"What sushi_boy is probably true for Odessa but odessa is definitely the worst place in FSU to meet girls"
What??? Worst place? Girl I'm seeing is from there and I have met many girls there. It just seems like there are a lot of girls there(based on sites).
I still think the problem is not the girls....not the agencies.....but it the the MEN and their improbable thinking they will land some young hottie by throwing some $$$ around. I don't know the particulars for each guy and girl but I bet the word scammer comes up whenever the guy thinks he didn't get what he paid for. Just because you paid for letters( whose fault is it you don't speak girls language) doesn't mean anything. If one chooses to attempt to find a girl from a foreign land
it is entirely possible you will fall on your face, one of the pitfalls among many. How many times do you hear a middle aged man writing a 20 something and he screams scammer because she was not real or just used him for some money....sorry, had to get it out.
In 3 years I can say I know of 2 scammers...both I never met and asked for money to get to USA to visit me.......how smart do you have to be????
Beemer it was inevitable that out of the dozens of girls you met there that you would find a genuine one :-). Seriously though by your own admission you met a lot of non-serious girls there, and you understand the FSU dating scene and culture. For a "newb" odessa is a minefield.
Devil....I never said the ones I met were not serious, most were, only we didn't click, you can tell in first or second meeting. I guess I have been lucky, most girls I met are genuine, maybe it is through letters I weed out the ones that don't seem genuine.......but I have met my share of girls that don't show, have an excuse or want to be lavished.
The process of finding a girl in FSU is like going through a minefield, only some guys prefer going through the area that is more filled with them or just circling around inside!!! :-))
"I don't know the particulars for each guy and girl but I bet the word scammer comes up whenever the guy thinks he didn't get what he paid for."
Or is not aware of what he is paying for or not paying for. Many tend to believe what they are being told. If they are lied to, then it is a scam. In FSU, one should look at money as once you decide to give or pay, you might not get it back or will not get what you think you will get.
We all know that life is hard in the FSU. If a western guy comes and has money, why not get all you can? Sometimes, surviving is at stake, so some do, some don't. But, you cannot put a money value in relationships. Give the woman room to decide her future, no matter what you spent on her.
"Or is not aware of what he is paying for or not paying for. Many tend to believe what they are being told. If they are lied to, then it is a scam."
Well, well RB.....so if a girl is ashamed of something and she makes herself look better by saying she is something she is not.......it is a scam??? If a girl from your city tells you a lie...it is a scam? If a coworker lies about where she went during lunch....it is a scam?
Don't you think guys shouldn't believe everything they is told. Talk is cheap. Anyone can say anything in a letter. Unfortunately, in long distance relationships you don't find out much till you actually meet the other person. There are times in letters you can tell a little bit about a girl
but nothing beats meeting....
"We all know that life is hard in the FSU. If a western guy comes and has money, why not get all you can?"
This comes from RB that has no problem sending a girl money and gifts.
I think it is the guy with the $$$ that is trying to seduce( buy) the girl than the other way around.
What wrong...doesn't the guy have a mouth to say no.......which would mean that no hanky panky is possible then.
If you look for the meaning of scam, yes that is a scam. The word is not used that often for something like that, but yes it is a scam to lie to make you believe in something that is not.
I don't know if you know, Beemer, but I have met the woman (and her daughter) I am sending money to. I am looking for signs that I am being scammed, but I don't see it. For example, if she lies or she is unavailable for a phone call on many nights. I think a scammer would have trouble telling the truth all the time and then scam. That is why I believe that I have an honest girl this time. Yes, I am sending money to her, but it is to help her and her daughter out and not to induce her to be with me. There are more guys here reading this that are doing things like me, but are afraid to admit it because of the response from people like you.
All I am saying is that I am aware that she can be a scam. Sorry, but I believe her. I also said some do and some don't about western men with money. It is all about hard times. Sometimes this is what they need to do to survive. Yes, I am a sucker to a woman who has to take care of a child and the father is not helping or not around. I do remember living in the Philippines when I was very young. Money was hard to come by, and yes, scams were popular. People in my family send money and gifts to the relatives in the Philippines, I send mine to Ukraine. I don't even know those relatives anymore. Ask people from Mexico. They do the same.
The second girl I visited was a liar. I know that because she would be telling me what she would tell others, and I have caught her with lies to me. It was no surprise to me when she finally told me that she spent the money I gave her for a business license. When she told me that the hotel was $100 per night, I suspected otherwise, but I paid it through her..... I already told this story. After everything I still got out of there within my budget. Still, I know she did that to take care of her son.
Thanks for the post, and your perspective. It's convenient to fall into black/white thinking, in the case of this forum perhaps the "bad girls" vs. the "good guys". But you reminded me, it's about people being human, and finding ways (some great, some lousy) to meet universal needs. Lots of men and women have done ugly things, trying to take care of their family (a fact, not a defense).
It so happens that I'm most comfortable trying to speak and write truthfully at all times (which isn't always a good thing), and I'm really unhappy when I know (or suspect) someone is dishonest to me. But psychologists tell us that all people lie, sometimes (the only exceptions being certain severe brain defects).
And of course, the "good guys" cover the spread from pretty damn good to pretty damn rotten - and the extremes can get mixed up in one man.
When I decide that I'm right and the other person is wrong, then there's no need for me to look at myself... right? But maybe, the more I'm honest with myself (about who I am, what I want, and what I'm willing to give up in order to get there), and honest with others (speaking out when something feels wrong), the less vulnerable I am to "bad girls".
What dictionaries say about scam:
1. A ploy by a shyster to raise money.
2., A fraudulent business scheme. To scam means to victimize
3. A confidence trick, confidence game, or con for short (also known as a scam) is an attempt to intentionally mislead a person or persons (known as the mark) usually with the goal of financial or other gain.
RB......Where does the word 'LIE' be those definitions? Maybe Deceit...for financial gain. A lie is a lie, not necessarily a scam. There are people who just lie their way through life, where ever that country would be. So it can very likely girls do lie for whatever reason that could be. If I guy finds out, then there is trust broken but you have to see what the lie is first.
Now if a girl told me she wanted $$$ for a trip to USA, then yes she is lieing to get money from me...that to me is a scam. If same girl told me she is going to take a trip to visit me, I may think she is lieing but no scam because no asking for $$$$. See the difference???
Also, RB, I do know you met the girl you are sending money to....I am not speaking of her but there were other girl(s) you have sent $$ or gifts to, right? AS some members have told me here....these girls were doing fine before you met them.
Let us not get into the argument of what is a scam. It is a lie for gain.
I have not sent money to anyone else. I have sent gifts in a period of several months to a teacher from Zaporozhye before I even visited Ukraine. I sent her books to finish her doctorate or equivalent. There was a book, written in 1963 on English prose that she was trying to get before she met me. She even called the author. I suspect she could not afford it. There was only 25 in existence and I found one on Amazon for $30.
I also sent her a complete set of Harry Potter books on paperback ($8.99 a piece) and Harry Potter videos (12.95 a piece) and some of my old videos, and my old business textbooks, which she needed for teaching her class. Up to that time, she had no Harry Potter books, which she loved and was borrowing her friends. I also sent her a digital camera so she can take pictures of Ukraine, her and her family to send to me. Other than my current girl and this teacher, I believe I sent a basket of fruit through AOB once or twice because of a holiday.
Doing fine is a matter of interpretation. If I care for someone, I cannot bear to see them going without.
Call it a scam call it what you like but it is what these girls do is the problem. I say to a particular girl i think in English you think in Ukrainian, that is where the cultural difference kicks in, what is ok behaviour to her is totaly wrong to me and then the paranoid belief of being scammed kicks in. In my correspondance with her she has told me her computer is broke and it costs a lot to get it repaired, my reply is thats a shame laptops and things are cheap here. Knowing this the seed has been planted she knows if she asks nicely i will send her a new laptop, is that a scam or is it me being generous and her receiving a gift. Also i found out where i can get her English lessons that i can pay for from here with regular progress reports on her progress. She thought that was great and was interested, she then says she can get it cheaper and her sisters friend is an English teacher, i ask how will i pay and she says Western union. My reaction to this is oh really and the money goes straight in her pocket and she never takes the lessons. Maybe she is going to take the lessons but from where i stand she is starting to look like a scam. I will insist on her taking the lessons and doing it my way and see what happens. It is difficult because i have to try to get into her mindset and make adjustments for what is normal behaviour for her in order to take a balanced stance on where we stand. It is right it is too easy to jump to the conclusion of being scammed but all i will say is it is not right that some of these women make no effort to understand western mentality and react in a negative way when you look like you will not spend your money on them for no good reason. They need to learn about us as much as we need to learn about them.
I have a lot of experiences in traveling the world and with meeting new girls in each country I have visited. Guys, if you are just a little bit smart and look genuine, you can meet and go out every evening with a different girl. Keep in mind that Beautiful girl does mean nothing in those countries. They are all Super Beautiful and it makes absolutely no differences for their "mens". I will make it simple. Just go to any commercial galleries, go to any department stores, engage a conversation with a chosen girl about the items you would like to buy.. goods, perfumes, any... than You ask her to help you to choose your product (witch is actually her job as seller) and because you don't speak her language. Believe me they will do their best to help, even to speak your language. Is on to you to see and guess the right moments if you can ask her to meet later for a "genuine and friendly diner" and ask her if she would accept to assist you to visit her town, her country because you love it but you don't know any body there.
I tell you guys.. The results?? On 10 girls approached, 8 girls came out with me and even stay few days with me in my hotel and spend time with me outdoor.
Don't forget that for them is a prestige to be treated as a queen, to go to a nice restaurant, walking around with a genuine foreigner, but overall, not being exploited by pims, agencies, interpreter and others rats who use those wonderful persons. Try it.
I still just do not understand why men who use forums like this or have read about finding a FSU wife in the net still approach agency girls and use pay per everything dating agencies.
Well I sort of know, you visit the website of that Anastasia agency and all pages are covered with glossy photos of beautiful model like girls (are there no plain girls in the FSU according to them?). Then you start getting these pop up messages, with the picture of a model, addressing you by your name and saying "I would like to chat with you now", then you feel tempted to click and start chatting with the 'girl' and it goes on from there.....
Remember fellers, when it comes to women we think with our downstairs equipment. The agencies know this well.
"I would not go to art galleries, bars, museums and other places in the Ukraine to try and pick up a Ukrainian lady for the simple reason that the great majority of them are not interested in meeting and marrying some older Westerner and they are not interested in going to his country either. In fact, many of them take offence and I have read comments in Facebook by Russian and Ukrainian girls who are p*ssed off with foreigners assuming that they are game and available to them, especially the attractive ones. They hate romantic approaches by foreign men.
I just go directly to the places (dating agencies) where the women make it clear that it is a foreigner they want to meet, marry and go to his country."
The agencies and websites want you to believe you need them for introduction, translation, video conferencing and even travel, apartments and hotels.
At this point, you only need them for is introduction and translation. The rest, you can get on the web. As the FSU gets more and more educated in English, translation technology develops and the expansion of social media, the need for agencies and websites become less and less.