PM   wtrav02, Absolute Agency appears to be full of scammers. Maybe there are some honest girls there too, but this agency gets mentioned a lot on web sites dealing with scammers. A girl from there attempted to scam me too. Actually, I have reason to believe that the agency itself was in on the scam attempt. CodeRed Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/2/2003 12:31:13 AM   From what I can tell Absolute Agency Dating Service is actually a (Deutsch) German company. Its site never gives its regestration address. (Big Warning!) I have never been invloved with this company. However, they have a very, very long Members Terms and Conditions Agreement, Limitation of the liability, and Disclaimers. Hmmmmm well seems they have no responsability for anything..lol According to their fine print.. Olga Moderator send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/3/2003 8:39:32 AM   For wtrav02. Okey.Looks like we were talking about different things. <<<An agency monitors correspondence between girls and men.>>> the agency doesnt monitors the correspondence. The agency gets the messages and gibes those to a girl.They have no right to change something in messages , they print it out and give those to her. <<< When a man asks for the girl’s email or phone number to establish direct communication, the agency intervenes and asks for money to allow the girl to continue correspondence.>>> What do you mean by direct communication???If this girl is a member of the agency, 99% is that she diesnt has her own e-mail access. She doesnt has a computer thats why they all are here. If she doesnt have all this, how will he correspond with her directly???Where she is supposed to get her messages, who will translate all this and if something will, then why for free????? In this particular situation. It was a chain of two agencies and a girl. Man send us messages, we send them to girls agency, the girl got her messages. We charged the customer, paid girls agency and girl got her messages.Now he tried to avoid our messages and send messages to a girl. If she doesnt has her own pc.Her agency offers him the same process he used with us...I dont understand whats wrong here? beleive me. Girls who have their own e-mail are not interested in agencies. She would get his address in a message and send him messages directly. But she can do it via her agency. Whats wrong here? <<<This sounds like a “pimp” kind of practice. I am sorry, but this is what I read in these notes.>>> This is how it always works. Men start corresponding via one agency,then they give their adresses to the other agency and think that if they paid once it will be free... Why????!!!!After that they accuse the agency in dishonesty. <<<Why a man is not allowed after 3 letters to get the girl’s email and have direct correspondence with her? >>> who told you that she has her own e-mail???her e-mail-is the e-mail of her agency.If she had it she would not use this agency. <<<The agency is a paid agency. Is there a certain amount of money that has to be extracted from each man before that man is allowed direct contact? >>> What do you mean by direct contact???Get her snail mail address and contact this girl. Girls that are registered in database by the agencies dont have private e-mails. Sometimes they have it, but in this case her e-mail is provided with her snail mail address. <<<And, how can you even tell that it’s the girl who sends the letters and not someone from the agency? >>>> Please dont make statements like that.You can ask about the each girl in a photo gallery-how can you even tell that this is she responding the messages, not her brother, uncle Boris or her agency. And you never know this for sure untill you meet her. But we work with our partner agency on the base of a contract. This is a real girl and they are supposed to send her real messages. <<<<The whole thing stinks! I agree it is a must to send professionally quality pictures to a woman right from the first letter. However, can you tell with certainty in this particular occasion that it was his picture that led the girl shy away or it was his refusal to pay more money?>>>> What I told about it was just my personal oppinion. And this is not the first time it happens.Girls stop correspondence because of man's appearance and men tells the agency that he was scammed. It happens a lot here and I am nor surpriesed.I can tell again. The agency of a girl is paid for each message she receives from us. If the agency would be interested in getting money, they would continue correspondence via our site even if he refused to pay directly. This happens a lot too.Agencies often try to get the customers pay them directly.In case the customer says no they continue correspondence via our site. And when you ask"can you tell with certainty in this particular occasion " I wonder, do you really think there is a way to tell with certanity? It is a long distance relationship...Customers trust us with their credit cards, we have to trust agencies that work with us. Lets put it in the other way. What if the girl was really interested in this man. If she was, whats the guarantees that she was not interested in his money as well? There can be thousands of things we can think of( even like this:can you tell with certainty in this particular occasion that all men who are writing to girls on this site are REALLY looking for marriage, they they are not just entertaining, that they are sending real photos of then and not made 10 years ago...and things like that.)But there are things I know for sure from my experience in this agency. And when I say something on this forum, this is what I know. Not that it is 100% for sure. wtrav02 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/3/2003 8:41:37 PM   lga, 1. Are you defending the whole industry now? Are you positive there are no agencies out there monitoring girls’ emails? Like I said in my paragraph, I had one experience (in fact more than one) of this sort. Furthermore, there are agencies like Anastasia Web that monitor all customers’ letters (manually and through software) to make sure that no direct email addresses are exchanged between men and the ladies (so that milking the customer can go a long way since they debit customers' accounts per click). There is a statement in their policy that warns people ... 2. You’ re very definitive in your statements: “ Girls are 99% on dating sites because they lack online account and computer”. No, this is not always true! My fiancée has her own email address and is perfectly computer literate, but she was still using an agency and her information came to me through your site. All of her friends also have email. I was in Ukraine twice and was surprised by the enormous number of Internet Cafes and how many people were online. Half hour online doesn’t cost more than 50 cents (to make a local call using phone card costs more). I don’t believe that the reason these girls are on your site is lack of computer connection or computer skills. Letter forwarding for the first couple of letters adds value. After the first couple of letters, it is redundant. Based on personal experience, I say this: “after 2-3 letters, you absolutely need to request tactfully the girl’s email, phone number, and mail address”. If she refuses this information, chances are there is something fishy or she is not seriously interested and you better get out of the loop before you end up spending a lot of money sending and translating too many letters. If the girl likes you and she is real, she should have no problem giving this information. When you are talking about translation, this is where I think the service starts adding value. Services like translation and personal advice/consultation are indeed useful and make the customer gladly spend the money. Holding back girls’ contact data and playing games: “not a good business, drives people who have brain in their head mad”. 3. In the notes that preceded your last note, it does not appear that the girl had a preference to continue the correspondence through her agency. When I send a letter to a girl and ask for her address and then a note from the agency comes back asking for money, this is unacceptable. I think Code Red got it and his comments were right to the point I’m trying to make. I am not saying you shouldn’t charge people money for your services. You are running a business and you are entitled to making a profit to the extent that you deliver value to you customers. I’m just saying there has to be a different way to profit. 4. I keep reading you comments and only have one thing to say: YOU DIDN’T GET IT. The point I was trying to make was that when the other agency popped up and asked for the guy’s money directly rather than through your site, that was “bad business practice”. This is not how agencies are supposed to do business. Consider an example: I am a small manufacturer of product A and market this product under my own brand. You are a large manufacturer or distributor of a large product portfolio with a well-recognized name and wide geographic coverage. We have a deal that I will supply you product A and you will market product A to your customers with you brand name. I will supply you product A on a non-exclusive agreement. I will continue to market the product with my name and also sell it to other manufacturers like you for resale under their brand names. You start selling product A to your customers and take responsibility for this product because now it has your name. Your customers don’t know my involvement in this process as the original manufacturer of product A and perceive you as the producer. After the product has been in the market for a while under your name and your customers have been acquainted with the product and they like it, I pick up the phone and start calling directly on your customers. I introduce myself to your customers as the original manufacturer of product A and propose that they buy the product directly from me. Put yourself in the customer’s shoes. What do you think their reaction would be? The customer would be confused and would wonder: Who is the entity calling me out of the blue? Is this entity for real? Why are they asking me to go direct? Then the customer would normally pick up the phone and call you, the entity he/she knows, trusts and is familiar with. The customer would ask you to make your position clear. And, you would respond to him/her, like you did in this string of emails: “don’t worry! this is normal way of doing business!”. 5. You’re right there is no certainty about people’s true feelings. This is not under dating-ru's control. What is under dating-ru's control is having appropriate business policy and follow this policy with its suppliers (of women’s profiles) and customers. Olga, when an agency goes directly to one of your customers and says: “give me your money directly if you want to continue correspondence with this girl whom you met online through dating-ru”, this doesn’t look good on dating-ru. This is not how you are supposed to do business. 6. As a last statement, I don’t think that you understood my point, but that’s Ok. I hope there is enough space on the server for these long follow up emails. I don’t know if the girl stopped the correspondence because of the photos or another reason. My whole point was centered on the issue of business practice. I think that the agency showing up out of the blue and asking for money right after the guy asked for the girl’s email address, the guy refuses to give money directly, the correspondence stops and then you, Olga, co wtrav02 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/3/2003 8:50:03 PM   CONTINUED PREVIOUS EMAIL THAT WAS CUT: 6. As a last statement, I don’t think that you understood my point, but that’s Ok. I hope there is enough space on the server for these long follow up emails. I don’t know if the girl stopped the correspondence because of the photos or another reason. My whole point was centered on the issue of business practice. I think that the agency showing up out of the blue and asking for money right after the guy asked for the girl’s email address, the guy refuses to give money directly, the correspondence stops and then you, Olga, coming out saying that this is supposed to happen all but rarely, this is really surprising to me given my past experience with your site. CodeRed Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/3/2003 9:30:18 PM   wtrav02 ??????????? Lighten up... Ya I get it and the Russian way of business is far different than ours. We are use to a different set of rules governing business practices. Olga is right.. She is dead on right for the way business is done in her country. There is nothing wrong in it and it works for them. We do it different here and we expect more here. However, they try to bend and adjust to the way we do things and we need to bend and understand that we are doing business on a foreign website. Dating-ru is more understanding to this than any other sites I have seen. So who is wrong here? NOBODY!! Who is right here? Both are.. This is like foreign trade. Just as they try to understand our needs and the way we do business, we need to understand their needs and the way they do businees and find common ground. This is good practice for understanding that when you do find and marry your future wife she will think differently than you and you will think differently than her in some instances. It will take adjustment on both your part. Who will be wrong and who will be right then.. lol Neather... Because in her mind and in her way of thinking she will be right and in yours you will be. So whats the cure here? Hmmmmmm Some understanding, Some compassion, and an understanding that it will take adjustment on both parts. Olga is right!!! You are right!!! So lighten up ... Nobody is wrong here and this can turn ugly fast. I might get blasted here for saying all this. But I will live. wtrav02 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/3/2003 10:45:06 PM   Code Red, I have been doing business overseas for years and have lived overseas on various business assignments. I understand cultural differences and how they affect business. Corruption and ill-conceived practices were never part of my agenda. Thanks much for you comments, good luck to you and everyone else on this site. Olga, thanks for everything, no bad feelings, but I mean every word that I said. I am out. Olga Moderator send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/4/2003 6:31:24 AM   wtrav02 I am out too ;-)Thanks a lot for your comments, we both said what we think and we both mean every word we say.I am not trying to leave the last word for myself in this discussion by this response. I just wanted to say that if some of our customers suspect scam, lets investigate it.Lets look into particular case, study the messages that were send back and forth. And if was not right I will admit it.We do those checks a lot upon the request of a customer.Thats what for our customer service exists. Your Reply: Your name:   New Registration Password:   Forgot password?   refresh Code:   Russian brides > Main Forum > Gah... stupid $#@!%&
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