Been watching this one from a distance, wanted to contribute.
I’m not the Messiah or Godfather on FSU information on here, by no means. I leave that role to others! And I’ve only been to “the land of milk & honey” the once.
“Guys hunting for a trophy wife as they say, get what they deserve. In reality it's not common to find a 50ish guy with a 25 year old here in the states, why would they think the mentality would be different in Ukraine? One reason and one reason only, that they can buy beauty with their money and material lifestyle which is a vacant concept and in no way promotes a healthy and loving relationship”
Incorrect - It isn’t “one reason and one reason only” Check every single marriage and dating agency on the internet to do with FSU women and they all have the same FAQ sections etc. In those sections the information they put out is clear…….they tell us that FSU women are “less interested in a man’s age”. Almost every profile of an FSU women on any site states that she will consider men up to 15yrs older than herself.
Therefore, first and foremost, Westerner men are brainwashed in to believing that FSU women really don’t put too much emphasis on age difference.
If we write here in a “factual” manner, at least let’s make sure we get them right?
Fact: If you believe what an agency advertises, you're in trouble already.
Fact: I never stated that it is the one and only reason, but it is the biggest reason of many failures here.
Fact: You need to communicate with these ladies first and find out where their minds are really at.
Fact: Many clowns here have gone over there with the savior mentality thinking that their material and personal wealth can buy beauty. They know little of the area and think they are pulling them out of the jaws of poverty. Then when they get them home in the states they find out that most just middle class guys who blew a lot of smoke then have to put up or shut up.
Fact: If your brainwashed by an agency or advertisements, time to bail out already, you're bound for disaster.
Fact: One trip I flew with a guy from New York, a real goofball telling me how in love with this girl he was and was meeting her in Donetsk. Never met her and she was stunning buy very young maybe 20 if that. My wife met me at the airport and his lady did too, dressed to kill, he introduced us. My wife told me as we got in Sasha's Taxi, why are American men so stupid? Thinking that a child wants to be with an old man. Well he wasn't old, but old enough to be her father.
On my return trip I ran into Steve at Donetsk airport, His girl ditched him after a couple of days and he just hung out at the Hotel and did nothing. He was very depressed, I did feel kind of sorry for him, but he set himself up. Thinking because he had a couple of bucks in his pocket a great job, that he could have the pick of the litter. That's what western men think and that isn't advertised in any FAQ or Agency ad.
So if I need to write in a more factual matter, please let me know. The big fact of the big losers are they think they can buy it all. Then when they can't because the are complete losers they come in these forums and demean and belittle women from the FSU. That is another fact.
I don't question your experience or knowledge, clearly, it is vast and valueble to most who come here but, your previous post clearly states, and I quote from it directly again.......
“Guys hunting for a trophy wife as they say, get what they deserve. In reality it's not common to find a 50ish guy with a 25 year old here in the states, why would they think the mentality would be different in Ukraine? ONE REASON AND ONE REASON ONLY, that they can buy beauty with their money and material lifestyle which is a vacant concept and in no way promotes a healthy and loving relationship”
I DID question the "one reason and one reason only" which you now seem to have ammended to......." Fact: I never stated that it is the one and only reason, but it is the biggest reason of many failures here"
There are a number of reasons why it fails for us Western men once we arrive in Ukraine, and the reasons you give are perfectly right, I saw with my own eyes, men chatting up girls, and in one case, actually mawling her, when they just didn't have a chance. Out of shape men, balding, fat, and, yes, some obviously throwing their money around.
But, my point still stands, the age gap is thrown out at Western men from almost every source of information on the net as being practically irrelevant as far as FSU females are concerned, (not everyone finds this forum and have the benefit of your and others wisdom) Practically all sources of info also state that FSU women are more traditional, will partner for life, are more pleasing to the eye etc etc. I address many of these things in a different post right after I had returned from Ukraine, as I saw them.
In summary then - When a Western man does his pre-visit research, which I'm sure even you would advocate, what is he to believe before he goes and finds out for himself?
Let's see if I can clarify my One reason only statement. There are many reasons westerners fail in the FSU, but the majority who look for the young trophy wife think they can overcome the age difference is with their bank accounts. They rationalize that the dollars can circumvent the age gap. I mean to each his own, but too many guys have come back here and blistered the ladies from the FSU because they were doomed from the start. That's why I stated the one reason only. Logic would dictate and I don't know exactly , that a guy that is 50 chasing after a girl 25 years old stands little chance of making it work. 20 years down the road when he is 70 and she's 45 what's going to be the bond to hold them together? Nothing is impossible, but the odds are a long shot. The bond that held them together in the beginning is money, what is going to do that later? There was a former member here who once quipped, "Well I don't know what she thinks she has so great going for her in Russia, it's a hell hole." That's a pretty arrogant statement. Beyond the stupidity of that statement there's an underlying mentality that these guys are doing these girls a favor, by removing them from abject poverty. What they seem to forget the majority of these girls come from the same social economic environment. There are gold diggers sure, but much of that mentality was created by the men in the west. Hell we have gold diggers here. Agencys seem to advertise to the stupidity of the American male.
One of my last trips to Ukraine, I met a guy in Zurich who was from Rochester New York who was Travelling to meet his girl for the first time in Donetsk. You could tell this guy was a social misfit, yeah he had a business and was making good money, but wow, talk about the square peg trying to fit in the round hole. He was 39 and he was going to meet a girl who was 19 or 20 and was telling me how much he loved this girl etc. Never met her but was in love. He was telling the the Agency line, that it's very common for big age differences in the Ukraine to work. He showed me her picture and she looked more like his daughter than a girlfriend/fiance. Steve kept chatting on and on asking me about my fiance and how old she was etc. He couldn't understand why I chose a woman so close to my age when the pond was full of 20 somethings just dying to meet an older American guy. He didn't like my response that he was chasing a myth. Well he met my wife and I met his girl in Donetsk. On the way to Sasha's taxi my wife asked why American men were so foolish? Why American men think that these young girls were going to stay with them. Well I met Steve on my return trip. His girl dumped him after 3 days, he spent the next 11 days in his hotel room watching the BBC because he didn't know what to do next. His money didn't help much there. I kind of felt sorry for him, but he got what he deserved. On the flight back we talked a bit. He said he would never go back to Ukraine because it was all a big rip off and that in the future I would see the same thing. He became the instant expert on women from Ukraine. He just didn't want to accept the blame himself. He had the opportunity to learn like everyone else but chose to accept an Agencys hype, I'm sure they set up the hotel room, made his arrangements for him. Then when he got dumped I'm sure he got pissed and raised a little hell with the manager and they said screw this guy, your on your own now.
Where does a guy learn. I took some advice from an old forum member TimH. Spend a couple of weeks reading this forum. Then go and read other forums, then connect the dots. He said you would see a common thread among the successful guys and a similar one with those not so successful. I also communicated with guys here off the board. We were also lucky to be graced with the presence of Ptichka, who is probably more responsible for my success with my wife than any other person here. She gave us the insight of the east/west relationship through the eyes of a Ukrainian woman. She advised me on the nuances of dating and courting a lady from Ukraine. Her advice and support will never be forgotten. God bless you Tanya!!!
So yeah there are many reasons, but the one and only reason I see guys fail 100% of the time is when they think they can buy beauty no matter how anal retentive they are. No matter what the age difference. They think they are doing these girls a favor by removing them from poverty and bringing them to the land of milk and honey. They think because they have the bucks they can have the pick of the litter. They think these girls will fall at their feet because of their money.
On my first trip to Ukraine I was asked by a woman if I was shocked by the living conditions my wife came form. I told her no, I've seen worse in other countries. I told her I wasn't there to take someone from a certain lifestyle, but to meet a decent woman. Well I got lucky there. I did meet and marry not only a beautiful woman both inside and out, but one of the most wonderful human beings I've had the pleasure to share time with. A woman who puts more into our relationship than I have ever experienced in my life. I'm lucky, honored and proud to call her my wife. Along the way I've got the pleasure to meet some outstanding guys in this search. We come from all backgrounds. We have this common link, we were looking for a woman who shared the same values and goals as we did. Women who just don't pay lip service to it, but actually live it. Women who didn't place material gain as the foremost importance in their lives. Women who won't fall to pieces when the chips are down. We didn't put expectations on them that we wouldn't adhere to ourselves. We weren't looking for mothers or house slaves but women who valued the difference between the genders. It's there in Ukraine, most all my wifes friends are like her. Sorry about being long winde
so i guess Michael douglas is not the child snatcher that he has been reported as being the media when he married the young tart Catherine Jones.some 28 year age difference between him and her.
I reckon somewhere out there is an ordinary 50 year old man not wealthy that is married to his 25 year old wife and probably been together more than 5 years married. and there lots of these types of relationships in europe and u.s that we do not hear about.
there are a lot of twenty something ladies married to 50 year old guys But it does help if the man has money sad to say but that is the glue that holds a lot of relationships together. As you mention it would Catherine sulka Jones be interested in Michael Douglas if he were an average guy working down the factory? No of course not.But the age difference is often overlooked by the women if the guy is wealthy or has some other important influential friends .
welldone,kingarthur for sharing your moments with other members.well l share the views of those that did not see wrong with befriending a 18year old girl.this is an acceptable age limit of mature adult,so, l advise you to ahead and treat her gently.more grease to your elbow.
When addressing the 50 yr old to 20 yr old issue, it is easy to generalize and say that is inappropriate.
But in reality, we are all individuals with our own thoughts and actions. You can be 50 and have the mindset of someone much younger or be some overweight, out of shape, embarrassment to mankind. What is important is the match
of interests, values and chemistry between a guy and girl, not the age difference. If some guy has one foot in the grave, sure a 20 something girl may not be right for him.
I relayed this story before but when I was last in Kiev, I saw this 2 older( looks not age) guys checking out these PYT's on an agency computer, trying to figure out who to meet. I thought to myself, these guys are idiots, now I understand part of what is going on this scam/dater/gold digger thing....it's the idiot guys. One of the guys I saw a couple days later in an internet cafe, he was telling (complaining) about what happened to him......how girl got dinner and drinks and at end shook his hand and said thank you. I asked him...what are you expecting???? I would have done the same thing if I was that girl. To hear him speak for more than I couple minutes made me want to get up and leave. I was surprised the girl made it through dinner.
I like to think I have enough of a personality to at least have a chance with a younger girl, who knows, after some time you can develop something. Guys have to have something that interests the girl. Could be looks or personality.......something to get her attention, after that it falls on chemistry between you. Money is the last thing in world to build a relationship on, whether you poor, middle class or a millionaire. Believe me, being from
Los Angeles, I see exactly what being rich means.....unhappinesss...sure you can get lots of babes, party all the time, hob nob but it is all transparent. Your high one day then crash the next. ie. Brittney, Paris, Lindsey, Nicole,
...need I go on!!!!!
There was a news item on Australian TV not so long ago. A baby was snatched from a mother while she was shopping at the mall and the distressed couple were being interviewed TV. The mother was in her mid twenties and the father was 56. Not much was said about this 30 year age gap but a funny story followed. A few days later another young woman, both were reasonably good looking, was on the news saying that this guy was her husband. So this guy was not only able to find one girl less than hlf his age, but found two at the same time. The guy was not rich. He had left the first wife a few months before saying he was going to get labouring job, to earn them some money. Didnt look that handsome to me either. And he hadnt travelled to the FSU to find them, they were Australian girls.
Can only imagine what he had that interested them ))
I live in L.A. also, and for the most part I agree with your post. But I think you generalize a bit yourself in saying that being rich means unhappiness. Having money beats being broke, in my view.
On the age thing, I have to agree – it’s mainly the older guys who have little to offer young girls, but try to be with them anyway, that create the scammer/gold digger problem. If you’re older, but have something to offer, be it looks, personality, character or anything of value to a younger girl, by all means go for it, but keep your eyes open. Face it guys, we’re hardwired by nature to be attracted to youth and beauty, but despite that genetic programming, try to think at least as much with the head on your shoulders as the one between your legs, and you can avoid both heartbreak and bankruptcy. And you might even find a woman to be your life partner, or at least have some great experiences.
I regularly get letters from teenagers on this site – and I just turned 59! I sure as hell don’t look like it; in fact I market my own personal fitness system on one of my websites. Even so, getting letters from teenagers if you’re an older guy probably means one of three things:
1. They’re scammers and/or gold diggers.
2. They’re generating income for an agency by writing to guys who have to pay for each letter because they’re not V.I.P. level members.
3. They’re vying for “Miss Wow” status by soliciting lots of letters.
Some of them may be sincere, or just curious about someone my age that still looks good – or maybe that’s my ego talking. Personally, I’m not attracted to women my age. At the risk of sounding arrogant, very few of them have taken care of themselves like I have, and they’re just not physically attractive. I don’t care what incredible qualities they may have, if there’s no physical chemistry for me, a relationship won’t work. Of course I want character, intellect and all the other “inner world” goodies, and there are plenty of gorgeous women in their thirties who have all that and will still be hot for many years. If they’re 25 years younger than me, no problem.
Bottom line, keep your eyes open and find out what’s really going on inside her heart and mind, no matter how old you both are.
Good to hear from you....LA is a place that is hard to beat, of any place in world.
Yes, I did generalize but I didn't mean being rich/poor, I meant doing well as opposed to being rich.
In regard to letters, I rarly ever answer letters from girls if they make first contact, that is a sign
of daters/scammers/gold diggers/make money per letter. I try to stay in control of communication, not too
many letters too fast( no content in letters) or letters so far spaced out... no real communication.
I agree about older women, just not attracted to them and they cannot keep up with me. Most women I date are in their 30's and we have great times but something is always missing. Going so far as FSU is just giving me an
opportunity to maybe meet what I am looking for and having a great time while looking. I still date back
at home but am not ready to give up on these beautiful girls in Ukraine.
I do think relationships between 50 year old guys and 25 year girls are bound to fail. If I was 50 I would do what Nasfan did and find a women who is older, say 35 to 40. Finding a 25 year old girl who would go for a 50 year old guy may not be that hard (especially if your on first name terms with Brittney Spears, Paris Hilton), but that’s the easy part. Living with her afterwards is the hard part. But as ramusic10 says guys are programmed to seek out the prettiest girls.
However I do know one FSU girl who is beautiful, 25, well educated and not interested in money. She was in love with a Turkish guy in his 50's and she said she loved him for his maturity. However the guy was married and wasn't going to leave his wife and she was sad about. She would always say he made her feel like a real women and he did treat her very well. I would never have believed it unless she told me.
As I mentioned before, to generalize, it is true that relationship between a 40+ yr old guy and 25 yr old girl
is bound for failure. I am not looking to settle on just any 25yr old. If I don't find what I'm looking for, then
I'll just pursue another avenue. In the meantime, I have met plenty of very nice girls in their 20's and maybe
one day I'll meet a girl that is right for me. Also, when looking at a persons age...that does not tell the
whole story....look at their interests and matureness and that will tell if some 50 yr old guy and some 25yr old
girl would have anything in common. Beauty is seen in the eyes of the beholder.
Honestly? I think its arrogant for anyone to say they know the ingredients to all relationships based on age.
I met with two very pretty 18 year old girls from Ukraine with whom I met in person -- one was cold and too insincere and stuck on herself. While the other 18 year old girl was affectionate, warm, caring and passionate during our very first meeting if you could imagine. She was very mature and beautiful by anyone's standards.
Just how can anyone say there is a standard golden-rule of relationships based on age. And no, I am not going to bad mouth the entire agency system just because I met one hot-looking 18 yr old FSU girl who a cold, gold digger, because I wasted six months of writing letter I paid for.
The agency knew what happened, and any good agency will set you up with someone else to chose from. The next day I dumped girl, I met one an even younger, hot 18 yr old from the same agency without writing her. This second girl was very beautiful, cuter than most girls I have seen in the US. She was warm, affectionate, sensual -- and I discovered all this on our first lunch at a romantic countryside restaraunt.
So I know things first hand and get tired of guys saying the system is bad, scammers everywhere. Yet, I also find it annoying when people say things without knowing the whole truth... like age...
Note: Btw, both girls I met were from Army of Brides.com website.
Guys, each woman in FSU is unique. Nasfan mentioned the guy from Rochester was a guy with his own business trying to meet a young girl younger by twice his age, yet nasfan also writes he didn't think the guy had a chance at all, because he was a flake (social misfit). So why say it was just age? Did your wife speak for all agency girls where they are all saying this somewhere about it being impossible because of the age difference?
Counter argument *(Ballbusting time)* Now If the guy looked like a great looking guy who dressed smartly and had a great smiling personality would you have sized him up so quickly? I don't think so. I think your confusing looks with age. Although sometimes they do coincide when a man who looks older and worse than his photos revealed in his profile and letters. A girl has to be attracted to the guy (looks, money, power, potential, personality, maturity, etc). It is as simple as that.
This is online dating, and in this day and age, first off -- you got to have something special going for you if you think your gonna get anywhere with a stunningly attractive girl who is unsure about leaving the FSU in the first place.
Truth: I knew more than one female friend in the USA in her early 20's, who would not even date men UNLESS they were 2x her age or more (50+). They just were very attracted chemically to more mature men. From all the letters we read, time and time again, I read how fed up a lot of FSU women are to the local guys their same age -- and translators will agree to this as a commonly known issue with the local men.
IMHO -- I just think your confusing some unfortunate, unattractive guy with unrealistic expectations who thought he could find his perfect girl simply because he made 6-figures or maybe more -- and confusing this issue with the difference in their age. I have heard it is acceptable for a girl of 18 to marry a handsome man of 30 and sometimes even 40, and a woman in her early 20's to be attracted to someone in their 40's and even sometimes their late 50's, etc. It's just one of those strange things about this world...
In Colombia there were single guys there puttering around in their late 60's pawning after 18 yr olds, and that happened too.. I was just amazed...
Nasfan -- Congratulations that you are still with your chosen girl. But please don't go telling us your version of the truth and say its the honest way things are there.. Cause its a half-truth and not the whole story. But you are entitled to your opinion. And it's simply just your own opinion. It is far from being accurate to any degree worth mentioning. You are a bit opionionated and a bit defensive on the issue... because you state how guys badger you that you chose someone more closer to your age - don't try to convince us of your own insecurities and tell us its the way things work there. You need to really analyze your one piece of anecdotal evidence more closely (that poor sap from Rochester).
He should have just gone to the agency and met the other girls... I will write one girl I really like, then be completely prepared to hit one agency after the other should it fail. And 9x out of 10 -- first meetings fail -- regardless of age having anything to do with anything...
Far from a half truth Apal. Go on dreaming. I've seen it work very little with an age difference of 15 years or more. I'm far from defensive on the issue. Opinionated yes, but with a couple of years under my belt in this journey. I've seen it too many times, the 20-25 year age difference hitting the wall. I only know of one person that has 15 years difference making it work. Him being 40 and her 25, more rational.
As for my wife speaking, it is what she knows and had experience. Seeing guys twice the girls age getting taken for a ride. Now lets delve into the Ukainian mindset. Since she was 42 at the time why wasn't she looking for someone 60? Her profile list max of 50. Now since she is native ukrainian and will tell me the virtures of the 20-25 year age difference. They don't exist. Young ukrainian women don't want that. It's just that simple. Nothing is impossible, but you are setting yourself up to get taken. Most younger ukrainian women want to meet professional men, mostly western Europe is the farther they want to travel from home.
Apal it seems you buy into alot of the agency bravado. We had another guy here like that, used to like to say he had heavy contacts within an agency, but was still doing the same thing promoting the continual lie that agencies are here to help guys find mates. As for knowing many in the states only wanting to date guys much older, We call them gold diggers in our neighbor hood. Let me see, she talks about dating the 50 year old maintenance guy down at the local factory yes? I will bad mouth the whole agency thing. Because beyond translation of letters the agency does very little except help you extract your dollars to them. Until we learn that the agency does not have your interest in heart the better off you are. Army of Brides is out of Mariupol Ukraine, I know them very well, Oleg is a thief and his girls in the agency run a continual scam. Of the few places in Ukraine I know about, Mariupol is the one I know the most about. Most letters aren't authentic from there. You met a cold, gold digger from Army of brides, what a surprise, she needs to move on to the next victim.
Nasfan6. Army of Brides do seem to have got rather a bad reputation.So the owner in Mariupol you have had some experience with him? he is a thief ? It would be interest to me here some details of this person as i will be passing through Mariupol in October when i visit ukraine.I have spent a few dollars on army of brides site but i had some suspicions about them so in end i stayed away and now i do not use that agency at all.
Nasfan - so your the world's leading relationship expert? And the world's expert on one city in Ukraine?
Geezus -- Give me a break.
You met your girl and you sit there trying to delude yourself that all these relationships everywhere in the world with 20+ years age difference I have seen personally are all not possible.
Whether you believe it or not, it happens. Whether you agree or not -- it happens. Your stubborn belief doesn't change the actual fact it happens and always will happen. Now you are just showing us your lack of any intelligent arguments. 50 yr old factory worker? Omfg - pathetic thought process. Not gold-diggers, but actual chemistry towards older men.
Besides I don't hold no agency line that says anything. I see things for myself. It was you who stated that guys pester you about why you didn't chose a younger woman? I think it is YOU who has serious deep seated issues on the subject.
Hell I date girls much younger than me here in the US. So why the hell not in the FSU or in Latin America? lol! But I don't look like a social misfit in the slightest. A good looking guy has no problems finding women of all ages anywhere in the world -- you don't have to take my word for it -- but its very true -- whether you want to believe it -- or just crawl back in your shell and pretend that me and all these other guys who do it are liars.
Your trying to hold on to some delusion and trying to make everyone believe you -- with one extreme example of some poor sap with no looks trying for the young hot girl 2x younger than him.
You also seem to have a lot of defensive statements and then tell us that Army of Brides is all a scam. Hmn, I used them, both my dates showed up. I didn't spend all that much money using them. So your gonna tell me its a complete scam? Go ahead but you just make yourself seem like more of an ignorant know-it-all chump who knows nothing but irrelevant opinions of someone who wants to become the world's expert of all FSU relationships... geezus...
Apal, showing up from Army of Brides is not a scam. You're a bit naive. Why not show up, it's the new method of scamming. So much has been written about girls not showing up, now the methodology has changed. Scammers are a bit clever and learn real quick. So if you didn't dump any money no big deal. How many agencies does Oleg operate? Talk to some of the girls in Mariupol and get their opinion. Then tell me about ignorant.
Delusion? I doubt it, the more delusional aspect is thinking a woman half your age is really serious. Or can really be serious. It's also more than one example than the goofball from Rochester. All the relationships around the world. I bet the 20-25 age difference doesn't even make 10% of the unions world wide. So if I was an actuary, I wouldn't give that reall good odds.
As for being a chump, you'll be writing here two years from now telling us how many times you've been chumped by the child crowd. Hey do what you want, it's your time and money, but who is trying to implore more that the 20 year age difference is going to work? Dating is one thing, serious relationship is another. No one pestered me, they made a comment on the delusional aspect, as the one that you implore, that these young 20 somethings are ready to leave their countries to spend the rest of their lives with a guy twice their age. It's not reality, but you'll believe and endorse the agency line. If you have travelled enough to Mariupol will find guys in their 50's who have bucks, have the young girls hanging all over them. What makes you think they will bolt to the good ol' USofA when they can find it at home.