What you said was "like I said Moldova is on much better terms with Moscow than Georgia, the current governement in fact is the Party of Communists of the Republic of Moldova. "
So you certainly DID say that Moldova was on better terms with Russia than Georgia is.
But what's with your last reference. "...the current goernement in fact is the Party of Communists of the Republic of Moldova. " What does being Communist have to do with being on better terms with Russia? Did you forget that Russia is no longer Communist?
What makes the difference where your wife/girlfriend is from? What is right is right and what is wrong is wrong. I see changes in guys here depending on where their wives are from defending the actions of Russia. I won't defend the actions of tyranny no matter who I'm married to.
It's a slippery slope. You hear the biases come out in these women. If your wife is from Russia or Eastern Ukraine, you can be pretty damned sure she is pro Putin. Surely the Georgians started this problem. That makes for some lively debate in my house. Though little do they know that Russia had been massing troops at the border for months. This wasn't just an impromptu retaliation helping out some poor separatists. This has been calculated for months.
Putin has been the most dangerous man on the world stage for a few years. He wants the power back, he wants the old Soviet Glory Back. The in your face do as we please mentality. I'm kind of for it myself. Let's see if Europe bashes Putin and Russia the way they do the USA. We will see tanks roll back into former occupied territorys. You say not possible? It's already happening. If Ukraine caves, the whole former eastern bloc will cave in. You know what, the US will get blamed because we did nothing to stop it. Russia isn't going to leave Georgia. Not without extracting it's pound of flesh.
Remember Foreign Minister Eduard Shevardnadze. Who was also a president of Georgia, but fell out of line with the Kremlin and they twice tried to assasinate him. This country has been in political turmoil since the breakup. As is most of the former occupied countries are.
That's why you hear these girls say it wouldn't have happened under the Soviet Union. So don't worry about extending runways, or where the Russian 14th division is. It really doesn't matter. What matters is what is being plotted in the Kremlin and will return to the old ways. Get your ladies now, a couple of years from now traveling to the FSU may not be possible. Because it won't be "Former" anymore.
One more thing, Americans are accused of having this arrogant swagger in Europe and the FSU. So who is doing the arrogant swaggering now? They are the ones that have done it for 90 some years, but it's easier to attack the US since we don't want your territories. Wheres the hue and cry from Europe that this is a war only for oil? A war to help Bushes buddies get rich. An illegal war? I love European hypocricy.
This is along drawn out plan by Russia, interesting fact Russia has been handing out Russian passports to South Ossetians since the 1990,s it gives them a reason then to come to the assistance of fellow Russians.
But at the end of the day Georgia should never have invaded they are not Georgians in S.Ossetia
but are distinctly and ethinically different from Georgians.And I think they will suffer now in the long run. As to Danny and to us in the west we should read between the lines when we receive any updates from the news of course it will be support Russia in the media where Danny is and in the west it will be pro Georgian.
"So you certainly DID say that Moldova was on better terms with Russia than Georgia is. "
Exactly. But I never said they were on "great" terms with Russia. Great and better are somewhat different words. The countries still have issues with each other, but relations are between the two are B.E.T.T.E.R than those between Georgia and Russia.
The Moldova government has a much softer and more conciliatory aproach towards Russia than Georgia. The Georgian aggressive approach didn't work. With elections in Moldova next year the current President Voronin does want to push ahead with European integration now since much of the country wants this and he promised it at the last election. But given the recent events he will certainly maintain the softly softly approach. And no doubt the press release Jetmba posted is a case of Russia putting pressure on Moldova to slow down and forget about European integration.
Also Russia has adopted a different approach to South Ossetia, threatening to recognise them after Kosovo's independence but they have not done the same with Transdnister. Why because it suits Russia to have Moldova continue as is, or to incorporate Transdnistr into Moldova on terms so favourable to Russia itself.
I don't think "the writing is on the wall" and I'm going to need to sandbag my apartment just yet as Russia is going to invade and bomb the country like Jetmba thinks, he hasn't convinced me otherwise. Its more likely Russia will do a Georgia to Ukraine as this is a much bigger prize than Moldova, but still very very unlikely.
"Its more likely Russia will do a Georgia to Ukraine as this is a much bigger prize than Moldova"
So....you'll be much happier if Moldova is THIRD to be conquered, as opposed to being second. Got it. No doubt you'll be slightly less dead if you happen to be in the way of tank fire, if you happen to be in the THIRD country conquered instead of the second - AND if you happen to have nothing against Russia.
"but relations are between the two are B.E.T.T.E.R than those between Georgia and Russia."
I remind you that in South Ossetia there were Russian "peace keepers". That means there was a Russian military presense. But certainly there was no full division.
Again I ask you, just what do you think the Russian 14th Division is DOING permanently stationed in Transdniestra? What do you suppose their job is? Maybe you think that Russia just misplaced them and since there is no border between Transdniestra and Russia they have had to STAY in Transdniestra????
Its alrady been mentioned here that Ukraine has some 23 BILLIONAIRES while the average month income is still around a few hundred dollars. Thr rich are getting richer while the poor are most certainly no enjoying the benefits in many FSU countries.
In EVERY FSU country I have been to there is a similar split in the feelings of the population - those in favor of closer ties with Russia (and a more controlled economy) and those willing to side more with Europe in the hopes of greater prosperity. But where as certain countries like Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania were granted free and unfettered access to the European Union early on - the EU has been having troubles of its own and has been dragging its feet regarding allowing late comers like Ukraine to join.
It seems EVERY FSU country has the same split and the some large percentage of the population willing to rebecome a sattelite of Russia's, if the EU cannot make room for it.
Ethnic Russians are discriminated in a big way - and Moscow has taken note of it. Seems like a great excuse to "liberate" those ethnic Russians by establishing a Russian presense and establishing another "Russian Union" (NOT Soviet Union).
US to use military planes and ships to send humanitarian aid to Georgia....
"The first direct US-Russian military clashes in Georgia are now possible if the Russians fail to give way when challenged by US air transports and vessels heading for Georgia. For seven days, Russia has exerted exclusive mastery of Georgia’s skies, sea and land routes.
Flanked by the secretaries of state and defense, Bush said that Robert Gates as head of the military had already sent the first US Air Force C-17 military cargo plane with humanitarian and medical aid on its way to Georgia. It has already landed. Our military sources report that the US air corridor has a short distance to fly from US bases in Italy and Turkey."
Could you please back up your claims of “Georgians killed (civilians sitting in their apartments in the capital city “ do you not know what happened in the 1st 36 hours inside South Ossetia ????
You are only taking Western Media as accurate truth.
I am not going to repeat what I have written at the beginning of this Post, but I could add a lot more like - film footage, footage shot of the true scene, not South Ossetia footage portrayed as in Gori by the Saakashvili Media propaganda weapon !!!!
How many funerals have you seen going on in Georgia ??????
We have seen continuous funerals showing on RT TV channel. This channel by the way is in English and mainly English employees
You say “the US will get blame because we did nothing to stop it”
Don’t know about that, but a lot of what I am seeing is strong evidence the night of 8/8/08 USA would have known of the pending attack by Georgia and you obviously know of the financial and military backing from US.
As I have said before Saakashvili is in my opinion a very dangerous and unstable man. Russia will not need to remove him literally – this will happen without their direct action. He will quite possibly do it himself in the near future, otherwise the Georgian people will do it in due course !!!
It will take some time and much frustration and perseverance from Russia to get the truth to come out. There will be much resistance from certain Western zones to not allow this to be exposed.
Russia are trying to get NATO meetings now, they will, but not with ease. UN will be shown all that has happened over this past week in due course.
Do any of you have opinion why Medvedev called a stop to the “peace keeping enforcement” so suddenly ????
And not because he wanted to do it BEFORE French PM arrived – just to piss him off, which apparently Sakovy was very pissed !!!
The United States has been providing military and technical support to independent Georgia for almost 15 years. During this period, the overall amount of annual aid from Washington has increased by more than several hundred times, and reached its peak in the financial year till 2006.
It has meant that Georgia’s army was well prepared for an attack on South Ossetia. RT offers a brief history of the preparation by the Georgian armed forces for the war.
* 1994: Georgia received $63,000 under the programme of the International Military Education and Training (IMET).
* 1995: Georgia received $85,000 under IMET.
* 1996: Georgia received $302,000 under IMET. It purchased American military equipment for $66.000. Total: $368,000.
* 1997: Georgia received $312,000 under IMET. It purchased American military equipment for $66,000. It received $700,000 under the programme of the Foreign Military Financing (FMF). Total: $1,068,000.
* 1998: Georgia received $416,000 under IMET. It received $5,350,000 under EMF. Total: $5,766,000.
* 1999: Georgia received $394,000 under IMET. It received $7,950,000 under FMF. It purchased American arms for $19,000. It received $9,227,040 under the programme of Additional Defense Expenses (ADE). Total: $17,590,040.
* 2000: Georgia received $409,000 under IMET. It received $3,000,000 under FMF. It purchased American arms for $3,949,000. It received $575,000 under ADE. Total: $7,933,000.
* 2001: Georgia received $481,000 under IMET. It received $4,490,000 under FMF. It purchased American arms for $5,171,000. It received $575,000 under ADE. Total: $10,717,000.
* 2002: Georgia received $889,000 under IMET. It received $55,500,000 under FMF. It purchased American arms for $3,647,000. Total: $60,036,000.
* 29th April 2002: Pentagon announced the beginning of the Programme of Preparation and Equipment for Georgia (PPEG). The programme was implemented upon Georgia’s request for assistance in order to enhance its abilities to fight against terrorism, in the Pankisi Gorge in particular. The program was planned for 18-20 months. It included special seminars and training as well as supplies of light armaments and other military equipment for the Georgian army. Total budget of the programme was $64,000,000. Also, at least 150 American military experts were sent to Georgia. The Programme of Border Security and Law enforcement, with a budget of $3,200,000, was implemented at the same time.
* 2003: Georgia received $1,184,000 under IMET. It received $6,900,000 under FMF. It purchased American arms for $9,825,000. It received $4,525,054 under ADE. Total: $22,434,054.
* 2004: Georgia received $1,040,000 under IMET. It received $12,000,000 under FMF. It purchased American arms for $7,405,000. It received $2,786,257 under ADE. Total: $23,231,257.
* April 2004: Programme of Preparation and Equipment for Georgia was formally completed. The programme of operation for stabilisation and reinforcement began. It was formally intended for the preparation of Georgian armed forces to be sent to Iraq. The first stage of the program was planned for 18-20 months with a budget of approximately $60,000,000.
* 2005: Georgia received $1,413,000 under IMET. It received $11,904,000 under FMF. It purchased American arms for $32,044,000. Total: $45,361,000.
* 2006: Georgia received $1,275,000 under IMET. It received $11,880,000 under FMF. It purchased American for $106,714,000. Total: $119,869,000.
* 2007: Georgia received $1,235,000 under IMET. It received $10,000,000 under FMF. It purchased American arms for $10,876,000. Total: $22,102,000.
* September 2007: Beginning of the second stage of the programme of operation for stabilisation and reinforcement.
* 2008: $800,000 was allocated to Georgia under IMET. $10,000,000 was allocated under FMF. $9,319,000 was allocated for purchase of American arms. Total: $20,119,000.
Note: there is a lot missing here. For example all the Israeli military 'aid' (which included such things are UAV, modernizing the S-200 anti-air systems), the weapons deliveries (sales?) from the Ukraine (including the advanced 9K331 Tor anti-air complex) and, of course, all the intelligence support and training activities. Still, its the list above gives us an idea of the nature and magnitude of the *official* military 'assistance' which the USA has been providing its best friend in the Caucasus
Does the name - Randy Scheunemann ring any bells ??
For four years, a paid lobbyist for the Georgian government who ended his official position only in March 08, then to become Republican presidential candidate John McCain’s senior foreign policy adviser !!!!!!!!
Obama - why did he speak out on this Geogian/Russian issue - much wiser to have said less and let McCain sink himself ????
Maxirat...I am not much into political issues but since when did Russia begin to give accurate/truthful information on anything. I do know what we are given in west is not always the full truth but I don't remember any western reporters disappearing or their life being in danger.
Being a reporter in russia can be hazardous for your health. Isn't this true? Sorry if I am completely wrong. If I had to trust any information given, I would have to lean toward the west.
I am talking about showing ALL the info and the FULL picture of events. Not just one side and selected info by the west
I believe in looking at all media reporting, but you are not seeing all - simple as that. Do you think I have based this on - fiction film footage - Hollywood acting rehearsal ??????????
I don’t like getting into politic debating and argument either - but I am very upset about what is been portrayed on all Western Media - I am seeing a lot more and its real, and needs to be told !!!
Us sending in Aid to Georgia - huh - I wonder where they are meaning this to go - Tskhinvali I hope. Because I am not seeing alot need amongst Georgian Civilians – yes CIVILIANS --- not military personal, as I am sure there are a few Georgian military personal will need some repairs.
Seems very impressive MaxiRat until you consider the cost of say a fighter jet. While its hard to say exactly how much one costs lets try to put it in perspective. A new F/A 22 Raptor cost $133 MILLION dollars in 2004. All the money you mention about would buy about TWO of those altogether.
So lets go cheaper.
And F/A 18 Hornet cost $28 MILLION in 1994. (But that was in 1994! And doesn't include upkeep).
To the common man - the numbers you expressed above are astounding. For military hardware though its SQUAT!
With all the impressive zeros (as you included above) and just PURCHASE price (not training or upkeep) a Raptor costs: $133,000,000.00 (that's just one).
And 14 years ago an F/A 18 Hornet costed $28,000,000.00 (again just one).
Don't know precisely what Russia's inventor is worth - but if each oth those planes is only worth as much as a FOURTEEN YEAR OLD HORNET (and we know its more than that) - then Russia has an inventory of 1,736 fighterjets worth $48,608,000,000.00 (thats $48 BILLION dollars) versus the lowly NINE jets in Georgia worth $252 million USD.