I just happened to be cruising another website. In the FAQ section they had a discussion about dress. If it wasn't already evident to folks, here's what the website had to say .....
Dress nicely when you come to visit - bring along a good suit and tie and some fancy shoes. A lot of night clubs and other entertainment places (if you are planning to visit them, that is) require formal clothes to enter. Russians dress very nicely in general, so your average jeans and a t-shirt will not do if you want to impress your lady.
I think it's all a case of one guy trying to outdo the other guy, to show off in front of the ladies.
Accepted that one shouldn't wear a tee-shirt but one may see how the lady likes to dress in her profile photo(s) and dress should be a matter of discussion in letters. I can just picture a guy turning up in the heat of the summer wearing an expensive suit and tie and the lady standing there in her jeans and tee-shirt :)
I laugh at these 'pricks', not you harantis, who try to tell other guys, other nationalities, other cultures, how they should date a lady, it's an individual's choice.
I cannot but agree with Martin. As many of you know by now :-) I recently dated a girl in Ukraine. She dressed pretty casual, I did the same and felt perfectly comfortable. By the way, we also went to a night club. We both dressed kinda jeans and t-shirt. Anybody wearing suit and tie in that club would have felt awkward.
I am not sure about the US, but in Europe you can hardly see anyone wearing a tie in the streets, restaurants, night clubs, even offices where some formal attire is required. A tie is definitely an out-of-fashion item. You can leave your ties home, guys. Your suitcase will be a little bit lighter, and your lady will not explode with laughter at seeing your neck pretentiously wrapped up in a tie :-)
You all make me smile when you display almost complete ignorance here. I suspect that most of you have based your advice on your exposure to perhaps two or three different locations around the FSU. You gotta get in your head that you are looking at 25% of the worlds land area and a vast array of cultural and social differences from place to place.
As recently as a matter of weeks ago, and going back through a decade or more, I have noticed things change somewhat, BUT and here is the BUT, the dress standards of the women and people you will want to meet in many areas of Russia and the FSU are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay above and more formal than western Europe, England or the USA. Sorry guys but Harantis is a bit mislead with suits being necessary but the guys in their Polos and jeans stick out like dogs balls in many areas and then they wonder why they get shafted right left and centre.
Yeah, sure the clubby areas of Kiev and Moscow and few other high tourist traffic locations have gotten pretty casual, but the very vast majority of other cities have not. I've probably been to as many places up there as most ever will and I ALWAYS take a tie. I seldom wear it, but I ALWAYS take one. Suits...no forget them. Stick with decent middle of the road black or dark slacks, a range of plain colored button down shirts and decent jacket. Shoes/boots.....Henry ford stuff here, any color as long as it is black.
For sure, colors among the men folk in Russia are coming in now, but look around a decent cafe or restaraunt and you'll see more plain colors than anything else.
Go with my suggestion and you can get into the top theatres when she wears an evening dress, and you are not out of place when she is in jeans. (Just toss your jacket) My view is this, I will never be Russian when I am there, but I can slide under the radar most of the time and I find I simply don't have the security problems and other hassles others complain so much about.
Harantis is partly right when he says dress to impress, but don't try to dress to wow. Short, very short haircut, dark slacks, plain shirts, maybe a jacket, black shoes and the sunnys and you'll slide under the radar pretty good. She'll be comfortable in any situation with you and you are off to a fairly safe start. I take ONE pair of shoes now, the ones on my feet.:-) 2 pairs of slacks and a range of shirts, the obvious necessities are your own choice, one decent jacket and one PLAIN sports/bomber type jacket. I happily do 3 weeks out of a suit case 22" X 15" X 10". (Approx 35-40 pounds including gifts) Bit of hand washing in the hotel room or apartment keeps you fresh and clean and it is simply too easy.
Dress plain and let HER do the wowing as and when she chooses. Traditionally and I think it applies now, it was always very poor form to over dress compared to the lady and even poorer form to under dress. Who said being a guy was the easy part? Clueless idiot I think.
is this all or we gotta wait for lesson #2? :-) I wasn't writing about clubby areas of Kiev or Moscow. I was in Mariupol. I have been to many places in several countries in eastern Europe and never felt uncomfortable because I wasn't wearing a tie. Actually, wearing a tie was the least of my concerns. And in any case I think that, if ever happens that a lady dumps you because you are wearing jeans and polo, well, probably that lady was not worth the trip. I suppose that this can happen no more frequently in Russia or Ukraine than in Italy or the USA.
Did I say you ahd to wear a tie? Did I say the lady would dump you if you wore jeans? You'd look just fine trotting off to the Moscow theatres in jeans and Nike's ...yeahhhhhhhh right. BTW, you say very few people wear a tie in western Europe now.....take a walk in Zurich.......more ties than cute arses there.:-)
Zurich represents Zurich, certainly does not represent western Europe.
"the guys in their Polos and jeans stick out like dogs balls in many areas and then they wonder why they get shafted right left and centre." I never found such an area. Maybe you got shafted for some other reason?
"You'd look just fine trotting off to the Moscow theatres in jeans and Nike's ...yeahhhhhhhh right." I never suggested it would be a good idea to go to Moscow theatres in jeans and Nike's.
This thread has become a yawn. Anything more interesting, guys?
from experience i have found that ladies in Ukraine prefer men that do not wear any pants(underwear to Americans) underneath their trousers. and they have the utmost respect for a man that has a pocketfull of condoms with him at all times.
The likes of you mouth off and contiune to display your lack of substance by trying to side track these threads and again, did I say Zurich represented all of Europe? Nope. It was you who made the claim about Europe and the tie thing. BTW I notice a lot of suits and ties in Amsterdam, Hamburg, London and a few others :-) But then again, I mix with a certain standard which don't include phucwits. Not suprised you are yawning. Yawning is the way the body tries to increase the oxygen intake. Fairy logical when the anal muscle is beginning to choke you. 'Sway it is.
FWIW it is not so important how you dress to meet the lady, everyone has their own idea about that and it is personal choice within reason. The advice I have tossed in here for the reader is simply designed to help you slide under the radar and fit in as a near as is practical to the local scene in general. It has proven to work for a good number of years. Take it or leave it as is suits you.
My dictionary (a very good one indeed) cannot help me in understanding "phucwit". I suspect it is an insult. Anyway, I do not mix with anyone whose English isn't good enough for my dictionary.
wear what you like.......I/O's advice was meant as a pointer to avoid standing out like a sore thumb,and thats generally good practice in Ukraine/Russia etc,you usually find it a lot less hassle not to mention cheaper.
The biggest fools are usually the ones who condemn advice without thought.Travel anywhere in the FSU and watch how the prices change as the locals suss you out.
Yep I agree.........poor words used,although even you say "This thread has become a yawn. Anything more interesting, guys? ".
It may be of interest to some?
The point being that all advice has a use for someone,unless it is very obviously wrong,in which case beware because the flamethrowers can be ruthless on this forum.
It's refreshing to see someone who can read. How, when and if you dress to meet your lady is entirely personal choice, but there is a whole range of other factors that go with these trips.
The fact that close friends, business associates, family and later myself have been involved in Russia and other areas surrounding for the last 30 years, of course means we would know nothing of how to avoid the problems so many seem to encounter.
It is not dissimilar to the Texans of 20 years back who came down here and stood out. They got hammered. These days it has changed and they have learned. They are now among the most loved and respected of the overseas vistors.
There is simply no downside to making some effort to live and act as the locals. More often than not one can slide under the radar and find a lot more of the real deal.
BTW this forum is fairly sort compared to some. :-) You should have been around in the old P/L days. :-)
your mention of Texans brought a smile to my face,as I remember disembarking at Borispol and making my way outside with my wife to get a taxi.Which I hasten to add she negotiates ALL the time,and does a damn good job too...:))
There were 2 Texans??...maybe,but shall I say traditionally dressed american gentlemen (stetsons and all) literally fighting off the cabbies outside.The competition for their business was at the very least frantic.
Incidentally I've been a fairly frequent visitor to this forum for over 4 years in all,and seen a good few come and go too.
Family life keeps me busy these days so postings are a lot less frequent than they were.But a knowledgeable member is always a good sign.
BTW my one refusal to conform is those damn shoes,glad the locals don't look at my feet too often!!....:)))