I'll put my 2 cents in also. I have my own brain and read many of the posts here for over a year. I'll decide
what is good for me and hope no one tells me what is right for me. If David cannot deal with the issues involved in process of finding a girl in FSU, fine but don't try in influence others on what to do. You struck out, maybe there was something wrong with your approach, I don't know. We are all individuals and are looking for someone for themselves. I am embarking soon on my 4th journey and have not found what I am looking for yet. If I stike out in this process I should be looking in the mirror( DAVID). It is easy to blame everything but yourselves. Many girls are hammered for being the problem, true, some are golddiggers or just daters but I put most of the blame on guys.
Trying to buy their way into a young beautiful girls life. The problem is not age differences , it is the chemistry between guy and girl. Since girl has much to offer, the guy better have plenty also and I'm not talking about money, for that is the root of the problem. Guy has to interesting, in shape, funny, serious, and have something back home to offer. I saw one time at an agency office these 2 elderly fellows looking in computer for data base of girls, trying to select a girl to meet. Of course looking at the cream of the crop( looks only). No wonder after dinner they are alone as girl goes back home and guy is standing there alone. What is funny those guys are probably close to me age. Difference is they are out of shape, beer belly, old looking, out of fashion but with a fat wallet. I have heard many guys post here about age differences, as a generalization it is true but
some guys can be in late 40's and have the interests and personality of someone much younger. That is how I view myself ans have been told the same from girls I have met. Guys have to be smart when writing to girls. I have never had a girl ask me for money and have written to probably 60-70 girls and have actually met around 20. The only thing I have seen is some girls wanting to go shopping. That is okay within reason. Try to have fun while you are spending time together. Also, I don't believe in meeting a girl in another city for first time. I was stuck one time because after a couple days it was not working out and I am too gracious to have got up and left. Girl would have been stuck with no money for a few days. Another thing, I am not a beliver in spending 2 weeks with girl for first meeting, if it works out great but more than likely it won't. For 2nd meeting, great go for as long as you want. I used to go for 2 weeks and go to 3 cities and try to meet up with at least 3 girls but it got too hectic. I my new plan is to visit a girl for 1 week each, if it doesn't work out I have a couple backup girls and numbers to agencies. If all else fails, I walk around the city and try to emulish myself with the people and admire the beautiful girls. Fact is, I'll finally share my last trip which was helter skelter.
Great attitude beemer,and in my opinion the correct one for finding success.Sometimes the success can come quickly sometimes not,being objective and resilient is the key.Anyone doing their research and reading or asking....or both,will generally have a lot less hassle and a great deal more luck.
Note I said luck.......relationships being what they are nothing is set in stone but with care,planning and the right outlook your chances improve considerably.
The loser on here fail because they are not realistic......period!
Good Luck Beemer.
David, I understand how you feel. After my experiences with marriage agencies in different cultures it is very hard to find myself wanting to try it again. If I do, it will be on my terms NOT THE AGENCY's.
I agree -- the entire marriage agency scene is not for the faint of heart and there is the stigma that the girl feels because she can not find a good local man (every FSU girls' #1 best option is to marry locally). That point alone has caused a lot of anquish in guys from most of the horror stories I have read in several forums.
Why the unrealistic expectations? Maybe its because some of us really believed the marketing hype: Severe shortage of available men, most are drunks and domestic violence is rampant in their country, poverty is everywhere and a girl just wants a chance to raise a family with a decent man, etc...
At least that is what I read over and over again before I wrote my very first letter. It's got to be the biggest half-truth/half-lie there is on the Internet.
Yes, I warned several forums of things I started hearing and seeing first-hand on my first visit. A rampant explosion of gold-diggers hitting the web like a pretty-girls-club-lottery.
Stories of girls turning to shopping trips and luring guys to come visit them for this new scamming opportunity for the naive. Why send money for visa scams -- just go to the store and they will try and have you buy it yourself.
With all the rampant insincerity I have seen and read, I can't really blame anyone for giving up -- like we said in many topics in this forum, if you are striking out at home, "Please do not think its a cake walk meeting and marrying a girl from the FSU -- IT IS EVEN MUCH MORE DIFFICULT AND 10x MORE EXPENSIVE TO MEET AND MARRY THE RIGHT GIRL THERE THEN IT IS IN YOUR OWN LOCAL AREA IN MOST CASES (99/100)!"
I agree with Gladiator -- There are some real flakes who have such unrealistic expectations about these girls. Then there are some real decent guys who have run up against the gold-diggers and insincere girls -- and lots who won't even show up for the meeting.
Reality check and ball buster time: Listen get it right -- The prettier the girl -- the higher her own expectations on the type of guy she wants to marry ESPECIALLY IF SHE IS IN A MARRIAGE AGENCY IN THE FIRST PLACE! It just seems its the same way all over the world. Phillipine and Thai women are certainly no different... just FYI guys... Colombia was fun -- did the marriage agency thing, but had 1000x more success with just going to malls and seeing and conversing with pretty single girls all over... This is what I plan on doing. I just want to decide on what country to do it in next. I just couldn't find the one that would inspire me for the rest of my life.
Why? These marriage agency systems spoil the girl rotten nowadays -- its the nature of the beast...
I have to remind myself as to why would a drop-dead curvy girl who gets all the attention from local guys really want a normal life with joe-schmoe in a foreign country? Its just not going to happen.
If you decide to stay in the game, just do what the wise who posted on this topic say -- write the girl and BE VERY SELECTIVE! Take my advice too -- and ask the girl and interrogate gently every so often about : NOW WHY DOES SHE WANT TO LEAVE EVERYTHING SHE HAS EVER KNOWN TO BE WITH YOU FOR THE REST OF HER LIFE? Did she convince you? Or are you trying to convince yourself she answered that question completely? AND YES THEY CAN LIE THROUGH THEIR TEETH ABOUT THE REASON TOO... The girl I wrote and met admitted she did... but it took money and flowers and her belief (and mine actually) that I was still interested in her in order to finally find out the truth....
Advice for the unsure who are hopping for a HOT YOUNG THING (HYT) -- dont do this -- Save your money -- make sure you have no doubts about that single question before you fly off to fantasy island. :)
Beemer -- most of these GD girls nowadays expect an older guy to buy their way into their heart -- its more accepted now than ever... just FYI... and a lot of girls want this type of man -- as long as he is halfway attractive to the girl.
I've posted this many, many times. You must remove your lady from the sphere of influence from the agency. One for your own benefit and secondly for the girls. First hand experience. The agency wants your money, not to build a relationship for the girls. The girls, as sad as it sounds is their commodity. The second problem is when the girl does find her guy, the agency ignores her like the plague. Why, she's not an income producer. In my initial writing to my wife, the agency encouraged her to write other men, they told her I was just wasting time and I would never come to Ukraine. Keep those letters and dollars coming. My wife saw through this and ignored their input.
We decided to do everything without the agency. I first told my wife that it wasn't an issue of money, but an issue of what we could do more together. She met me without their knowledge. We gradually moved our communication outside of the agency. It was fun learning to communicate with each other with the divide in our languages, I think in retrospect it helped us grow together more than it was a difficulty.
My wife being a trust but verify person, when we applied for the K1 she heard so many BS stories of what documents she needed from other experts who didn't know squat. She went to the agency to get some clarification and the pretty much showed her the door. Agencys create such a dependency and many are ripoffs. Most operate on the shady side. Maybe you are communicating with a lady and it's sincere, but I will bet money that not all the letters you received is from the girl at that agency. It's a kind of a nod and wink arrangement. 20 letters and maybe three or four might be written by the translator to stimulate revenue. That's why I despise pay per letter sites and tell everyone to ignore them.
Agencys are good for communication in the early stages, but guys you need to start moving the girls away from this if you want to be successful.
Too many guys rely on the agencys to do everything. Hogwash, what can the agency do for you that you can do for yourself, except translate the early letters? Not a damn thing. If you can't book your own flights, do research, find your own hotels, transportation, especially with sites like here, then you don't even need to think about going to Ukraine or where ever in the first place. Too many good guys give out real good information. If you need advice on Kiev, Yalta and Mariupol I can help, if you want to know something about Rostov, I'm not your guy.
There are as many scammers in these forums as there are women scamming. Reach down in your trousers and have a gender check, then go with confidence and you will do just fine. But if you expect someone else to do something for you, you will end up on the ash heap of the complainers here.
Think! Why would you approach dating a woman from Ukraine any different than your home country? Unless you think you're going to steal some trophy wife because you have a few bucks, then you are their lawful prey!
Couldn't agree more about getting away from agencies Nas......unless people are too unsure to strike out on their own,rather than be babysat by the agency..(for a good buck of course).
So much info is available on the web there really is no excuse.Besides which there are plenty of people on this forum who can advise on a wide range of places,and reading carefully can easily sort the doers from the wannabes.
Women from Ukraine....or Russia or just about anywhere else in Eastern Europe aren't some alien species.....they're women,albiet witha different attitude to western women,but women all the same.
Use the grey matter,and ask........ask lots.....most here would not refuse to help a newcomer.We all had to start somewhere and if I can ease someone path along this road,to prevent making some of the mistakes I made then all well and good.
I read that is good idea to have personal cotact (by telephone) as soon as possible and avoid agency interfering. But what if a woman gives me in her first reply her telephone number and asks me to call her, I didn,t have to ask for her number. This girl I "met"at "Elena,s Models", and a friend helps her with tanslation, she speaks a few words English but there is personal contact. She asked me one time if I would help her with English lessons (financial, about 40 EURO each moth). I polite refused and explained to her that I will not sent or give money before there are seriouse relations. If relations will develop in a seriouse way I support her if she wants learn Dutch.
I thought that I would never hear from her again but after a few day,s she wrote that she understood me and that she accepted what I decided.At this moment I don,t know if she is sincere or that she wants to win my trust to start shopping scam when I go to Lugansk. I know that in FSU culture men pay on a date and that is oke, as long as I remember not to let her scam me.
I am not sure about her because she told me that she knew agency which rent appartments (how does she know?), I told her I found appartment myself because I want appartment close to the city (she knew appartment close were she lives in one of the suburbs). I told her that we must think off the possibility that we will not like eachother and therefor I want appartment close to the city. Again she told me that she know agency who rent appartments close to the city. I don,t know if she want to be helpfull or that she is involved in a scam, anyhow I again refused polite and told I feel more comfortable if I make arrangements myself. Now I must wait how she will respond to this.
Yup -- agreed. Get the hell away from the agency as fast as you can. They are not there to make sure a guy succeeds. If the girl is brand new and their major money maker its almost a conflict of interest to see her succeed with you. Get it? That girl is making them money when she gets off the website, they lose their cashflow with her.
Also, in most cases if you depend on a translator you most likely won't be getting anywhere regardles. I had tons of personal entertainment from the moment I got away from having to depend on a translator. It's about the only way to bond with a girl who has never used a translator before. Having some third person there can become more than quite awkward to say the least (and very expensive!) especially when you need them all day because you have to feed them and pay their way everywhere too...
But is it worth it? That's relative -- listen to these guys and get away from the agency and their translators if you can, but if you can't because the girl is unsure -- then that's a warning sign altogether.
If you don't have a lot of spare cash and the time to do this, do not do it. Because if you are successful, there's a lot more money your gonna be shelling out to get her home...
Honestly? It's a total crapshoot, but if you never had a chance to speak with a stunningly pretty girl before - give it a try once and learn for yourself what we are saying all along -- just make sure not to get down on yourself and have some fun in case that dream girl is a nightmare girl like my first girl was... the one I wrote for 6 months, twice a week... and I thought I was more than quite experienced with Online dating...