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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > Asking her to give up everything for me Author Post harantis Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/11/2007 6:32:50 PM   I/O, I'm hoping you'll pick up on this little piece of a comment you made in another thread. Giving up everything, as completely as an FSU woman would have to give it up to marry and move to the US, takes the notion of risk taking to new heights. I'm accustomed to taking big risks in the business world, but never am I flying by the seat of my pants. I've always done my homework and been able to measure the risk/reward scenarios to several decimal places. Having travel rather widely to countries around the world, the notion of day-to-day life in the US is absolutely incalculable to many people from the 3rd world. How do you explain to someone that New York City is the only place on the planet where people can steal the socks off your feet, without removing your shoes ? It has to be lived in order to be understood. While I'm firm in my belief that indeed the US is the land of opportunity, and if you can't "make it" here, you can't make it anyplace, I am still acutely aware of the risk. So I'm wondering if those more experienced in this arena could begin to discuss they risk these women are taking so that us dumb American men can begin to understand it, be sensitive to it, and being to mollify it. Thanks august456 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/11/2007 7:00:52 PM   be very careful when finding a woman in a fsu country. it is difficult for a woman to move from her country(friends and family) and move to america with some stranger that she only knows for a short time. the woman has to make this big choice and move to country where she does not speak the language and does not know anyone. and a lot of women will not want to. I/O Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/12/2007 12:06:20 AM   Harantis: I guess in the first instance, I'd cleave to all the married guys in the USA to glean their personal experience. The USA is similar to here and it is not similar to here. Certainly much closer than European cultures. I'd really like my other half to expound on this, but she simply answers, "You need very be strong" LOL. Maybe if you agree, the Mod's can transfer this to the Get smart Get lucky thread and we could wrap it all into the one? Just a thought. Your question is huge, but let me take a shot at just a few things I have picked up. She now has her network of friends and family. Suddenly you become her one and only lifeline. No matter how good her language is, she needs you to do something as simple as buy milk and bread for a while. She has always been a strong and probably independant women. Suddenly she is as a 5 y/o child for a short time, needing you for every single thing. This can be devastating to the pride and ego of any person, much more one who has been strong enough to take this route. She may have worked extremely hard to gain her education and had to tough it out to make it to a reasonable level in the workplace. Now she is thrown into a situation where her qualifications are often worth nothing and is reduced to simple if any work. The devastation of this can be immense. You must do everything you can to help her track her life back towards who she was when you met, that is the confident, smart Russian lady. You can't do it for her, but you can help facilitate it. She will just go through hell in the lead up to her arrival. No matter how strong she is, stress does take it's toll. Simple things she never expected like "Personal Cyclic" issues, skin problems, split nails, just to name a few. Don't panic or pressure her when you sense she is backing off a little just at the crucial time. It is normal. You need patience beyond the level you ever imagined. You just HAVE to be there for her whenever she needs you, right from the time the two of you make that final decision until long after her arrival. Some handle this very well and some really struggle. Every person is different. You both have to understand and adopt the policy of "How we make this work, not if we make this work". The out gate must never be an option for either of you. If you bring your partner on a K-1 and see how we go basis, I can tell you exactly how you will go. Right back to the airport at the 85-89 day stage to kiss her good bye. I guess it would be fair to say that more than ever, she will be looking to you as a rock of security. Thus you need to be very comfortable in your own skin. You need to be very consistent in everything you do and say. For a while, everything will be wonderful in this new country and then after a time, nothing will be half as good as it was in Russia. Tis how 'tis....LOL. You must have joint goals and targets, even if they are simple things such as we will visit this or that interesting place on a given weekend or date. The other thng to agree from day one IMHO is a date for the first trip back to Russia. This is important for her to understand that she is not in jail. Jail: Your home can become such a place for your new wife. In Russia or other FSU countries, usually she can walk a few minutes and catch a mini bus here or there. Suburban USA or Aus is like living in a village by comparison. She WILL hate that for some time. No maybe's, she WILL hate it. It is just so different. Things to get her up to speed with very quickly are transport, basic household purchases, language study, places of interest. Be careful not to Americanise her too much. Let her be who she is when you met her. Let her Russianise you as much as she likes. The Americanisation will take care of itself. LOL Harantis: There is much Rah Rah in all of that and I fear I havn't really answered your question, however, my impression is this. You are thinking seriously about this and that in and of itself will put you in a better position to deal with this issue than many. Try to find some Russian people through clubs, restaurants, maybe Orthodox churches etc and talk with them. Better from the horses mouth than the horses arse, which is basically what I am on this subject so to say. I/O harantis Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/12/2007 10:44:40 PM   I/O, Thanks for writing. At the risk of sounding immodest, I know my question is huge. That’s why I asked. I’m not in the habit of getting bogged down in trivia. I recognize that this is perhaps the biggest challenge of all, helping her be successful in a new life, with a new man, in a foreign country. It isn’t going to be a tourist visit for her, it’s going to be life, and it’s going to be a BIG adjustment. I think your comments start in the right place. Indeed, I would become her one and only lifeline. I’ve pondered this at great length. How is it that one instills in a woman the requisite level of confidence in me that I will not let her down, no matter what ! I’m guessing this is a significant challenge when you’re talking about a woman who is very independent in her own country. How much ambition and self-confidence does it take to overcome this hurdle I wonder ? I’d considered the issue of language education too. I would imagine that this is extremely important for even the best of English speakers, particularly for a woman who comes from a land with a Cyrillic alphabet. I know the Cyrillic alphabet certainly gets my eyes rolling around in my head (in opposite directions). I can imagine the Latin alphabet would present similar challenges for one with a Cyrillic background. While the challenges are far more daunting in an international marriage, your point is well taken regarding the “out gate.” International or domestic marriage, the question is always the same, “How strong the commitment to success.” Your point about home becoming jail is a point well taken. I’d considered that. Added to my list of expenses upon her arrival was learning how to drive (if she doesn’t already) getting a license and a new car for her, as public transport is non-existent in my part of suburbia. In addition to a work permit, a car is integral to any type of employment around here, and I see early employment as an absolutely crucial part of the equation. It will doubtless help build her self-confidence, not to mention ease some of the financial burdens. I can’t imagine how she’d possibly have the chance to integrate into American society sitting in my house seven days a week. With my encouragement and support, she’s got to get out and about even though she’ll make some mistakes. But a bigger mistake is to not get her out there. The only failure is not trying. I hadn’t considered setting a fixed date for the first trip back to her home turf. That’s an excellent idea. Excuse my ignorance, but do you have any idea how long she has to keep her feet planted on US soil before she can travel outside the US without jeopardizing her immigration status ? (I’ve also considered this issue for me. If she has to stay planted in the US for awhile, I might have take my first domestic vacation in many a year). I suppose I’ll have to struggle through …. LOL. Another interesting comment about “Russianizing” me. I have been reading a lot about many of the religious and ethnic customs in the many regions of the former FSU. Some of them are indeed rather foreign to many Americans, particularly to one of my American heritage which dates back to 1640. Frankly, we’re somewhat bland. “Tradition” is not a virtue treasured in modern America. Ice cream on our apple pie is the sometimes limit of excitement for us. I never ask much from my friends and family, but on this, I’m going to need their help and support. I’ve been clear with them, I expect them to deliver when the time comes. Diet is another issue someone mentioned in another thread. I can guarantee that borsht simply can’t be found on the supermarket shelves here. I know when I ask for “Craw Dads” at the seafood counter here in New England, they sometimes look at me like I have two heads. The don’t even know where Craw Dads come from, much less do they recognize Louisiana is only 1,500 miles away. I know that on my trips to China and the far east and am VERY glad to get home and resume a normal diet. Even in parts of Europe the diet is without question somewhat different. A lot to think about, a lot to learn, a lot to consider. Feel free to pick me apart or set me straight where appropriate. So far you education has been free, and much appreciated. You’ve confirmed a lot of things I already suspected, opened my eyes to some, and emphasized a greater importance on yet others. Thanks. Harantis harantis Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/12/2007 11:26:26 PM   And let me not forget another thing I considered. Rhetorically I ask, “How much will it cost me to get her to put her stamp, her mark on HER new home ?” It is inconceivable to me that she would ever be comfortable in MY old home without a substantial ability to make it HERS. Whether it’s all new paint, all new wallpaper, all new furniture or all three, SHE has to have the ability to make it HERS. I/O Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/14/2007 3:38:53 AM   Harantis: My view is that you have a pretty good overall handle on things, but perhaps might be about to make one small but critical mistake. I sure did. LOL. Make sure your plans and programs have a degree of flexability. She will certainly outline what she wants to do on this or that subject, but the upheavel of relocation may change her mind. She was going to start on this or that thing at the 4th hour of the third day and suddenly she tells you she doesn't want that anymore. DON'T PANIC. She IS still the same woman. Go with the flow. Your visa question is better answered by USA citizens, but I do know there is some criteria about this. Get that information, allow some time for delays etc, then talk with her and AGREE on a date, if possible, buy the tickets early and she has that sense of security in her hand without any nasty imagination triggered doubts in the back of her head. I think this is a MUST. You must get involved with her family and make them yours also. You would if she was a local girl. It's a no brainer really, but you'd be surprised how easy it is to forget this and effectively isolate her from her family. Bad move. Dont worry about the Borsch LOL. This is the hallmark of each Russian woman. Her Borsch is individual. Learn to love it whether you like it or not. LOL As for other food, I am fairly easy going when it comes to food and in the first instance I was happy for her to buy things in the supermarket which she was familiar and confident with and gradually over time localise herself a little. IMHO most of these things can be handled fairly easily. Some things, I have never been and never would be prepared to compromise about. That is the challenge for every couple. Again. consistency is the key to success. This also IMHO is the key to instilling confidence. Consistency. Just remember, that there will be a time when she just needs to withdraw and be sad for a little time. I can tell you, it scard the shit out of me when I found mine curled up like a baby crying on the spare room bed. The first reaction from me was to think that she deserved much better than to have to tolerate me and I wanted to pick her up like a baby and take her home to Russia to her mother. It just about tore my guts out. She didn't want me near her and that made it harder still. I am pleased to say that within an hour things had changed completely, but it was terribly frightening for me and I had nowhere to turn for advice. The bottom line was, that when all was finally talked out, she was SIMPLY SAD. No more, no less. Just keep it in the back of your mind, because it WILL happen when you least expect it. It's normal. You must expect and in fact DEMAND the support of friends and family. If you are not important enough to them to have their support, "Kick em to the curb". Another area I have failed badly is in Russian entertainment. Get Russian DVD's a CD's from Russia. Find others who can speak Russian. Why? I speak 3 languages with some degree of confidence, but OMG I get so tired when I need to do this all day and then of course I want to relax in the evening and watch a movie or the news. If it is in one of these other languages, it is just so tiring. Try it and you'll see. Do it 7 days straight and see if you are not exhausted by the finish. Mother tongue is always mother tongue, period...!!! Russianising you:. Just let it happen. Isn't that the thing which attracted you? She'll do that soon enough...LOL. She MUST bring some comfort items from home. Knick Knacks if you like. How many? As many as she wants and some more if possible. The thing which amazes me in this area, is guys marry a lady from another country because they are looking for something different and imediately she arrives they make every effort to convert her to a local. Why bother? Go marry a local if that's what you want. Just watch out for the superstition thing. Mine is not that way at all by Russian levels, but many are and there is lots of little customs you need to understand. One example is whistling. It means there is no money in the house LOL. Very frightening for a Russian lady who is feeling insecure. I don't know much about this, and others will advise you much better than I. I guess if there is one point I'd like to impress on men in this pursuit, it is this. Russian women are great homeMAKERS but I have never met one yet who is a homeBODY. Most love to work and socialise and they are dammed good at it too. In my view, many of these ladies are much stronger than our local ladies. They are very detirmined so that ain't gunna stay home and attend to your wimms and fancies. If you want a pup to lick your boots, go buy one, they are quite cheap and available at most pet stores. :-) How much will it cost to Russianise your home. Dunno LOL....Lots...:-) When you get serious, get her involved in your home from day one. Plenty of photos and let her see it as the real deal. Show her how it is, not how you'd like it to be. I think rearranging a house is one of the most enjoyable parts of a relationship. Don't worry, if you find a decent Russian woman, she will be as mine claims to be. "I is very Economic" LOL. Secretly somewhat debatable at times..LOL Her biggest fear and risk? No brainer really. Whats your biggest fear? She arrives and is not the person you thought she was. Same for her. If you are not the man she met and fell in love with, then there is going to be little chance of success. As for the resident bitchs on here who wish to belittle these matters, I simply say, check back in after you have lived with a man in another country for a few years. :-) Harantis, go find you mate soon. Don't try to get it too perfect. Be who you are from day one and let her fall in love with the real deal. FWIW I/O Annika77 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/14/2007 4:29:33 AM   Harantis and I/O is the same person??? danny3777 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/14/2007 7:13:22 PM   Annika, Do us all a favour, go give your boyfriend a 'blow' for Valentine's :) I/O Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/14/2007 7:29:03 PM   Martin_Uk: You must really hate that boyfriend.:-) I/O Annika, as much as I dont like the comment, I am beginning to think it is correct, that is, all babies are born boys and they cut the dicks off the stupid ones before they leave hospital. Cycleserg Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/14/2007 11:49:47 PM   Harantis and I/O This is one of the most useful threads I have read. Thanks for the good advice. We need more like this. harantis Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/15/2007 12:18:19 AM   Cycle, Thanks for the kind words. But what are your thoughts on the topic ? I'm legitimately interested in other perspectives. I/O Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/15/2007 5:36:53 AM   I also am keen to hear other thoughts on this subject, as it is never too late to learn and improve. One thing I have come to understand throughout all of this is that in an international relationship, more than ever, one partner should never complete the other partner or vica versa. Each should compliment or enhance the other but never complete. There is a very fine line between independence, interdependence and dependence. None of us need a partner who is dependent on us and the interdependence factor can quickly blur with this. Interdependence is a growing factor in any sound relationship and this IMHO should be the aim of an international relationship from very early on. Again, IMHO the best way to acheive this is to build independence from the outset. It is all too easy to try to do everything for our new partner when she first arrives. IMHO this is a big mistake. Difficult to avoid, but nevertheless a mistake. It is ultimately damaging to her self esteem and can be very suffocating for BOTH partners. I feel that everything should be geared towards her INDEPENDENCE. I suspect many are afriad of this, because they fear she might leave them. If that fear forms any part of your thinking at any stage, then stop right there and the sooner the better. Don't proceed hoping it will improve, because it won't. If you have a fear of failure because she might become too independent, then one of two things is very much ammiss. Either she is not the right person for you and is giving you subconcious reason to feel this way, or you have deep issues you need to resolve within yourself for other reasons. Either way, this is a clear direction not to proceed to marriage. Some invest so much in time, emotions, travel, resources and money into an international relationship only to actually discover some of these things at a very late stage, then simply because of their massive investment, proceed to marraige. It seems like a no brainer, but it is surprising how difficult it can be to be pragmatic and make the hard decision. However, if anyone finds themselves in such a situation, they MUST make that decision for the betterment of both. It is a very tough choice in an international situation, but this caper is not for the weak or faint of heart. You must figure out when to hold and when to fold. If you don't, you are a train wreck looking for a place to happen. I/O nasfan6 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/15/2007 6:56:45 AM   Harantis She can depart and visit as soon as you file form I-131 and it is approved. Also, I would advise when she does arrive to file for her social security card. It just saves a bit of grief for some things. Some of the topics touched here are interesting. The language one is really a good one. Network ahead of time to find other Russian speakers in your community. Also she has a network of friends from this forum whose husbands used to post on here. She speaks with some of them almost daily. I have to really agree with her, as much as I enjoyed visiting Ukraine it was good to hear an English speaking person. So we have the dish network Russian speaking channels. So she bounces between English speaking and Russian speaking. It gives her a feeling of home. Also the personal touch of the home is important to her. I wouldn't reccomend doing what I did, but she needs to make it hers. Remember she has left her culture and her home 5000 miles away and she needs to fill the feeling of being dislocated. If she has the feeling that the home is hers and she can do what she wants, then her feeling of separation is a bit minimized. I gave her Carte Blanche on the house and she has worked my ass off for the last year. Homesickness, yep they're gonna feel it. It wasn't too bad, there will be moments she will be sad, but it didn't last long for us. I think if you keep her busy, as we did with remodeling the house the way she wanted it, it really gave her a real sense of security and feeling this was really hers. She needs to control things and every now and then be gently pushed to doing things on her own. A few months back, she told me we need to go to the grocery. We was the word. I said take your car and go by yourself I have things to do here. She wondered what she would do if she had difficulty. I told her thats why we have cell phones, it was the same with driving to her English lessons. After 3 trips she was on her own driving there. These ladies are really adaptable, and I figure it is from their lifestyles. Well I didn't she her for three hours shopping for food, and she didn't call. They need their independence along with your support early on. Feb 8th she was here for a year. I was quite surprised how well it has went. I really expected more difficulty in adjustment, but it wasn't bad at all. Detergent is going to be an issue, some medicines is an issue, Mine hates our health care system, because you just can't sit and wait for a doctor to see you. Though she is happy with the quality of service she gets she hasn't adjusted to the appointment routine. For us it has been little things I have had to adjust to. They do things very pragmatic. Mine is detail oriented to the nth degree. I have no problem with the food she cooks and she is an excellent cook and baker. I happen to like Ukrainian food. The only thing she made I didn't like was a goose liver pate'. The only real advice I can give, is listen real close to what she is saying early on. I may be lucky, but this transition for us has been real pleasant. Each day is a new adventure and new growth experience for us. And it's the little things I used to take for granted,now I do stop and smell the coffee. Your Reply: Your name:   New Registration Password:   Forgot password?   refresh Code:   Russian brides > Main Forum > Asking her to give up everything for me
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