Having been to Russia and the Ukraine a number of times I feel well qualified to comment on the marriage issue. It is very difficult to find a good Russian or Ukrainian wife, just as it is in America. Most foreigners are looking for a trip to the US or elsewhere for a paid vacation among other things. When you throw in the trips to the mall to buy everything from panties to designer jeans (which follow them out the door on the way back to their boyfriend back home who doesnt mind if his gal porks some dude just as long as she brings cash into the picture). These women are raised differently, and have a totally different perspective on life which is: Do everyone before they do you! If on the other hand, you want to bang some luscious chick for a year its not a real bad deal. Just don't get too attached!
I thought I'd made myself very clear Monada - I don't agree with making judgements, and I don't condone this topic's title. In many of the posts on this forum, three very important words are missing...
"IN MY OPINION"
That's all any of this is; just a bunch of opinions. There's a lot of sense in what Travellerva said, but it's something of a generalisation. It will work for some couples, maybe even for most couples, but not for everyone. The best thing in a relationship, and the best thing on this forum, is to keep an open mind, consider all points of view, not be scared to talk and to listen. In my opinion, of course ;-)
Been to Eastern Europe a few times myself too (six or seven - I lose count). I'm convinced (sad to say) that a good many of US MEN who are looking for wives in the FSU have a few screws loose that made us unsuccessful with women in our own countries. And those of us will be just as big a failure ih the FSU.
Even those of us wth moderate means are seen as rich by FSU standards. We RELISH that. We eat it up. We play it for all it is worth and build our entire relationships on that. Then having found a shallow girl who loves our money (as little as we really have) we get upset when she wises up - and just as shallowly goes after someone else. HOW UNSURPRISING! How perfectly natural. How bizarre it would be if it worked out any other way.
There are BEAUTIFUL, HONEST, INTELLIGENT women available in the FSU - but they aren't going to come calling when you simply hold out your wallet for bait. If you want a good FSU woman you have to establish love - not financial dependency.
Why do we think we can use the difference in our incomes to CATCH a girl - and then act so surprised when she leaves us for someone richer?
I have two years time in Russia and the Ukraine. The place is rough around the edges, and it certainly rubs off on the women. There are some very wonderful ladies over there who certainly would make good wives, but the transition to a fast paced American society may be steep! I enjoy the countries and the people because I see the soul in the people: they live hard. I have always been treated with respect by everyone I work with over there, but I am on guard for possible "scammers" looking for a free ride. I may make trip #9 this fall but I'm not sure-I'm very busy and need to protect my investments like a hawk.
I was in Kiev for a month last year and worked through a lady who lived in Minneapolis for 8 years. She did a great job for me and watched my expenses as best she could. I would highly recommend her if anyone is interested.
Its not really a debate where - "He who has spent the most time in the FSU wins". We've both been there (many times). We've both made observations.
Its DIFFICULT to compare the behavior of an FSU lady versus a western lady regarding her likelihood to leave us based on money - simply because of the difference in circumstances.
Case in point: I'm 49 (for another 8 days anyway....). I have a beautiful 27 year old girlfriend. How concerned should I be that she might leave me for a wealthier guy, once I bring her to America? And is she worse in that regard than a typical American girl might be?
Lets tear the question down into pieces. Lets look at the population of typical beautiful 27 year old American women I am likely to attract similarly. Population size? ZERO. Absolutely ZERO American women of similar quality would I have a chance at.
Therefore (fortunately or unfortunately) it is my "foreign-ness" that gives me a chance at all. My citizenship, my (reltive) uniqueness, my income - all of those other things.
Now if only keep it at that level - if my only attraction from her are those things listed above - then I shouldn't be surprised if she finds another better provider.
But if I make a REAL loving connection with her - she will never leave me. EVER. As no one will be able to provide it better and there will no need to look further.
Those thigs (income, citizesnhip etc.) only give me a CHANCE - where I would never have a similar chance with a beautiful 27 year old American lady. If she doesn't fall in love with me - for real though - if we don't evolve to the next level - we will not form a relationship that will stay together when I bring her to America.
Its as simple as that.
You cannot buy a lady or win her simply by means of your citizenship, and expect it to last. You have to have what it takes to make her fall in love with you FOR REAL. If you don't have that - you have nothing.
I met nice Australian girl. She had nothing. I gave her security and many good years of my life. No matter how much money I earned she always wanted more. Eventually she wasnt being fulfilled. She decided to move on and do better by herself.
She is now moping around being depressed because she has found real life a bit more difficult than she expected. Married again and was divorced in 4 months.
I have 19yo Ukrainian girlfriend who in Australia would make a good living as a model. She doesnt ask for anything though I give he a lot. She is studying for a degree and is focussed on having a career that will provide herself a good living without worring about me.
I guess moral of story is find right woman. Reality is that there are more opportunities to find younger more beautiful women in FSU. It is also reality that young beautiful women are high maintenance. If you dont have the brass or the balls give up the chase.
I strongly disagree with the thread starter. Like many here, I have a few trips under my belt, and that behaviour is certainly not the norm that I have observed.
Yes, yes, yes, in the FSU there are the women that are just "shopping", the "professional daters," the scammers, the time wasters, the dreamers, the losers, blah, blah, blah... but guess what - those same women exists in EVERY COUNTRY in the world. There a a LOT of women like Mondada out there - in every country.
I find women from the FSU endlessly fascinating and like Jetmba, I have ZERO attraction to women in the West (in general) for the very reasons he states.
Pick the wrong one (in any country) and you will live in regret - but pick the right one and live "happily ever after".
Oh yes, and Monada can flame away. Makes no difference to me.
Wow!! is all I have to say. People are the same no matter where you go, men and wemen alike. From reading this post I feel like I have been steriotyped and labeled as one of these westerner men and I would be happy to remove myself from this country and give up my citizenship, move to Ukraine or russia and hope to never be refered to as "A Westerner".
I am not a very smart man, and I don't have alot of money, but what I do have is a heart, and love, and that is the most important thing you can give to some one. I have no oppinions about "wemen" each is diffirent and each has thier own desires. Why must us men, who have been stabed in our hearts and have it torn from our own chests, go around descriminating wemen from anywhere? Not all wemen are the same, don't forget men are the same too. Not all of us, not every one. I have met ladies from both sides who have left for what ever reasons and have stayed with thier husbands. PLEASE, lets not put up such barriers between these two worlds, there is nothing to be gained from it, but so much to be lost.
There are two people in a relationship, it takes two to work, and two to destroy it, I hate to say this, but to the men on here who have lost everything and thier very hearts, I can relate and understand, but please, do not put such foul labels on these wemen. Not all are like this, but some are, you will find them everywhere. Now, men, you are just as responsible for your marriage being torn appart as they are, not in all cases but in some. I am sorry you have gone through that, but do look on the good side, won't those 6 years some of the best years of your life? I was married to a woman from Utah, and she was a great woman, but we had our diffirences. I spent two incredible years with her, and what happend between us is between us. It was painfull and i was bitter for a while. But I have learned to forgive her as much as myself. I know I did many things in our two years that caused our marriage to crumble, and she did her part to. We all can learn from these experiences, and we all can chose weather or not to make the best of them, or make the worst. Just because she was from utah, doesnt meen they all are like her.
I would be honered to give 6 years of my life to a wonderfull woman, even if it ended in a painfull disaster like has been desribed on this post.
I would be honered to meet Monada, write her and get to know her, as any woman, american, russian, Ukranian or from anywhere in the world.
I do not judge, I do not steriotype, and I do not holde grudges. This post has given me insight and has caused alot of distate to myself. I am trully discusted to be counted among the men of this world, who do not give us descent men a good reputation, I hope I can be the best man, and be the best husband and father I can be.
peterpanny: With an attitude like yours you have an excellent chance at success with an FSU woman, so long as you do not fall into the potential trap.
You are rich (most likely) by the standards of MANY FSU women. And some will be attracted to you INITIALLY simply for that reason. If you have what it takes to move your relationship with your lady to the next level (mutual love and respect that is NOT based on your western income) then you stand an excellent chance of succeeding.
But too many guys foolishly fall for the girl from a poorer country who shows them any interest whatsoever. They don't build on the relationship (maybe they are incapable, maybe they are shallow). They bring the lady to the west, and guess what.... the lady meets someone else who is RICHER! Since it was all that was attrating the lady in the first place, she moves on.... and the guy is devastated.
There are WONDERFUL, SINCERE, INCREDIBLY BEAUTIFUL LADIES in the FSU. You just have to be aware and find the right one. (She's out there!)
*laughs a bit* Jetmba, I chose peterpanny because I love pirates and the peter pan movies, catoons too. I have to have a little fun with it, I have many friends who call my "panny" I plan to dress up like Peterpan, and Jack Sparow the pirate for costume parties, and maybe I can find a cute blonde who will be my tinkerbell or salty woman.*wink* That is one of my silly ideas. I am a fun guy, kinda korky and silly but I make people laugh.
I have been talking to many girls on here, and I have no problem moving to Europe, I think it is a beautifull place and I would love to speek many languages. This one girl I am talking to has no desire to leave, how could you take a girl away from the place she wants to be? I could do no such thing.
Alot of people are hard to understand, and comunication is very important, thats why I am willing to learn the language of my lover, and culture, so I can better understand her. Infact, I would love to live in russia or Moldova or anywhere, why not? I think America is beautifull, but it is such a small speck on the map.
I agrea with you, and there are others, but I pray that I find the right one for me.
that's right u have discussed here, we all r not perfect, i mean men and women...men r searching/looking for what? she MUST BE BEAUTIFUL, WONDERFUL, HONEST, FULLY AND FOREVER IN LOVE and other bla-bla-bla...and of course 22-25 y.o...and some of men forget to have a look in the birth certificate of them - the age difference is sometimes more than 25 years...so, just answer my question - what love or other feeling we can talk about if this pretty blondy/brunet or etc. is starting to look blank and doing all the best to deserve other more expensive presents?????
of course after she will empty the account she'll leave the men..of course she will be bad after that...but that's right! somebody wrote here do not show the real money u have..so, either u stop to put these ladies u want to have in your beds on a false front or just look for a woman who is the same level (and age group) like you....didn't want to offend anybody, it was just my opinion
I never said I didn't do anything incorrectly. I didn't do enough research to spot any red flags. The few I did notice, I rationalized away.
True, this isn't strictly a FSU phenomenon. Plenty of American women have shafted their husbands.
My intent was to dispel the lines of crap about Russian women on the dating sites, where Russian women are portrayed as ...the salt of the earth. The last bastion of old fasioned women who can't find decent husbands because all the men are alcoholics... You have all read this type of hogwash on the Russian women sites.
Just read the posts by Monada. Can you imagine how horrible it would be to be married to a monster like this? Hell would be a picnic by comparison.
At least Monada is honest. My wife thought the same way as her, but she kept it under wraps until the deal was sealed. The old bait and switch. She was beautiful, intelligent and charming, but devious and manipulative. A brilliant con-artist.
Guys, I'm not telling anyone what to do. Just pleading with you to be more careful than I was. I feel like Gomer Pyle at the carnival. I lost my ass and I never saw it coming.
Any women from any country can screw you over if you don't make the right choice or rush into marriage blindly. A 3 month time to marry period on a fiance visa (US K1 visa ) is not enough time to live with and get to know a woman before you have to marry her otherwise she is kicked out of the country.
At least in Australia, the fiance visa ( sub class 300 prospective marriage visa ) is issued and valid for a period of 9 months so you have that much time in which to marry her which is an improvement and been like that since 2002, its hard to get but if you get one for your foreign bride to be, it just gives that more time to get to know her before marriage and if it does not work out you can send her packing before the 9 months is up without the noose of marriage around your neck.
You can't know a person sufficiently by living with her for 3 months before being "forced" to marry her because of immigration rules and regulations..its bloody stupid!
I think all fiance visa schemes should have a visa that lasts for 12 months, 9 months is good start but 12 months is better, 3 month fiance visas are crap!
Finally I start to see some plain talk and common sense on this forum. I rarely return here and each time I do I see more and more of the types of posts here. Not the ludicrous Monada's drivel, trying to viciously defend the indefensible, but the truth about these EW marriages. Very, very few of them work. It takes a lot of money to pull this off and you start to wonder if it is worth the bother the first time you are nailed.
I learned and went in another direction. My pocket was picked my heart turned over and it wasn't just once but several times.
Most of these women are looking for money and a better life NOT a loving husband and all that entails. A loving wife will help her husband and worked together with him to build a better life. She will try her best on his expensive visits to convince him of that then cleave to him once they are together permanently.
This is not what I saw. This is not what I experienced. Grasping and cruel is what I actually saw.
I am with MIKE00 all the way.
As for you Jetmba you need to find a new pursuit. This is not working for you as you know full well. Come out of the closet and just admit that you want to get laid with girls half your age and live a fantasy. Do yourself a favor and go to Costa Rica.
I have read many of your posts from past and you add good insights on subjects. Sorry
things didn't work out for you. We are all individuals with different minds and personalities. Just because things didn't work out for you doesn't necessarily mean everyone will have same experience as you. If I want to pursuit a girl half my age, let me have my fun and see if it works for ME, if it doesn't, then its my money and time wasted.
I don't have any idea what and who you were pursuing but maybe that was the problem....maybe she or they were too close to your age...I don't know. I think time is a valuable asset for guys, only it is not used enough, the more time you spend with girl, the better you know her...in my humble opinion!!! It may not work for me in the end but it will not be for lack of trying!!!
By the way, Costa Rica would be a wonderful place to take your FSU girl for a week vacation...only problem is she can't get there. :))))))
Jetmba has some really good insights and philosphies about going to the FSU. You can't charm a girl with money..only the scammers.
You need to be desperately lonely to want to do this, have a few screws loose up there so as Jet says and you really need to stop and do your reality checks here.
Way up the pros and cons here..are you a loser with girls at home?, if yes you will be a loser in the FSU countries too and the Ukraine or Russian girl will see you coming from miles and play you for what you are worth in money and what she can get and then dump your ass!
Money and flashing it around the FSU can't buy love and if you do it, your a dick head and deserve to be cleaned out by the bad girls and predators.
Wake up and smell the coffee here..ask yourself before you embark on the journey to find the FSU women, 20 years younger than you with the body to die for, are you really going to make the grade here for a real relationship.
Use your brain here and not the genitals please!