Had a very interesting second meeting with my lady last weekend, very successful on a personal level for both of us but events took a very interesting turn when she told me that she was actually a marriage agency owner herself. She had not told me the exact nature of her work up to now but she could see that I was getting suspicious about her evasiveness about her "job" and decided to come clean. She told me that she was nervous about telling me in case it scared me off (as it had done on a previous occasion apparently).
Anyway ... as a result I have some interesting insights to offer.
Basically she runs an agency that is affiliated to many of the pay-per-letter sites including Global Ladies and Anastasia so it was very interesting to get her insights onto this and her perceptions of both the men and the women involved. So here we go ...
* The agencies get $1:50 per letter.
Interesting as it is a lot less than I had supposed, and certainly doesn't make it particularly worth while for agencies to split fees with "honey trap" girls.
* Anastasia are have introduced very stringent anti-scam checks.
Apparently they are aware of their poor reputation in some circles are are trying to combat it by introducing measures such as random phone calls to girls on the site to verify that they are real. This includes asking them questions about men they are corresponded with to ensure that they are actually reading and responding to letters themselves. Anastasia and GL both eject one or two agencies a month on average for "foul play" of various sorts. Actually my lady said its getting to the point she is quite worried that she will inadvertently put a scammer on her books and get banned as a result. This is a big deal for her as ejection from a big portal such as GL or Anastasia would be financially ruinous for her.
* 15 years is maximum realistic age gap for "love". She said she doubted that a girl would genuinely fall in love if the difference were any higher although of course not all are looking for "love" just maybe a stable lifestyle.
* FSU women expect gifts as part of courtship. Apparently this is a deep rooted cultural expectation because local men will go all out to spoil a girl especially in the earl stages of dating. A few modestly priced presents of perfume and cosmetics and meals as nice places are sufficient though. She said that she tries to educate her girls on the cultural differences i.e. that we tend to spoil women when the relationship develops a little, but that even so a man risks putting a genuine girl off if he balks at spending "a $100 on a bottle of perfume". She said the downside is that local men neglect their women once the courtship period is over and this is a big factor in why women are looking elsewhere in the first place ...
* The vast majority of men only initiate contact with the top few % of the most beautiful women. Not a big surprise here I guess, actually it was a little embarrassing for me as my lady is most definitely a "top few %"-er herself but I explained that I wrote to her initially because I though she had chosen to send her intro letter to me (when in actual fact she had not, at the time she was registered with another agency and had not yet started up her own). Needless to say such women are going to be very very picky.
* Many of the girls, genuine ones included, have local boyfriends, and they assume that an youngish affluent attractive man coming visit them will also have likewise back home (so I guess most of you lot are in the clear on at least one of those counts :-) ). Well I need to dig a bit deeper on this one to find out how this works as I was a bit taken aback by this revaluation. Of course my lady was adamant that this didn't apply to her and I believe her since she is a busy mum with a young son, but ultimately I don't care so long as she is serious about me in the long term.
* It is a big putoff for many of the girls to find out that a man is seeing other women on a visit. She said that yes, she understands the economics and logistics of the situation especially for people coming a long way and so do many of the girls but on an emotional level they still don't like it.
* All business in Ukraine is crooked to some degree. Another big cultural difference, everyone on the "take", going all out to rip everyone else off. She said that running an honest business in UA is almost impossible and one of the reasons that the big agency portals like GL and Anastasia are having big crackdowns on rouge agencies.
Well there is probably more that I have forgotten but I'm sure theres enough there to start a healthy discussion :-)
One word of caution Bassuk. I assume this is the lady you identified in another post. If she does not know what you are posting I would generically ask her if it is ok to write about what she is telling you. If it is I would allow her to read it and approve of it before posting. If it is not you better consider the cost of her finding it.
Of course many women are labeled scammers because they accept gifts and the relationship does not work out. From 8,000 thousand miles away it is easy for thoughts of being used to creep in when everything is innocent. I would still contend that there are more women who are victims of men than men that are victims of women.
Thanks for your concern but I don't think she would have a problem with me discussing it, she knows I contribute to these sorts of forums, if anything she would probably be glad that more men were aware of many of the issues. And no I havn't (and dont intend to) disclosed her identity - she isnt one of the scammers I have "outed" on other threads.
This is a subject that often leaves men confused. It is drilled into our heads that if a lady asks for money she is a gold digger or scammer. Men often transpose that to mean that a lady would not want to be given anything from us. This is absolutely not true.
The thing many men also do not realize is that most all women crave attention and gifts but the size of the gift is not important. Typically men view the their gifts by value hence the more expensive the better but a woman typically views hers by the frequency so sending 3 greeting cards may get you more points from her as sending one notebook computer.
I would venture to say that very few of the men on here have received hard mail from their lady. It gives me a cold chill to go to the mailbox and have a letter there from my lady. I assume it gives her the same pleasure to get a greeting card, post card, or photos from me. So I make it easy for her. When I send her something I always enclose a return addressed envelope with a Ukrainian air mail stamp on it so she can send something to me. I send her something at least once a week sometimes twice. It is only 94 cents postage and when she receives it I know immediately the next time I call her.
Well I'm pretty sure my lady doesn't have a local b/f so the issue is moot for me. However when it comes to the crunch I'd rather date a girl with a healthy apetite than a nun, even if means that the former needs to occasionally look elsewhere becuase I'm not around for a month or so.
To be honest I havnt really bottomed out what "boyfriend" means in the original context that my lady used it, whether they have someone serious and regular or just casual encounters.
A different take on the 'should we spend/shouldn't we... this is no different from blighty, i have always been provider for girlfriends in UK, ones i have lived with/dated, or even just met while out on the town, its what men do, spend on and spoil women, hell i've just had to pay one off which was a kick in the proverbial nuts. I have just returned from Ukraine and in actual fact all of the friends i have made there, look out for me totally, in fact totally the opposite to trying to rip me off constantly, simply the nicest people i have ever met...
>Bass I agreed with everything you wrote, having asked a lot of the agencies these hard questions while waiting on something or someone. I do know that yes there are certain types of girls that date local men and use agencies to land the "Big Catch". They get lonely and do date. One of the previous penpals I had met and discarded as being psychotic and narcissitic wrote in her Russian blog about sleeping around with a local rich Ukraine guy... all the while still in an agency. Mind you, not all girls are of this sort.
I recommend to EVERYONE writing a girl or having met them and have returned home to MAKE SURE that this is not okay with you if they date other men.
A real girlfriend will remove herself from the agency profile and correspond directly to you via a translator sending you her translated letters (for an outside fee). If she is still on the site, she is still keeping all her options open. I have met girls that immediately offered to take their profile offline to prove their sincerity after only one meeting and did it.
Re: Honey girls
I have heard rumors agencies pay girls to write, and have written more than one girl that says she isn't serious about the outcome but writes every single day as if it were a part-time job... but I never have encountered this or met a girl that is paid for any letter first-hand.
>BigTed I agree, it is expected to court a girl by offering gifts. Perfume is a perfect gift and if you really like the girl, offer to buy her one to take to her best-friend, sister or mother (allow her to chose which one). If she asks for all three, you can politely say "Maybe another time" and it still be okay.
Gifts are a major reason a lot of these insincere girls DO join an agency. They have seen some girls with new clothes, jewelry, electronic items... and they have the opportunity to behave accordingly based on their own nature and character.
I did have one girl actually decline me purchasing anything for her, but I wasn't attracted to her. And other girls try to bring their friend along as you go shopping so you can buy both of them things (the worst sort of play & prey girl).
You aren't going to buy a girl, but if you behave as an old-fashioned gentleman, you'll get their attention very quickly. If your a cheap bastard, they'll keep dreaming of the old-fashioned gentleman, especially if its in their profile... they will see each day as a good indication of what type of everyday life they are going to have with you based on their own dating experience with local Ukraine guys who just want to have sex and leave them at home while they go out with their buddies and get drunk and play with hookers.
I too think that stories of agencies employing "professional letter writers" are exadurated - there just isn't enough money in it (even by Ukraine standards) to make it worthwhile unless the agency do it all themselves. Most of the money on pay-per-letter sites goes to the site, the agency get relatively little (about $1.50) - not enough to make it worthwhile splitting it with a girl unless shes going to be sitting there all day writing letters.
..but if they cook up a 100 letters are week and do prewritten drafts or templates and change only a few things..blank spots for your name, the canned form letter its not that much effort and a 100 fake canned letter can yield $1500 a week for them, not a small amount in Ukraine.
Yeah they make their agency happy, but I think if word ever got out an agency is paying for a girl to write, they agency can get dropped real quick by the big sites. It'd be listed as a scam agency and reputation is becoming a lot more important as they seek more fresh clients.
Scam agencies are like weeds, as soon as they are found out about or get a bad name on the net or with major site affiliates, they will die off and be reborn with another name and look but it will the same shady mob running them.
In Ukraine/Russia and United States where a lot of the off shore agencies are owned, agencies disappear and more new ones take there place complete with the same library of profiles with a new image ready to rip off unsuspecting men e.g confidential connections based in Ukraine started to smell a bit too fishy and get a bad reputation so it disappeared and reappeared under a new image and hat and renamed itself UA ladies but its the same old mob running it with the same old shit...new name, same old shit and operators!