I ordered a copy of an Anti-Scam Guide written by a Russian woman who is now happily married and living in N Africa. (I should add that she now runs an agency for RW). It's a cyber book and is very interesting reading, especially for the paranoid. She explains how to protect yourself from many different types of scams that are out there, and I believe she said the scammers account for about.... it was either 5 or 15 percent of the girls. The book is fairly long and I read the entire thing wanting to know how to spot the one scam that I keep getting asked about the most. (The visa scam). She NEVER mentioned it!!! I couldn't believe it!! I even wrote a letter to her asking why she didn't discuss it, and she wrote back to say that that type of scam was too rare to worry about! Hmmmm.
I have seen instances where once the woman arrives in the US and obtains her registration card (green card) She Hits the Internet looking for a mate more to her liking. She divorces her new husband keeps her immigration status. It's too bad the INS doesn't keep records of this sort of thing... You would think they would track the results of their efforts?
I’m not trying to scare anyone here. I just want to bring to light that this type of scam does take place. I have seen it more that once. There are no safeguards in place for it and no statistics I can find on it. I would say it has happen in about 10 percent of the clients I have handled. These are cases in which the woman came right out and said, “ I just wanted the visa and alien status”. Just thought it’s a good thing to keep in the back of your mind guys. I just ran into a case the other day. That’s what made me think to mention it. Need less to say the guy was devastated. He asked what he could have do to protect himself. I had no real sound answers or advice for him. Good luck to all.
Codered, yes its interesting because there are some dedicated anti scam sites on the net and its scary....but one of the most common scams listed is the visa scam. In Austrlia the Department of Immigration has battled it by only giving provisional visas to new wives...that is they do not get permanent residency (Greencard in American terms) for 2 years after their arrival and of course they must still be with the husband.....a so-called genuine marriage. But the system still has drawbacks.....the only way a woman can leave the husband before 2 years and maintain residency is to plead that there was domestic violence.....this has led to some dubious domestic violence claims mixed in with the real ones. Not easy to sort out!! Still, the scammers may think twice if they know they have to be with the new husnband after 2 years!!
Stephen, I think the system here in Sweden works much the same way as in Australia.
Here, the minimum requirement is that if someone applies for citizenship because of marriage,she must have lived here for 3 years, and been married to a Swedish citizen for 2 of those years.
So, you must spend at least 3 years here, even if she finds someone willing to marry "at once", which men here seldom do.
In the states once she gets her green card the only requirement is that she maintains 6 months out of the year in the US. Her Marriage to be maintained is not a requirement. In fact on the fiancee visa she is required to be married within 90 days. does not have to be with the guy who brought her over. Just as long as she has married. This alone makes you wounder why you go throught all the trouble of proving your relationship then to allow her to marry whom ever once she touches American soil. I guess thats the key factor. Once she touches American soil, The laws of Freedom set in. So the Visa Scam is a big deal here. Domestic violance is a reasion used for divorce. On a Divorce she may stay in her Green Card status as long as she maintains 6 months out of the year in the states and commits no crimes. There are no statistics here on the issue because the issue is not tracked. Good luck to all
Still you have to feel sorry for the poor guys that get scammed...after all they are citizens and the scammers are citizens of another country who have shown a level of dishonesty and potentially fraud. Codered, are you saying that the laws of freedom affect non citizens of the US like this and allow citizens to get ripped off? Surely if the visa rules required a genuine marriage to be demonstrated over a period of time, nobody's freedom is affected. As a matter of fact, in Australia she needs no reason to divorce as it as a fault free divorce system here.....no allegations of violence or adultery needed. All that is required is 12 months separation...thats it...the reason is irrelevant. As Janwas points out the system is similar in Sweden. Don't get me wrong, because I don't think that this is the ultimate answer, but surely some legal reform is necessary because the scammers must be having a party and I feel really sorry for the guys who are fleeced!
Yes, The system needs allot of reform. The whole process needs fixing. I don't know what the best system is, However the one in place now is bogged down and slow. Plus Abused. Its is also very unfair to the couple. Its an old system that needs reform. Its so hard to get in the country but once your in, your in!
Its an Unfair system I think. There are not statistics available on the fleecing :-)
CodeRed, I don't think you're right about girl coming here as fiancee and then getting married to someone else and still getting by with the visa. The law specifically states fiancee has to get married within the 90 day period to the same person who sponsored her to come here or she is booted. The 90 day visa is temporary, no extensions are allowed and girl can only marry the guy who brought her to U.S.A. In addition, if girl asks for divorce after she gets green card, citizen can always appeal to INS to have her green card revoked on basis of immigration fraud. In other words, it's not that simple and she can get in some deep shit very easily with immigration fraud.
Also, out of curiosity since you have experience with visa scams. What is your view on prenap? How would Russian girl take it and how should be approached? What happened to the people who were scammed? were they also ripped off? In my mind, that's even more important since if the girl is a scam, then she is not worth the bother anyway, and quite frankly if after 2-3 years you haven't still figured her, then you are asking for it, but if you end up losing half your personal wealth, then you're a sucker ...
I have seen it happen. I dont represent woman like that. The law states, However They rearley enforce it. I know of a case where after protesting to the INS for 3 months that INS told the client that the green card was hers. They would not revoke the card. They stated that based on a divorce did not constitute fraud unless it can be proved to be premeditated. (That is nearly impossible to prove) the her new fiancee could and did take over the sponsorship.
(Prenup) prenuptial agreement is a legal contract signed by a couple before marriage. The agreement is designed to identify, anticipate and resolve issues that could potentially become problems between the couple at a later time and usually in the case of divorce.Prenuptial agreements are generally used to protect financial assets that were accumulated by the couple prior to the marriage. Prenups may also cover future inheritances. Sometimes, prenuptial agreements are used to provide for the division of property or the custody of children in the case of a divorce.
Young couples who do not have a lot of assets and do not expect to receive any great inheritances really do not need to bother with a prenuptial agreement. State laws and/or courts will dictate property division and custody battles in the case of divorce.
However, any individual who is coming into a marriage with considerable assets should seriously consider a prenuptial agreement. Although this practice may seem unromantic to some, I think that someone who is really in love should not hesitate to sign one of these contracts. If you think you need a prenuptial agreement, discuss the items that you want included in the agreement with your fiance. Then, consult an attorney and have your agreements written in a legal contract. Your attorney should include a specific date in the future on which the agreement will be reviewed and revised or expired.
If you discuss it with her first and explain you have allot to loose if the marriage does not work. You provide a safety net for her in the agreement. And not just drop it on her. Then I see noe problem. However you will want a Russian Translation of it done and signed by both parties to ensure her understanding of it.
There are no statistics on the visa scams. They may be very small and not worth the worry. However, I just wanted to let people know it does happen.
The greater the risk, the greater the reward. It seems odd that women of this calibur, if American, would not give an average guy the time of day. I think, by chance, finding the woman of your dreams is worth the risk. It just makes sense to hedge with a prenup to protect yourself. I've played this scenario in my head several times. Would your prospective fiance be offended by a requirement of a prenup, or be understanding and not care? I think if she truley loves you, it would be inconsequential if there was a prenup or not. My out is that my family would require a prenup before granting a blessing on the marriage. Does the RU culture accept prenups as normal? Would a woman of traditional RU values respect a family's requirement for a prenup?
Prenups are not common for Russia, and I dont think that it will be accepted as a norm. I also think that its a personal question. Some women will not mind doing that for sure, the other would, depends on your relationships, how much you trust each othwer and how well you can explain her the importance of this step.
Frank – I have discussed the prenup thing with my fiancé the same way you mention…my family requested it because I share some land with my sisters…also my business partner does not want to go into business with Russian women…She has no problem with it. I do not have a lot of exp. with RW, and Russian culture, and laws, but two divorced Russian women that I corresponded with made these comments. One said if I receive any support for our child it is usually 5 dollars a month. Another complained that the apartment that her and her x-husband bought, which she mainly paid for, was not divided up after the divorce. He got it. There was a website I found several months ago…I can’t remember it now…CodeRed probably does…it is Russian Women forum who live abroad and have married foreigners and they discuss problems, etc. A remember a topic about a couple of women who were going through divorces…and one was discussing in-laws, and how bad she was being treated…and they were discussing how the men were worried about divorce settlement. I remember a couple of women saying, I just want to go back home…they commented more on how greedy the men were, and how they just wanted out of the relationship… You cannot generalize all women, but the above along with my other personal exp. led me to believe that if you marry the right woman…these women have already been fairly independent and will not be necessarily motivated to screw you unfairly in a divorce… anyway anything could happen but I get the felling that they would be fair, and only want to divide what you built up while married, and not necessarily be looking to take you to cleaners
It would be fair as codered mentioned to have it translated, and meet with her own lawyer…maybe
There is another website…I have not visited in a long time, but it is the one by the Russian woman from South Africa – I seem to recall her addressing this and saying that a RW met with an independent lawyer to understand prenup…and she told her fiancé latter that he wanted to screw him…I guess because the lawyer was advising her of her rights, and best interests…etc…
It seems we're creating a bit of a subculture with it's own issues regarding international relationships. With these kinds of considerations, it seems that the prospective bride should be understanding that there are a lot of scammers. One may explicitly trust their fiance, but they must understand that it is only prudent considering the risks to be taken by both parties. In order to make international marriages more pallitable, I think that an effort should be made by the agencies, etc., to persuade people that a prenup is an acceptable and prudent formality. If two people love each other, it would be inconsequential that there is a prenup, unless one has alterior motives toward material assetts.
But Europeans don't like that sort of thing. Don't like lawyers and psychologists getting too much influence in every day life. It's as much a cultural feeling as a question of prudent thinking. It feels wrong, and it's a bit controlling and paranoid.
Personally I feel that the majority of people here could benifit more from prenup councilling than prenup agreements. I see the benifits and reasoning in such things, but am happy to concentrate on practicing balancing the high-wire than building safety nets under.
Norway, I agree that one should focus on balancing on the high wire regardless. If one is truly in a loving relationship, you'd both invest the effort to nuture it. This is of course under the assumption that you have not married a gold digger. The prenup would be the net against a gold digger that never got detected. It may even deter a gold digger from her course of action if she understands that she cannot screw the guy.
On the opposite side of things. Aside from sincere couples pursuing true vows of devotion, having the added knowledge of a predetermined consequence may be added incentive to stay the course. Ideally, if the love is true and mutual and the character of devotion between the two simply make the prenup just a piece of paper.
Just because one buys car insurance does not mean that one is paranoid to drive. We must realize that people are people. If she comes state side and dumps me for a richer, younger and better looking man, so be it. My broken heart will heal, but I'll still have all my assetts to give it another go with who may be more worthy of my love and devotion.
The reality of scammers and gold diggers pretty much necessitates the need for prenups. I think a loving woman would be understanding of that and not be offended. If the love is true, then the prenup is simply a piece of paper.
But you would drive more carefully if you didn't have car insurance. I'm only insured for responsibility (damage to others) and I drive better for that.
In WW1 they didn't give the fighter pilots parachutes, even though they had them. They thought that if you had a parachute you wouldn't fight to the death.
There is no right or wrong answer here. It's personal/cultural. Just how foolhardy and naive is your romanse, and just how much can you tolerate to loose a couple of grand. Unless you are so rich you can anyway afford to loose big sums, existing state laws will protect you from loosing those big sums.It really isn't such a big deal.
I do accept that since your more or less forced by IMS laws to get married before you normally would, there is reason to be more careful. But then your prenup should also consider reimbursing the RW for quiting her job and appartment and leaving friends and family.
Norway – the top site is the one that has forum “between us Russian girls”…the rest have different info. and forums I found interesting. I have not looked at any of these sites in many months, so I am not sure what value you might find in them, but I found them interesting when I began this process. These are all business similar to fiancé.com. The information is not necessarily unbiased. Since some offer similar services, or links to dating agencies I want to say that in my opinion fiancé.com offers the best service, for the price on the internet. Finace.com is the dating agency that led me to the woman of my dreams so I highly endorse fiancé.com