Crisk, Orthodox, which is Russian Orthodox, is very similar in many ways to our Catholicism.
Due to the distance to travel, my wife attends Our local Catholic church with me, and about every month we go to Indianapolis for a Russian Orthodox mass. Ingnacius is good how About this one St. Hedwig.
Jesus wanted his wife to continue his Church after him, but this wasn't something men, including his disciples, could bear to see. All religions gave women a higher place, but within a century or two after the death of their founders, religions got hijacked by men, who replaced women near to their original status. Islam, for example, gave women right to divorce and inheritance, something not known to them in the west until the 18th century, but I wonder how many women were actually given these privliges, and not due to religion, but due to men.
I know you don't believe in Jesus' divinity, or God, that is quite clear. I was trying to make a point about how easy it is to lift a comment out of context and misrepresent someone.
Also, just for the record, I am not a christian either. I am fairly firmly atheist, but I HAVE read the New Testament (or most of it) and it is constantly misrepresented by Christian and non-Christian alike. I think you'll find that most christians, certainly catholic and protestant do believe that Jesus is the one true son of God. I merely point out that Jesus himself made no such claim. To be fair, I do not know what orthodox christians believe in this respect. As far as I know, the only christians who did not believe in his divinity were the gnostics, who Rome effectively wiped out.
LadyJane
Evidence is easy to document, that the bible we have is 99.5% accurate. The existance of 25000 ancient manuscripts, being consistant, proves this.
The period of 500-1500AD has done nothing to change the bible. The ancient manusrcipts go way back before then and are entirely consistant with the bible we use today.
There is no other books or wrtings of any other work,that has so many ancient copies and none other has been copied so accurately.
So you can read your bible with confidence, that it is exactly what was written nearly 2000 years ago.
Can you tell us where these ancient manuscripts are, that tell us that Jesus was married?
The Da Vinci Code does not count as evidence:))
"circumcission and prohibition of eating of pig meat" was never part of Jesus's teachings.
I understand now. Sorry I missed your point. And I honestly did not know that Jesus himself made no claim to be the one true son of God. Sorry for the flames and all. I guess I'm as passionate about my atheism as others can be about their own beliefs.
Da Vinchi Code is well researched and convincing, but I'll convince you in my way:
I - CIRCUMCISSION
Genesis 17:13 - Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant.
Genesis 17:14 - Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant."
Luke 1:59 - On the eighth day they came to circumcise the child, and they were going to name him after his father Zechariah.
Now, the Paul's version of Christianity:
Romans 2:26 - If those who are not circumcised keep the law's requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised?
Romans 3:1 - What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision?
Corinthians 7:18-19 - Was a man already circumcised when he was called? He should not become uncircumcised. Was a man uncircumcised when he was called? He should not be circumcised. 19Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts.
Galatians 5:2 - Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.
Galatians 5:6 - For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
Galatians 6:15 - Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation.
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II. PORK
Deuteronomy 14:8 - The pig is also unclean; although it has a split hoof, it does not chew the cud. You are not to eat their meat or touch their carcasses.
Leviticus 11:7 - And the pig, though it has a split hoof completely divided, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you.
Matthew 8:28-34 - When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes, two demonpossessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way. Some distance from them a large herd of pigs was feeding. The demons begged Jesus, “If you drive us out, send us into the herd of pigs.” He said to them, “Go!” So they came out and went into the pigs, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and died in the water.
Those tending the pigs ran off, went into the town and reported all this, including what had happened to the demonpossessed men. Then the whole town went out to meet Jesus. And when they saw him, they pleaded with him to leave their region.
Mark 5:11-17 - A large herd of pigs was feeding on the nearby hillside. The demons begged Jesus, “Send us among the pigs; allow us to go into them.” He gave them permission, and the evil spirits came out and went into the pigs. The herd, about two thousand in number, rushed down the steep bank into the lake and were drowned. Those tending the pigs ran off and reported this in the town and countryside, and the people went out to see what had happened. When they came to Jesus, they saw the man who had been possessed by the legion of demons, sitting there, dressed and in his right mind; and they were afraid. Those who had seen it told the people what had happened to the demonpossessed man–and told about the pigs as well. Then the people began to plead with Jesus to leave their region.
Luke 8:32-37 - A large herd of pigs was feeding there on the hillside. The demons begged Jesus to let them go into them, and he gave them permission. When the demons came out of the man, they went into the pigs, and the herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and was drowned. When those tending the pigs saw what had happened, they ran off and reported this in the town and countryside, and the people went out to see what had happened. When they came to Jesus, they found the man from whom the demons had gone out, sitting at Jesus' feet, dressed and in his right mind; and they were afraid. Those who had seen it told the people how the demonpossessed man had been cured. Then all the people of the region of the Gerasenes asked Jesus to leave them, because they were overcome with fear. So he got into the boat and left.
Now, the Paul's version of Christianity:
Romans 14:14 - As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean.
Romans 14:20 - Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble.
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Sorry, I meant woman's right to inheritance and remarrige (not divorce).
Da Vinchi Code is well researched and convincing, but I'll convince you in my way:
I - CIRCUMCISSION
Genesis 17:13 - Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant.
Genesis 17:14 - Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant."
Luke 1:59 - On the eighth day they came to circumcise the child, and they were going to name him after his father Zechariah.
Now, the Paul's version of Christianity:
Romans 2:26 - If those who are not circumcised keep the law's requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised?
Romans 3:1 - What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision?
Corinthians 7:18-19 - Was a man already circumcised when he was called? He should not become uncircumcised. Was a man uncircumcised when he was called? He should not be circumcised. 19Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts.
Galatians 5:2 - Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.
Galatians 5:6 - For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
Galatians 6:15 - Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation.
------------------------------------------------------------------ ----
II. PORK
Deuteronomy 14:8 - The pig is also unclean; although it has a split hoof, it does not chew the cud. You are not to eat their meat or touch their carcasses.
Leviticus 11:7 - And the pig, though it has a split hoof completely divided, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you.
Matthew 8:28-34 - When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes, two demonpossessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way. Some distance from them a large herd of pigs was feeding. The demons begged Jesus, “If you drive us out, send us into the herd of pigs.” He said to them, “Go!” So they came out and went into the pigs, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and died in the water.
Those tending the pigs ran off, went into the town and reported all this, including what had happened to the demonpossessed men. Then the whole town went out to meet Jesus. And when they saw him, they pleaded with him to leave their region.
Mark 5:11-17 - A large herd of pigs was feeding on the nearby hillside. The demons begged Jesus, “Send us among the pigs; allow us to go into them.” He gave them permission, and the evil spirits came out and went into the pigs. The herd, about two thousand in number, rushed down the steep bank into the lake and were drowned. Those tending the pigs ran off and reported this in the town and countryside, and the people went out to see what had happened. When they came to Jesus, they saw the man who had been possessed by the legion of demons, sitting there, dressed and in his right mind; and they were afraid. Those who had seen it told the people what had happened to the demonpossessed man–and told about the pigs as well. Then the people began to plead with Jesus to leave their region.
Luke 8:32-37 - A large herd of pigs was feeding there on the hillside. The demons begged Jesus to let them go into them, and he gave them permission. When the demons came out of the man, they went into the pigs, and the herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and was drowned. When those tending the pigs saw what had happened, they ran off and reported this in the town and countryside, and the people went out to see what had happened. When they came to Jesus, they found the man from whom the demons had gone out, sitting at Jesus' feet, dressed and in his right mind; and they were afraid. Those who had seen it told the people how the demonpossessed man had been cured. Then all the people of the region of the Gerasenes asked Jesus to leave them, because they were overcome with fear. So he got into the boat and left.
Now, the Paul's version of Christianity:
Romans 14:14 - As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean.
Romans 14:20 - Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble.
------------------------------------------------------------------- ---
Sorry, I meant woman's right to inheritance and remarrige (not divorce).
Way before Da Vinchi Code, came William Phipps' "Was Jesus Married?" In this book Phipps argued that the silence of the New Testament about the marital status of Jesus indicates that Jesus was in fact married, because virtually every Jewish man in Jesus' day did marry, especially those who were considered to be Rabbis.
Before Vatican gained absolute power and "silenced the heretics", many Christian sects believed that Jesus was married. The fact that today's New Testament doesn't mention it, means nothing. If Vatican was against such a notion, Vatican had an entire millenium to alter Bible as it sought fit.
LadyJane
None of the above scriptures refer to Jesus, preaching cicumcision or not eating pork.
Jesus was not around during Genisis or Deuteronomy, or Leviticus.
There are no scriptures in the bilble that refer to him teaching these things.
Rather than rely on the Da Vinhci Code, historical proof would be better to substaniate Jesus was married.
eg.
The Gospel of John, held in the John Rylands Library of Manchester, Dated 130AD.
But unfortunately it doesnt say anything about Jesus being married.
LadyJane
I am sure it amused Phipps to argued that the silence of the New Testament about the marital status of Jesus indicates that Jesus was in fact married.
In the same way it could be argued that the silence of the New Testament about Jesus being a martian with bug eyes and antennae pocking out of his head, indicates that this was in fact the case.
And also, "because virtually every Jewish man in Jesus' day did marry, especially those who were considered to be Rabbis."
Does Paul count, he wrote half the New Testament, was he married?
"Before Vatican gained absolute power and "silenced the heretics", many Christian sects believed that Jesus was married. The fact that today's New Testament doesn't mention it, means nothing. If Vatican was against such a notion, Vatican had an entire millenium to alter Bible as it sought fit."
Can you give us even the smallest evidence that this is not just your imagination?
I served as a doctor at an American hospital in Persian Gulf, so may be I could be of help. While women freely talk of their men with other women, it is taboo for men to speak of their wives with other men. If you're not family, age often is the only indicator that a man is married. They don't display rings or photos of their families at work.
Muslim believe Jesus to be a prophet, no more, but also no less than their own, but with the twist that in Roman custody or on cross, he was replaced by an identical. While in the west we are quite comfortable with the notion that Jesus could be arrested, beaten and crucified, it is hard for them to swallow it, simply beacuse no prophet had ever met such an ending.
This twist leads to another rather logical twist. Since Jesus didn't get to die, he must return and live out the rest of his days, a belief similar to ours.
"And the companion of the Savior is Mary Magdalene (from the village of Magdala). But Christ loved her more than all the disciples and used to kiss her often on her mouth. The rest of the disciples were offended by it and expressed disapproval. They said to him: "Why do you love her more than all of us?" The Gospel of Philip, 63-63.
In New Testament, Mary Magdalene is first mentioned as one of the women who accompanied Jesus on his preaching mission (Luke 8:1-3). The next time she is mentioned when she observes the crucifixion of Jesus (Mark 15:40). Several centuries after these texts were written, Mary became the prostitute. There's nothing in Scripture that makes this connection. There is no reason to believe she had ever been a prostitute.
Sorry, I can't write more. It's time to run to the university.