I am 40 and reecently divorced, I am relatively good looking and in shape. I have been traveling to Latin America ( Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Guatemala and Belize )for over 15 years and have a home in Costa Rica. Now I want to go Ukraine since I am tired of the Latin women. I prefer a woman who is educated ( this does mean in USA ways), attractive ( and wants to stay that way) and not have the tendancy to get fat before age 30.
I have read a few travel books on the Ukraine and have another to read about their country, life and culture. I have also read several articles in re to avoiding scams. I speak no Ukraine or Russian. I have spoken to a few Russian people here but get mixed answers on my travel concerns. My x brother in law which we are still close met his wife 6 years ago and 2 kids later on Bride.Ru but he is kind of useless excpet his wife is very excited about translating for me.
I have been on this site for a month and a half. I have been corresponding with several women most are between 21 and 28. I have had to nicely decline many under age 21. I actually met a young from this site in person that was already here (USA) and flew her to meet for 5 days. She was ok but almost 20 years younger than me and had NO persoanlity, she did speak perfect English and was intelligent, but not for me.
My concerns are:
Is this site legit or do they send letters out for the pretty girls?
how do you know which girls are real?
they answer my questions ( I put little things in to trick them to see if they are actually reading )
they email me somtimes up to 10 letters and never ask about me about financial status
1) none of these girls seem to have their own email addresses ( is this common?)
2) they say they do not have a phone ( is this common?)My Russain friends will talk to them for me
so how the hell do they plan on meeting me ?
31/2) is the way the women look on this site how the general population looks
3) why do some girls say get an apartment or they can help me get an apartment in their city( hard for me to believe theyw would write me many letters ( our letters never talk about love etc as that is BS until after you meet) just to make a little commission
So I though about just getting a plane ticket and flying there and having the travel agency book me a room for a few nights in Kiev and then venture out.
Then maybe travel to Kharkov and Nikoleav as most of the girls that write me are from there.
I do not mind blowing the money for 12 days of fun but will I be able to find enough peopel who speak English to help me get form the airport to the hotel, from the hotel to night clubs to go out, etc.
4) then how hard and expensive is it to travel from city to city. I read by plane is best unless you havetime to do overnight trains etc. In the regional airports do they speak English?
5) does anyone have hotels or apartments , and /or local honets dating/marriage agencies to recommend in Kiev, Kharkov and Nikoleav
6) what about me not speaking the language? Is this a major problem. I have been to France and I cannot speak French at all. or am I screwed without some dates set up
7) is it difficult to meet attractive women while you are there at resturaunts, markets, on the street and in clubs at night?
8) In the mentioned cities are there any places that Americans hang up if help is needed?
, any clubs receommended in these cities.
I this is a lot of questions but I am sick of emailing these girls when they tell me no phone, I am like WTF are we doing this for?
Is it a waste of money to pay for Fiance.com phone service to me it seems like a scam. I do not need them to translate I just need to girl to have a phone.
It is ok to make fun of my questions and I will probably go without much of plan anyway I just prefer not to pay $300 a night to be comfortabel and secure but will do if need be.
I was planning on going there for 12 days mid to end of March 2008 is this enough time to visit 3 cities. I am not trying to find a wife on this trip. If it happens so be it , but I want to have fun and I want to make this a regular trip 3 or 4 times a year.
HI I did what you plan to do and was a waste of time and money.
The ladies are not dying for a men. I have traveled the world and I do not have problems traveling alone. I was in Kiev for 5 days stay at the Four Seasons and there you can meet lovely ladies for fun at the bar and aloud to bring them with you, if you find one nice and she feels like she may go with you next day eat and have a lot of fun, free charge, I was lucky and she was a dream we spent time together, yet I knew she was a hooker. I did not pay, but got her some gifts that I had with me, like a nice gold neck lace a perfume and a copy of a Prada bag.
Same in Odessa althoug a lot better the lady I meet spend the three day with me and stay with me also at the Odessa hotel she and I had chat and talk, but she was like you said 22 me 45 at that time was very emotional and did not work, I travel to Nikolaev for a day and very dissapointed, run down kind town ladies lovely but after all the effort I chat with few.
I hire a personal driver and car in Odessa and Kiev, for the first days and the ladies will preffer to be alone.
I was planning to go to Poltava and Lugansk but after my first trip i gave up.
I spent over 10000 dollars, air travel from Kiev to Odessa and private car to Nikolaev and Kherson, the ladies from Kherson and Nikolaev never showed up. So be preper to be alone or have a second plan.
I think stay in flats is easier but I was once in trouble in Tunisia and I prefer to pay hi end. I usually fly bussines class but flight from US to Kiev and back is about 1800 regular/seats, Kiev to Odessa and back 300 private car and driver about 100 a day, meals, clubs and other funn other 100, hotels Fours Season about 300, Odessa hotel about 200
I recommend you listen to the guys here they are wise and great, I am only sharing my mistake.
I followed recomendations and second trip I went with a lady and travel from Kiev to Istanbul she is so lovely she is 32 from Poltava a lawyer, and i wish she forgives me, I had travel before with a lady from Mariopol 21 and she thinks i am just looking for sex and refusing to meet me again. Learn from others mistakes and save a bundle, do not give her great gifts you can buy sex but can not buy love.
Yes, this site is legit but that doesn't mean to say that all of the ladies on this site are legit. Compare it to buying a second-hand car, it could have a full service history, low mileage, one previous and careful owner yet it could breakdown as soon as you get it out of the showroom.
To answer your other questions:
1. If you want personal email addresses then you're, in the main, on the wrong site. fiance.com deal mainly with affiliate agencies who ladies correspondent via, if you want personal email addresses then best look elsewhere.
2. Bollox do they not have a phone, 90% (ish) have mobiles, they just don't want to give it to you for one reason or another.
3.1/2. Depends where you are looking.
3. Some ladies offer to help in an apartment 100% to help you as a foreigner visiting her in her land, others are trying to rip you off, it is for you to detect.
4. Most internal flights route via kiev thus, let us say, Odessa to Simferopol would probably be via Kiev whilst a taxi might be quicker and indeed cheaper. Fuel prices have put taxi costs up somewhat but if you prebook online then you'll probably not get ripped off.
5. Have you ever heard of 'Google'?
6. Language not such a problem providing you are with a language speaker whether it be your lady or an interpreter.
7. Yes and no, depends on the place and how drunk one might be :)
8. Kiev, TGI Fridays, O'Briens Irish Pub for starters, regional cities not such a choice, if you want to hang out with Americans then best stay at home :)
That is probably the easiest way to get your questions answered. At the Kiev airport- English? You will have a whole passel of English speaking taxi drivers hounding you like puppy dogs trying to get some of your business and money.
Most places you can find someone who knows a few words of English.
First time you may want to consider hiring someone to guide you but may be best to make a phone call and discuss this with someone there. I will send you a pm with some contact info.
Gator....you need to read more on this site. From your questions, you are too paranoid. Reading too much into russian girl thing. Your cities are far apart, expect killing a day to get to southern ukraine. My thoughts are to have several girls already lined up in each city. I don't like going to agencies to find girls...they are strictly daters. If you are going for fun, your spend plenty of $$$ on meetings. I use ukrainefare to set up almost anything needed from transfers to apts but there are plenty of others available. Kiev is a very big city, stay near city center, so you can be near all. I can recommend an agency there. I am familiar with Nikolaev, lots of girls and i like odessa. They are about 2 hours apart by taxi. One hour flight from Kiev to Odessa. Speaking language would be a tremendous
help. I don't give much hope in meeting girls on street or bars. I will be in Odessa around 8th of April, if your around let me know, me and couple friends may go to nikolaev for a couple days.
I think a plan of some kind would be helpful. You can't just walk around and ask about things.
I cannot respond to your questions about the women on this site, but I can share something I know about the RW (Russian Women) in general and about traveling to Ukraine and Russia.
Some of the information you have obtained is true. The first true thing is that Russian women are different fro those in Costa Rica, for their approaches to life, people and their future are different. I think that most of the very beautiful girls who are younger than 25 would gladly flirt with nice-looking foreign men, but they will be very picky about finding a partner for marriage. Russian women are very serious about marriage. Even a girl who spends her young years flirting with men, seems very easy going and light-minded, and seems to be just obssessed with her own self, will take marriage cert seriously and it won't be easy to "conquer" her heart.
Well-educated, smart and beautiful women are desired by too many men, but each women can only choose one. This is a universal thing.
Then, there are a number of things one should know about Russian women in particular. I'll gladly tell you what I know, but I need to make many postings here then - there is ireally much I can tell. :)
Just a short note about traveling to and about Ukraine. You can read FAQ pages at the site discover-ua.info , and hopefully, some of your questions will be answered.
Traveling to Ukraine without a plan would just be more expensive. No doubt, you will have great experience there, but it may be quite costy. I met an American man who dared to go to Lugansk (an Eastern Ukraine city) in October, and was scammed for $3,5K in two days. He called to my friend on the third day asking to assist him in leaving Lugansk for Kiev asap. The girl who had corresponded with him for half a year "who was a real angel and never requested for anything" as he said, managed to "flirt" him for 3 thousand just in one weekend.
Don't intend to scare you away, of course. Just telling this to make you aware that dealing with smart girls requires some different approaches...
1) these girls doing what they are doing,, most do.
2) these girls, show me some without a phone, some have two.
yes a majority are good looking.
3) chances are they are making money out of it, Russian price is different to tourist price.
4) prices are reasonable, if staying at motels there's usually someone willing to help on desk to get you where you want to go, by car or whatever.
5)first trip you really just want to go and get the feel of the place,, prebook a trip around Ukraine or whatever. example no one speaks english at train station ticket office.
airport don't know.
8) no its not a major, interpreters are available everywhere and there's enough english spoken.
7) very approachable.
8) need help for what, safer then new zealand, but maybe not your wallet.
if you are going to do a few city's try to go for longer then 12 days, the place can be a little intoxicating more ways then one,, and don't trust agency's, I'm not saying don't use them but take them with a grain of salt.
yes the way you are emailing has a lot of time wasting about it, and there are many time wasters.
whats real,, well you could define this a little more,
what really are a lot of these girls after,
they are after something but not necessary you or me.
as in your financal comment, theres many other ways they, them, or who ever,, gain from all this, its a changing market
I guess your story about the chap being scammed for 3 and a half thousand dollars could be true, but it just just defies logic-what did the man do to lose that amount? give her his credit card and pin numbers? some details on this scam incident would be helpful.
I wish you luck in the FSU. You'll meet some nice people and see a new country. However, the majority of women in Ukraine are not interested in leaving their country. Life in Ukraine really isn't that bad.
Ditto David USA.
I have a woman who came to my home here knowing her for over a year.
Stayed with her in her home town twice and a third time in Kiev. (Go there its an awesome city)
Came over on a fiance visa with a view to marriage. Loved being here and being with me.
But she has gone home now after deciding she couldn't leave Ukraine.
This decision was made after much soul searching on her part.
Sure life is better in Europe or USA...mostly... and maybe only for the time being... but that is only depending on your perception. There is more to life than...stuff.
These girls may not have much by western standards but they get by.
In the end she has a greater national identity, family values, closer friends than I have.
All this remained in Ukraine while she was here. I have a good standard of living here, I'm a decent bloke and treated her with integrity and respect...(her words, not mine)but it broke her heart to tell me that it was not enough.
Kirk.....did you have conversations with girl about leaving Ukraine and what did she say?
Maybe looking back there was something that was said that could have given you some idea as to what outcome might be. When I have this conversation with girls, if they say, ' i think I could live in another country...or...I am open to living elsewhere', chances are she is undecided and probably will not leave. Some weight also is on guy too, maybe she doesn't 'love' you enough to leave her home country...just some ideas.
As to what I look for in a girls answer about leaving her home country, only one is positive, ' I will live in husband's country, no matter where that is'.
One last thought, some girls are looking for a certain a lifestyle that would also convince themselves to leave. I am taking to a girl now that told me early in communication that she has dreamed of going to USA her whole life, chances are high she will one day be in USA.
Yes, we had conversations about leaving Ukraine. I had an inkling of what the outcome would be when she said "what if I don't like"?
That got me thinking that she already had doubts. When she got here and I was at work she was alone and the isolation was more apparent. I didn't go overboard trying to make it seem like all roses. That would be a mistake. I just let her know that...ok..this is what it will be like. The fact that she was able to communicate on pc with her friend at home probably made her feel even more isolated.
Sure she doesn't "love" me enough. But she does like me a hell of alot...just not enough.
Funny... she said her dream was to go to USA...but not to live there. (I'm UK).
That ol saying "be careful what you wish for, it might just come true" could certainly apply to her and a lot of others.
Anyway I don't want to hi-jack this thread with my story. Maybe in the end I just don't cut it. But I don't think thats the case.
These girls have a network of friends and family that we in the west don't seem to have. It's a very big part of their lives. And its a wrench to drop it all and go live in a place where you to have start all over again.
Kirk...yes I agree family and friends are close but sometimes there is something inside that longs for 'more'. I hope to find the girl that longs for 'more'. My family is very close( latin culture) but when it comes to living our lives we agreed that finding hapiness with another will lead us in many different directions. I do understand
about going to another culture and language. Some girls can have patience and understanding that there is an adjustment period...either that or waiting till green card comes( sad but true)....
Don't worry about hijacking....any info here may help somebody...so any thoughts and feelings on things is good.
There will be plenty of guys that may go through some thing as you, so this will give some thoughts.
My sister used to live in Spain and I used to travel there 3 or 4 times a year back in the late 90s. I met a beautiful, intelligent girl about 3 years younger who was the vp for marketing for a bank there. She traveled to the US a few times but she would always tell me to move to Spain and live forever because she loved it there so much. I made 3 times the money she did and knew my business was growing at 15% a year and maybe I was too young and stupid to settle down. A few years later I married the wrong American girl ( wrong for me). When the girl in Spain found out she told my sister she would have moved here for me eventually but she wanted to make sure that I loved her enough that I would move there for her. As she would be giving up a lot and would expect the same for me or she was worried I did not love her enough to make it last
I have also dated women from several Latin countries but they will move because its only a 3 hour flight back home and they just don't seem to care as much.
Oh well we all live and learn. If I marry a foreign woman I would be completely committed to embrace her country and culture as my own and if I did not move there now it would be our goal to live in both and eventually own property there. ( I know not to even look at real estate there being an American with no true connections, I have read up on that).
Thanks anymore advice would be greatly appreciated. if anyone ever wants to travel to Costa Rica I will be happy to advise.
Thanks so much for the site ,discover-ua.info it has a lot of good info and good rates for an interpreter service.
I find most of the women strong, honest and a fiesty. Most even if we decide to be friends tell me to contact while I am there in case of needing help. And the 20 year old I saw still calls and writes even though I told her too young but friends is cool.
I tell you every girl I have corresponded with on this site has been nothing but nice and no one has asked for a thing except for 86374 / Inna Uzhakina
who keeps asking me on the phone to send her $500 to a travel agency as she has a business visa and she will pay the other $300. I keep telling her it is on the way, on the way on the way, send me a copy of your passport , letter from your employer with address, supervisor anema nd number and their website . I cannot believe she keeps writing me. For me it is like a trip to Vegas if I am stupid enough for the scam I probably deserve it, but I will try to have some fun. Inna, She won't write it but in telephone conversation email code. Just be careful , she looks hot and maybe for real. Just ain't feeling it.
Good for you Gator,
You sound a relative newbie to this FSU malarky but already you seem wise to their scams, what a thoughtful lady, nothing in writing to provide proof, just verbal, one day one of them will come up with an orginal scam, that business/student visa crap has been around for years :)
I guess your story about the chap being scammed for 3 and a half thousand dollars could be true, but it just just defies logic-what did the man do to lose that amount? give her his credit card and pin numbers? some details on this scam incident would be helpful."
Thank you for asking about the details of that scam-story. The poor victim of the Lugansk scammers is a great guy - a well-educated, calm, very open, sincere and very kind person. Unfortunately, with these qualities he, who might be a perfect match for another well-bred, honest and kind woman, had to become a victim of a group of smart but shallow-minded people.
After the guy called to my Kiev associate from an unidentified phone number in Lugansk, we had to investigate what was going on very quickly. He was calling to say that, by his third day in Lugansk, he had lost his phone, his romance was over, and all of his money is gone; so he would like us to help him get on the first flight to Kiev and then to assist him in changing his New York flight ticket for an earlier day. We did not know the details of the story then.
We immediately contacted our Lugansk associate. As our US guest could not tell us the street address in Lugansk, our associate had another phone talk with him, and managed to guess about the apartment location from his description. Our associate met the poor gentleman on a bus stop outside the apartment, took him to the airport and helped him to get on the evening flight to Kiev. I remember I even spoke with our company lawyer that day, to ask for his advice about the situation, for some episodes of it sounded like a detective story.
The story is long, and I'm afraid, that 4-page long story will not be approved by the forum moderator. So I had to publish it on my personal site, at http://www.du-counseling.info/articles/AntiScam-Stories/Another-Scam-Story.html
You are welcome to jump there and read the details. It is VERY educative.
Irina Thank you for the link here to your web site. It is certainly a very interesting and shocking experience that this man had in Lugansk.
I can see how Lugansk has got the bad reputation it has for scammers,though i think this man in Lugansk was a bit naive with parting with his cash and i think he could have taken some other safety measures before meeting the scheming scammer ladies.
Some other interesting stuff on your as well that i have bookmarked and will read late when i have the time.